caulfield12

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 01:26 PM) Yeah, it would really suck if the Sox had a veteran 5th starter at their disposal next season. That would be fine...but the time to make that pick-up is in Spring Training, not out of sheer desperation. If the deal is simply taking Washburn's contract, sure. If it's something silly like giving up Fields/Martinez/Silverio and Poreda, then no thanks.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 01:40 PM) the sox still aren't in that bad of a position injury wise. They're missing one SP. Crede and Linebrink should make it back in the next few weeks. They've been missed, but sox really haven't lost much ground with those 2 out. If the sox don't make the playoffs, will it be because Contreras is done for the year? If the other starters pitch like they have been--with slight improvement--and the bullpen rebounds, they'll be OK. The lineup is otherwise pretty healthy and should be ready to put up solid numbers for the next month and a half. Some people are now lamenting the Griffey trade. Yet it has allowed the sox to rest Thome, PK, Swisher and Dye a bit. Having those guys ready for the stretch run could be key if the pitching doesn't rebound. Well, a 6.17 ERA over the last 23 games from the starters definitely hasn't helped, that's for sure. In some sense, it's amazing we are still within one-half game, if you look at it from that perspective. We've basically been treading water, between 12-16 games over .500, for much of the last two months. If we can stay within 2-3 games before Minnesota goes on their 14 game road trip (starting on August 21st), we should be okay. I am a LITTLE more optimistic about Crede than Linebrink after I read somewhere (suntimes) that Joe felt much better and had exchanged e-mails or text messages with KW to that affect.

Kip Wells was just designed for assignment by the Rockies....FWIW. He had been pitching in relief for them this year, last time he started was last season (26 of them) with the Cardinals.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 10:47 AM) I would imagine Jose will return around the ASB next year, in which case the insurance would be void. I think the insurance works based on the number of games/starts missed. Wells went down fairly early in 2001, maybe six weeks into the season...I think the White Sox ended up getting something in the neighborhood of $4-6 million back in an insurance payment. Now do we want to use that money on paying half of Washburn's salary for 2009? I would guess that Seattle can either take back half of our farm system and subsidize his contract (what ended up losing Chris Young in the Vazquez deal) or we can agree to pay it and give up very little, like the Griffey deal. Typically, JR has always sided with taking the money and giving up talent, but I don't think we can afford to do it this time. Giving up Poreda to save the money on Washburn's contract for 2009 would be a waste, IMO.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 11:37 AM) It sure doesnt help. Poreda trade could be the #1 way one day to make the team better instantly. It could be next trade deadline. You'll want the leverage then, for sure. Ummmm....why would we want to trade Poreda, exactly? Because he throws the ball hard and he's left-handed and someone will give us another Josh Hamilton or Carlos Quentin for him magically? It seems that developing his secondary pitches and having him pitch for the Sox (under Cooper's supervision) would be a smarter move for a team that hasn't developed another starter of their own for a decade nearly (Garland/Buerhle) If we want to develop another starter, using that theory, we should just convert Thornton. He asked to try to start when he was acquired for Borchard, he throws the easiest 95-97 in the AL and his secondary pitches are more advanced than Poreda's, which isn't saying a whole lot at this point.

QUOTE (joesaiditstrue @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 10:47 AM) doesn't matter, unless we somehow overtake 1st place with our record in the AL over the angels, we're going to be playing as the road team in every series. And with our homerun or nothing style... it will be a quick exit. this team's heavy reliance on the homerun simply does not adjust well to other ballparks, and when we don't homerun at home, we lose by large margins (see last nights game) When we don't hit at least two homers at home. I think that particular statistic is both quite dramatic and quite telling. Thome had a meaningless homer late in the game.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 10:37 AM) It doesn't hurt to pick up Ramirez, as we gave up nothing at all for him. But, I expect very little out of him. The situation the White Sox find themselves in right now is looking bleaker and bleaker. We REALLY need to get another, legitimate starter. And we'll probably need to get another reliever, but Ramirez might end up filling that void. Plus, we need Linebrink to come back healthy ASAP. If all of these things happen, we still have a good shot at making the playoffs. When the hell is Linebrink supposed to be returning, anyway? I feel like he's been out for like 3 months. At least 2-3 more weeks, if then...not looking especially optimistic. Is Hermanson finally ready, lol? We already tried Loiaza.

QUOTE (Fingish @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 10:37 AM) My math was based on the previous poster saying that Byrd was a better alternative to get us to September, when we will be able to call up some degree of help for the bullpen, even if it's just picking up the mop-up situations in blowouts. It seemed that the reasoning was someone like Byrd will keep your bullpen from getting overtaxed before expanded rosters. That puts the person who replaces Jose at making around 4 starts before the rosters are expanded. So the question of how deep a starter can get us isn't negated in September, but it certianly isn't magnified, there will be plenty of pitchers avaible to take the unimportant relief innings, leaving our core relief staff able to be rested and ready in the more important games. The point was that going for a Byrd-like pitcher wasn't going to make a giant difference if your only concern was trying to save the bullpen a little bit, even over the two months, if you don't count September call-ups as having any value in saving our relief staff, you're then talking maybe 16 extra innings pitched over two months. If our staff can't handle that much extra load, they probably aren't going to be the guys to take us all the way to the World Series anyways. I think we're already set in the inning-eater category, taking a shot on bringing up someone who could be better than a #5 starter seems to me to have a better risk/reward return on it, as the risk of over-taxing the bullpen at this stage of the season, based on the performance of 1 starter doesn't seem to be all that great, while the reward of (what appears to be Broadway) coming up and throwing lights out for 2 months is a chance to win it all. Well, this is all predicated on how the Indians' GM feels about KW and the Sox. We basically are at his mercy...if he asks for Fields/Poreda (I'm assuming they would already be claimed, at least Fields, not sure exactly how the PTBNL works) for someone like Byrd, then KW would be crazy to make that move. Obviously, we're negotiating from a position of weakness, and that's not a great strength of KW, it's unearthing hidden gems like Thornton, Loiaza, Ramirez, Danks, Floyd, Marte, Quentin, Jenks, etc. With KW's gunslinger mentality, it puts the whole organization at risk that he makes that final move to overreach and finally puts this organization into a 2-3 year rebuilding mode without even getting us to the playoffs (looks like Boston will be hard to beat for the Wild Card, too.)

QUOTE (Texsox @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 09:32 AM) Yea! $10.35 million contract for 2009, last year of the deal. About the same as we were going to pay Jose. Once again, another example of why it would be nice to have a farm system like the Twins...maybe they'll give us Bonser, lol. In all seriousness, the Yankees wanted him after 2005...and they have the first claiming rights, as their record is below ours. With all of their pitching issues (see the recent Angels series, Kennedy and Hughes' disappointment, Joba's injury), I think they might take him first, and they have more options to make the deal work at the minor league level unfortunately. Why would the M's want Fields if they already have Beltre? Unless we give up Poreda for Washburn, which would be a huge mistake, I don't think this gets done...unless the M's new management really just wants to dump his salary on someone else.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 10:11 AM) Ha, what?! Are you assuming the Royals only play hard against us, and roll over for the Tigers and Twins? Put some blame on the team that's dropping games to such a crappy opponent. The Royals really are playing better than their talent dictates....Gordon, DeJesus and Jose Guillen are about the only really solid players on that team, although Butler can hit a fastball, Grudzielanek just kills us and so has Aviles (if he had about 100 more PA, he would be threatening for the batting title...not bad for a career minor leaguer without a position). Heck, even Esteban German has elevated his average about 50 points by playing against the White Sox this year. Esteban German vs. MLB (20 for 107=.187) Esteban German vs. Chicago White Sox (10 for 31=.323) We might be the SOLE reason he's signed to a contract for next year, lol.

QUOTE (Texsox @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 09:52 AM) It seems that it takes catching lightening in a bottle to win a championship. 2005 saw a rookie closer perform beyond all expectations. Doesn't matter who we roll the dice with, the available options are all fraught with more questions then answers and all a longish shots to be productive. Fishing farther up the food chain for a more proven SP will result in digging a hole somewhere else. Here's to getting lucky Yeah, we got Jenks for free...and we lucked out with Hermanson, Politte and Cotts that year...everything just went right. Pods stayed healthy for enough of the season to build up that huge lead. I don't know much about Poreda...but Jenks was consistently ranked one of the Angels' best prospects before he forced their hand with his behavior, like the Rays cutting ties with Josh Hamilton. I tend to think someone like Poreda, or Joel Zumaya, who don't have much in the way of secondary pitches...are going to get tagged. But I'll try to think optimistically.

Send someone (not Dave Wilder!) to Beijing, along with personal entreaties from The Grand Titan de Bronze and Alexei for the best starting pitcher and reliever from the Cuban National Team, and get them to defect after the last game in the Olympics. (Hey, that's the least The Count can do to help us out...and maybe a note from Oswaldo in Spanish or an e-mail from hotmail.com wouldn't hurt). Then they can take some Russian billionaire's "stealth" yacht to the coast of California and ask for political asylum (of course, they will already have been secretly signed by KW, who will announced the Danks and Beckham signings at the same press conference from Santa Monica Pier). I'm not sure what would happen if we tried to book them tickets (if that would be allowed by MLB rules) or what would happen if they landed in an American airport without a proper entry visa. Maybe the Homeland Security officer would be a strategically placed Sox fan. Okay...well, my imagination is getting away from me! http://sea-fever.org/2008/07/17/has-that-s...street-journal/ (for a picture of the yacht I picked out for this secret Sox mission) I like this guy's style...nothing like marrying the former Miss Yugoslavia, Aleksandra Kokotovic..."Russian billionaire tied the knot in Cote D’Azure with lavish ceremony, entertainment and everything luxurious fit for a billionaire wedding reportedly worth £20 million. The wedding featured performances by Whitney Houston, Julio Iglesias, Enrique Iglesias and Christina Aguilera, who were all flown to Cannes on a private jet. Rumours circulated that he even had a church dismantled, shipped and rebuilt in France for this extravagant wedding day. Since there seems little hope for the rest of the season, I thought it would good to think positively at least.

QUOTE (Fingish @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 09:00 AM) By my count, whoever takes Jose's place, will make about 4 starts, if Paul Byrd was able to on average pitch 2 more innings per game than Poreda, that would be all of 8 innings over the course of the rest of the month that he would save the bullpen. My thought being if a bullpen can't handle an extra eight innings over the course of 20 days, then you probably aren't making it to the playoffs anyways. So give me Poreda and his higher upside, rather than the known quantity in Byrd. Sure it's a gamble, but it seems to me that most teams don't do well in the playoffs without taking a chance on some of their kids coming up and producing in key roles, a la Bobby Jenks in '05. I know that one of these days we'll call up a prospect who will floor us with his performance right out of the gate, why not let it be now, when we really need it? Are you sure your math isn't off by a bit? It should be around 8-9 more starts that we have to cover for Contreras...that situation isn't changing in September, it's only becoming more magnified. Yes, we'll have some additional bullpen help in September, but what can we realistically expect of MacDougal, Wasserman, Link, Rodriguez, etc.??? I don't think very much. Those guys will be helpful to save the "A" relievers (Jenks, Thornton, Dotel and hopefully Linebrink) in blowout losses or mop up duty, but I don't think any of them can be put into tie or even down by 1-3 run situations in the heat of a pennant race.

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 08:53 AM) No minor league talent (or very little) means we go with what we got. Oh well, it's not like we didn't know Crede had a bum back and half the rest of the team was aging (fast). If EVERYTHING went perfectly, the Sox were ok, but it's not going perfectly. I don't know what Massett, Richar + player could have brought us in the way of pitching depth, but I'd rather have had that than slow-footed OF depth. Well, I would guess the best we could do is someone who is fatally-flawed, like Joey Gathright. Maybe Rocco Baldelli? We can just be happy that KW wasn't ever very serious about acquiring Andruw Jones or Gary Mathews, Jr. Pitching, pitching, pitching...back in 2000/01, we had "waves and waves" of pitchers on the horizon, and the only ones that "took" were Garland and Buehrle. Think about it...Rauch, Parque, Ginter, Myette, Danny Wright, Brian West, Lorenzo Barcelo, etc. Now we've had two more first rounders (Broadway and McCullough) basically fail to make much of an impact...so it's not a surprise we're in this position, and, no, I don't think Gio Gonzalez was ready to lead us to the playoffs either. Essentially, the White Sox had to have everything break right for them this season...and that was the case for 2/3rd's of the year, with Floyd and Danks pitching better than anyone could have conceived (outside of the front office) and Ramirez and Quentin playing like All-Star/MVP candidates despite both essentially being rookies. While this White Sox line-up remainds dangerous, and has the pitching at the front to make a run in the playoffs if everyone was on fire simultaneously, I just don't see how things can hold up for another 50 games. Over the last two months, I've been looking over my shoulder waiting for the Twins to catch us, yet not believing it was possible, with the losses of Liriano, Hunter, Santana, Cuddyer, etc. It seems they are always better than their statistics...maybe they are due to cool off though, they're batting well over .300 with RISP, which is first in the majors. That's the kind of statistic that doesn't hold up forever. I keep waiting for that young starting rotation to show some cracks in the foundation, but it has been our rotation that has "blinked" first. All that said, we're still only 1/2 game behind and the Twins are about to play the Yankees at home, then go on their longest and most demanding road trip of the year (due to the GOP NC).

I wonder if KW said....well, MacDougal and Sisco didn't work out so well, mind sending me another pitcher just to even things out? Third time's a charm?

QUOTE (BearSox @ Aug 9, 2008 -> 08:40 PM) is that 4 or 5 DP's on the night? Pitiful offensive performance tonight, we blew several opportunities. This game would have turned out much differently had we gone ahead 2-1 (thanks AJ, nice bunt Cabrera!) and gone to Dotel and Thornton.

QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Aug 9, 2008 -> 08:37 PM) That's my next investment- the black authentic Ramirez. Tanyon Sturtze alive still? Bring him back! 3 GIDP for AJ. I remember we had Gil Heredia in ST the same year Loaiza surprised everyone, in 2003. I was actually wondering if KW was going to see if David Wells would come out of retirement for like the 4th time. Arnie Munoz's start in Montreal that Uribe had about 20 RBI's and Willie Harris messed up in the late innings with a bad bunt comes to mind when I think about the future pitching results of whoever we use as our 5th starter. Back to 2001-2004 again!!! Oh, the humanity.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 9, 2008 -> 08:30 PM) BTW, I forgot to say this, but thanks for posting more in these threads. Hey, I'm only in Thailand at 836 am Sunday morning, lol. One thing I do really miss...seeing Ramirez play in person, or at least on WGN. I almost bought a Contreras jersey after the World Series in 05, I think I would spring for the $180 for an Alexei jersey, despite the fact that every time I've purchased a jersey, it has brought on the SI Cover Jinx seemingly.

QUOTE (mr_genius @ Aug 9, 2008 -> 08:28 PM) Any of you know if Griffey can pitch? Maybe put him in the pen Uribe or Alexei Ramirez could definitely get more outs than Boo Logan now. Heck, Jason Dellaero could probably get more outs...Cal Eldred as well. Maybe Ray Searage, too.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 9, 2008 -> 08:22 PM) I think anyone complaining wanted Thornton to start the 7th. I think Ozzie decided with the bullpen's workload and the fact that he needs to conserve Thornton and Dotel for down the stretch...that he was willing to sacrifice this game to teach Boone Logan a lesson and end his White Sox career...I wouldn't be shocked if he never pitches for us again.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 9, 2008 -> 08:20 PM) You know what's amazing, as I take a step back....how quickly the buzz stopped regarding Griffey Jr. 1 for 13 with triples and ground rule doubles falling all around you will tend to do that. Amazing...but he's fading almost as fast as one of the best 2B of all time, Roberto "Remember the" Alomar. Or was that Sandy's nickname?

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 9, 2008 -> 08:18 PM) No excuse to have Boone Logan in there in that spot, none. I know our pitching is thin, but to have Boone Logan put into a 1-1 game in the 7th inning of an August pennant race game is undefendable. I'd rather have put a righty in there, even with two lefties and a switch hitter starting the inning and Ortiz 5th in line. Logan has been the worst relief pitcher maybe in baseball the last 4 or 5 weeks. And now, because Ozzie put him in, we're done for the night. So you're on the record that you would have used Dotel or Adam Russell to start the 7th inning? Obviously, you're not advocating using Jenks (I hope).

QUOTE (Jimbo's Drinker @ Aug 9, 2008 -> 08:15 PM) Consistent starting pitching and get the little things done. Not swing for the fences and dont have a hack hitting 2nd. The odds of beating the Red Sox and Dice-K with Carrasco, Logan and Russell were about 1 in 20. The Twins will have a very desperate Yankees team at home next week (usually the Yankees own the Twins, but not at the HHH)...then they have their longest road trip of the season...24 of their next 33 on the road after two home series (one against NYY) this week. Hey...without Crede, Linebrink and Contreras, nobody should expect the White Sox to hold off the Twins, especially with Liriano seemingly back and healthy.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 9, 2008 -> 08:11 PM) Dear Ozzie...please quit If Russell (he of the 6+ ERA) grooves a 95-96 MPH fastball with no movement and Ortiz hits a Grand Slam, everyone's going to say, how could he put in a rookie RH reliever against David Ortiz. This was a message from Ozzie to Logan that you have to man up and get yourself out of the situation...there's about a 99% chance that is the last we will see of Logan with the White Sox this year.

QUOTE (Jenks Heat @ Aug 9, 2008 -> 08:10 PM) Why are they playing to lose this game? I am stunned by the poor managing right now. Why is he still in there???? This is sad. Ummmm...because Adam Russell facing David Ortiz isn't exactly a high-percentage move. It's easy to manage a bullpen that actually gets the job done (see first half)...but we're looking more like 2007 now, except for Carrasco's fine outing.