caulfield12

This team is really in trouble...even though we could still theoretically make the playoffs on Monday, STILL. We have to do a fire sale on Vazquez and Swisher at their lowest possible value. I wonder what KW will come up with in the off-season to keep the season ticket holders from revolting? Sox Fest will be interesting again. Angry Sox fans are more dangerous than apathetic Sox fans.

QUOTE (Brian @ Sep 27, 2008 -> 06:25 PM) I have done a 180 on OC. I hated him the first few months but he has come around and I like what he said on the radio and in the papers. If he would have run out the ball in the 1st, we would have been leading 2-1. In which case Ozzie could have put in Jenks in the top of the fifth to pitch the rest of the game.

Well, with Farmer lighting candles for Duckworth at the ND grotto and a facing a pitcher in Bullington who I think has never won a major league start (former first rounder), we're bound to put this season to bed and not have to suffer anymore. Maybe the most fitting end would be if we were no-hit on Monday by Garcia and Walker announced his resignation the next day. That's the only thing I have left to hope for.

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 27, 2008 -> 06:20 PM) This might be the most angry I've ever been watching the White Sox. What's the point of getting upset? Very few players on the White Sox are, except maybe AJ. We go into 2008 headed for 5th place I think. I just don't have any confidence in Clayton and Broadway.

I think we're beyond choking. We're just horrible now. Maybe last year wasn't a mirage.

Two six-run fifth innings on consecutive nights.

The famous Vazquez 5th/6th inning collapse. KW has his work cut out for him. He has to find two starting pitchers probably, in a market where that's an expensive proposition. Game, set and match. Disgusting...especially in front of two sell out crowds.

QUOTE (Brian @ Sep 27, 2008 -> 05:49 PM) How did that not go out? Caught it off the end of the bat...didn't have the right sound. The pitch was located up and right over the middle of the plate. Luck.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Sep 27, 2008 -> 05:45 PM) The fact that our manager thinks that hitting Brian Anderson 2nd is a good idea, is scary. I want him playing, he should be a tad further down the lineup. I would rather have Alexei there. Ramirez and AJ are both hitting like crap...and Alexei's not patient at all. I guess it doesn't really matter, one way or the other. Whatever's going to happen will happen at this point. Didn't Carroll hit his only homer of the season again us???

Jackson can't throw anything inside for a strike against the Sox RH batters. But I'm not sure if that will help us...what happens here? Anderson hits a bomb or Cabrera gets thrown out stealing and is decked by Dye in the dugout? So much for that. The old BA is back.

Is anyone surprised to see us looking flat against a guy with a 6+ ERA so far?

Swisher hitting a robust .202 from the right side. Just wow.

Why are they pitching to Morneau when Tolbert is on deck? Well, I guess he ties it up, you give them credit...interesting decision. They pitch around Morneau and maybe face Cuddyer?

If Morneau ties the game with a homer, he deserves the MVP.

Span walks of course, setting up the tying run if Morneau can hit a bomb. I don't like the feeling of this...just like my stupid Hawks losing to NW.

It's just so difficult for teams that are pressing to beat teams that are playing with nothing to lose. The same thing happened with the Royals sweeping the Tigers the final three games of 2006. Which is why I wouldn't be surprised if the Sox lost today again. Tomorrow, you have the feeling the Twins will win for sure.

Wow, I was really hoping the Royals would go to Soria to get Gomez. Nightmares from last week...listening the Twins' feed, I thought they just had a game-tying double to the gap. 4-2 with a chance to add insurance in the 9th, one of the best relievers in baseball in Soria waiting for the Twinkies.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Sep 27, 2008 -> 01:16 AM) Dear KW, Please don't ever do this to us again. Don't put together a team that competes for 160 games near or in first place. It was obviously your fault that Swisher and his worst career year and that Thome and PK slumped for 5 months. All you need to do is sign a bunch of fast guys, trade Macdougal and Wasserman for Chone Figgins, it shouldn't be too difficult, I did it in MLB 2k8 no problem. Trade Bobby Jenks for someone like Carlos Gomez, we have enough depth in the bullpen to cover for him. Enroll in medical school so you can heal our best hitter, bullpen arm, all-star 3rd baseman and starter. And whatever you do, don't acquire any more MVP's or ROY candidates. Invest in fast guys who hit .220, that's where the division championships are made. Follow the lead of those "pesky piranhas" and build a team that scratches its way to playoffs and gets swept every year. Signed, Clueless fan base overreacting to losing. Agree with some of what you say, except for the part about Thome. We got/get about exactly what we expected, and he's actually hitting much better this season with runners on base than in 06 and 07. I don't think Thome is the core of any problem on this team, although he's a convenient target, because we traded fan favorite Aaron We Are the Ones We've Been Waiting for Rowand. If you can get someone like Carlos Gomez and a really intriguing prospect for the infield (3B/SS/2B), you have to give it serious consideration. At his age, Jenks is the best he will ever get...and that's about 85-90% of what he was 3 seasons ago. Unless you're an absolute great closer (like Rivera five years ago, Trevor Hoffman five years ago, Gagne on HGH, Nathan before last month, K-Rod in 2002), then there's diminishing reason to pay $10-15 million per season. The White Sox went through Roberto Hernandez, Bobby Howry, Keith Foulke, Takatsu, Hermanson and Jenks within roughly a decade. None of those players were high-salaried, with the exception of Hernandez. History has shown that teams overpay for closer, unless they are virtual guarantees of an 85% success rate each and every year. With Jenks in 2009, I don't feel that...I think he's due for a difficult season, just a hunch. Same with Thornton, who's best good every other year. History has also shown with bullpen arms that it's best to sell high and buy low...and that consistent performance is difficult to find and overpaid a majority of the time. If you don't at least consider trading Thornton or Jenks, you have to trade Swisher/Konerko/Dye/Vazquez or Fields/Poreda to get anything decent in return. No matter what KW does, there are certainly no easy options or logical moves...before, we had the luxury of an extra starter...now we're down a starter, and 2001-2004 aren't that far removed from memory (Danny Wright, Porzio, Munoz, Felix Diaz, etc.)

But the Twins could say the same thing about winning a start at home with Liriano on the mound. I wasn't expecting the Twins to lose last night, I thought the White Sox had a 50/50 chance of winning. Today, I would say the Twins should lose because of Perkins versus Meche, which means the opposite will happen. Which also means our entire season is riding on someone who is probably looking at his mutual fund ROI rather than being upset like we are at soxtalk. I thought the fan with the "I cried myself to sleep last night" poster had it right...today there were no more tears or anger, just a growing realization or deadened feeling that nothing else that happens with faze me in the least, whether it's positive or negative. There's a 33% we get there, a 66% chance we don't.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 27, 2008 -> 06:55 AM) I think Ozzie is signed through 2012. Unless he says something totally obnoxious that gives JR and KW no choice or unless he quits, he will be here at least until then. Yeah, I know about Guillen's contract. A lot depends on how this season ends. If we lost both Saturday and Sunday (why not Monday to Garcia?) as well, then there would be a tremendous amount of pressure on Ozzie coming into next season, especially with the rumors/stories starting to fly about clubhouse problems and dissension in the ranks. It also depends on Ozzie's and KW's willingness to go through a rebuilding phase. I still think it's inevitable. KW will say "reload" or make a remark like the one about the Tigers when they added Cabrera (Miggy), but there's just too much uncertainty for this team to be anything more than a pick for 3rd place going into next season. Maybe they will go out and get the big fish, Sabathia, and I'll end up quiet for a little while, like in 2001 when we went through the David Wells Experience. The odds of that are 5-10%, same thing with Ichiro and with A-Rod coming here.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 27, 2008 -> 06:49 AM) Are you sure about the Contreras insurance? I read somewhere there wasn't any. I know the Mets have none on Billy Wagner. Figgins is a guy who supposedly is not well liked in the Angel clubhouse, and seems to be constantly injured. Furcal has a back problem. With what went down with Crede, I don't see JR shelling out a huge commitment to him. Hudson is a guy the Sox have admired for years, but he wants 8 figures. I find it hard to believe he's worth that. There's just nothing obvious out there, plus with the Yankees and Mets moving into new moneymakers and the Yankees also shedding $84 million in payroll, if you go the free agent route, you may have to be looking at plan D or E. It will be an interesting offseason. I do know KW will get a real leadoff hitter. I don't think it will be Gary Mathews, Jr., but a name like that is along the lines of what KW is looking at...a player we could get another team to subsidize his contract, whose upside MIGHT still be relatively high. Milton Bradley. Tavares comes to mind, I know most posters here don't like that move. Alex Rios or Vernon Wells. CoCo Crisp. Brian Giles. Abreu. Those are the kind of names we'll see, maybe Michael Bourn Identity. I doubt we could get someone like Lastings Milledge. In past years, someone like Dave Martinez, Ellis Burks, Mike Devereaux, etc. No, not Daubach or Armando Blame It on Jose Rios. What this team needs is a 2009 version of Lance Johnson or Ray Durham to add a little excitement and speed to go with the Cuban Missile.

I would give KW two more years. Guillen's on a much shorter rope. If the team starts off like the Indians or Tigers, I think you have to try someone new (assuming that Konerko, Dye, Thome and AJ are all back next season)...and that Cabrera and Swisher are gone. Then the injuries and clubhouse aren't going to be excuses anymore.

QUOTE (chisoxt @ Sep 27, 2008 -> 04:11 AM) Again, look to KW for blame on the injury angle.....While the CQ injury was self-inflicted, the fact is that Kenny's roster is comprised with older veteran players who historically break down and get injured more than younger players. So when these players get injured, the only recourse is that you replace them with your better minor league players...but.. oops, Kenny did a lousy job of that as well. I think that from a prospect development standpoint, we are slowly getting back on track again, but in the meantime, it's going to be tough counting on any help from the minors...so...the only way of finding help there is to sign veteran free agent talent....but...oops, the Sox budget is already high and there is very little flexibility in 09. Also alarming is the growing amount of 'dead money' accumulating in 09 - Contreras $10 million, MacDougal $3 million, Linebrink $5 million, Swisher $4 million....that's one hell of a lot of money tied up in guys that you cannot count on in 09. So how do you fix this? You do have a nice but small core of good players, but major changes are clearly needed and other than throwing more money at the problems, the options are few. I would give Kenny a one year deal, but absolutely nothing long term. The Twins, with contracts for the likes of Lamb, Monroe, Everett and Livan Hernandez, were actually more "wasteful" than the White Sox in this regard. Not to mention that it was a much higher percentage of their overall payroll than the White Sox, significantly higher. What's getting Bill Smith off the hook for only adding Guardado is the minor league depth that Ryan left him with....Buscher, Tolbert, Span, Mijares, Breslow (picked up from the Indians for nothing), etc. MacDougal was clearly a "miss," but we have insurance on Contreras' contract (about $6.5 million if he were to miss all of 2009), Linebrink hopefully will be back to normal and Swisher will either provide us something different in return or we'll see if he can rebound (like KW did with Vazquez). The contracts for Dotel and Linebrink are a concern, but it seems that spending any money in the FA market on short relievers is just like playing Russian Roulette or craps. The odds of success are better with proven veterans (although this theory didn't work so well for Baltimore, or with teams that gambled on Gagne)...than what we did the last two seasons in our bullpen, which was essentially loading up with former first round draft picks and guys with talented arms and hope that Cooper could salvage their careers magically. KW just needs to be creative...either Dye or Konerko should move to DH (my preference would be Dye), Swisher to 1B (where you hope for a rebound) and then you try Anderson or go the FA route (or get a SS/2B/3B back from a Konerko deal.) The problem is that we have at least three significant issues: 3B, 2B/SS (I'm assuming Ramirez will end up at short), and CF, where Swisher is playing out of position. Our best bargaining chips are Poreda and Fields, yet they both are depth in positions where we need the most help (5th starter/3B) going into next season. I think it might be too expensive a luxury to carry Uribe at $4-5 million a season to be the back-up, and Uribe and Anderson are players I'm not sure you wisely or logically build around, even though they are still much younger than your core in Konerko, Dye, Thome and AJ. You play Swisher at 1B, you have a little below major league average production, very solid defense...it's all predicated on getting a Pods-like (not Jerry Owens) player for CF. Getting Figgins, Hudson, Furcal, etc., isn't going to be cheap, either in terms of salary or talent surrendered. KW has to go out and find someone (like Alex Rios) coming off a down year, but still young, that the club is willing to part with for the right price...a player that doesn't fit on the depth chart due to injuries or one season of non-performance, but major league ready (like Quentin). Maybe we should look at Japan again, it worked for awhile with both Takatsu and Iguchi. Maybe KW will really roll the dice on Ichiro or A-Rod, although both these names seem more like fantasy discussion based on our minor league systems, rather than reality. Abreu's name has been mentioned, and he would be fine, if the price was right and we could move Konerko and put Swisher at 1B and find a better CFer. Then there's always the strange and curious case of Brian Anderson.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 27, 2008 -> 01:01 AM) It's always better to make the playoffs. It's what they play for (aside from zillions of dollars that arguably have changed big leaguers' attitudes for the worse) and why we cheer as fans. We aren't going to make the playoffs, trust me, but it is way better to make the playoffs. Why else be fans or players? I'm surprised with all the doom and gloom you actually want to see the White Sox in the playoffs at all. Well, remember what happened with the Jayhawks in the final game? Did you turn off the t.v. set in the final five minutes or leave it on? I just hope, with all of our starters absolutely gassed, that there are no consequences down the line...look what all those playoff appearances and overuse did to Hudson, Mulder and Zito. Now Buerhle is the only one to put up a really high pitch count, nearing anything in the vicinity of what Baker did to Prior and Wood, and I'm sure he will be there tomorrow to take the bump even at 75%, because that's the way Buehrle is, a battler, a better version of the Bulldog, Greg Hibbard. There was a lot of concern here about 6 weeks ago about Danks and his arm. He went to the coaching staff, apparently, and said he was having some problems...which is one of the main reasons he was given over a week before his last start in KC. Notice the Twins, if they go to a game Tuesday, have already declared they won't use Liriano on short rest, even though they would have to start Blackburn instead.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Sep 27, 2008 -> 02:24 AM) Yeah, they're not good excuses, they're answers, reasons, explanations etc. Losing Q means less protection for the other guys in the lineup. Take Morono out of the Twins lineup, how do you think they would do? The reason we do not have a 5+ game lead right now is due to injuries and injuries alone. The number of games lost due to no Q, no Linebrink, no Jenks, no Contreras, no Crede = well over 5 games. Maybe if we only lost Wise or Ozuna for a couple months, you can say "oh injuries are just part of the game"...but not with those losses. The Twins had injuries, but nowhere near the extent we did. They lost Neshek for the entire season and Cuddyer for a large percentage of it. Actually, losing Cuddyer might have turned out to be a blessing. In the process, they found a player in Denard Span, a former 1st round draft pick (yet another home-grown product) who contributed mightily this season...in many ways, the MVP of their team, even though his individual statistics are relatively meager when compared to the Sox big bombers. But that's kind of the point. Players like Gomez, Span, Punto, Buscher, Casilla and Harris contribute in multiple ways that are not measured by the traditional box score.