caulfield12

Nice aggressiveness we're showing on the basepaths this game...now, if only we had some clutch hitting. Thome on deck to bat for Jose.

Contreras is always so fragile with his stuff and his confidence. Tonight, it appears he's lost the aggressiveness he had his last two starts. When he works more quickly and trusts his stuff and goes after hitters instead of tentatively nibbling, he's a heckuva pitcher. Still, a "quality start" and you shouldn't expect to win many road games with 2 hits.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 19, 2009 -> 07:45 PM) I told you, it's really weird seeing how out of it Jermaine and Konerko seem. I guess it's just age/health issues that are finally catching up with this team...KW got away with this risk for 4 years running. The one thing that hasn't happened is AJ going down, which he acquired Castro as insurance for (also because Miller was/is horrible and there was probably a decision made that bringing up Flowers to play everyday with the eventuality of an AJ injury would be a disaster). Ironic that our oldest player, Contreras, has unexpectedly been one of our best recently...when absolutely nobody predicted or expected it. Looked like a slider/forkball that didn't move and just hung out over the plate...tried to surprise Phillips with offspeed stuff. Farmer thinks that Contreras is tipping his pitches with his glove position.

Why is Konerko taking a 3-1 fastball there and not ready for it? Was he really expecting a curveball? You have to look for the FB 2-0 and 3-1, then he ended up pull hooking an outside slider into an out. Are we last in the majors hitting with RISP, or is it the Cubs? Has to be one of these two pathetic offenses.

Ummm...Beckham hitting 8th balances out our line-up out and takes the pressure off of him. Although you can certainly make the argument that Getz did well for a stretch earlier in the year at leadoff, he's finally found himself again batting at the bottom of the line-up where he really belongs (on a playoff or championship-caliber team).

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 09:52 PM) No way we will take this division "easily." No way. We are wildly inconsistent in all phases of the game. This team is .500 at best and likely to finish about .450. We know we are capable of lousy stretches like that horrible homestand. We have yet to show any signs of putting together a long win streak or stretch of 12 wins in 15 games, something like that. We had a 10-3 string going before we ended up winning only 3 out of the last 11 games on that homestand (after the first win against OAK at home).

QUOTE (tommy @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 10:25 PM) Not sure if you know already but Brandon Allen got promoted to AAA Charlotte. I think we might see him this season. Well, at least Flowers, Viciedo, Retherford, Danks and Shelby will get to experience playoff baseball, theoretically, in September. That team has already lost Beckham, Allen and Poreda...and there's also a "decent" possibility they will bring up Flowers/Dayan/CJ in July or August to AAA.

I think we MIGHT be better off with Fields or Nix in RF over Wise. GASPS in horror, ala Bart Simpson and/or Munch's "The Scream" or M. Culkin after the aftershave burn in "Home Alone"

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 06:54 PM) I think the team can compete, but I am not against moving Linebrink. With that fastball it has to be located well or he will be hit hard as we have seen. I am not sure he can be the type of middle man or bridge to Jenks in the 9th Then why would any team trade for him? If he was available for "free" (with the condition that the team claiming him would have to pay the 2 1/2 remaining years on his contract), would ANY team in baseball do so in today's current economic marketplace? I don't think so.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 05:23 PM) PK's contract isn't as burdensome next year since others are going away. I agree that if you can move it, probably not a bad idea, but KW and the org has done a good job, and gotten a little lucky, so there's nothing crippling after this year Linebrink's contract is definitely starting to look like the worse contract we have going forward. We can't pick on Contreras (who still might be a key, one that nobody expected TWICE now), MacDougal or Paulie anymore. Nor is the Thome contract, which was a very good bargain until this season because of the Phillies' subidization of it, going to be on the books either. I can just imagine if the Peavy deal had gone through...we'd be looking like we were on the wrong side of the Mike Sirotka/Wells deal, and four players short, including two of our most promising young pitchers for the future.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 05:14 PM) The Sox are sellers. If we win and move onto the playoffs it will be because our young players play good. The team isn't going to win the world series and we'll be contenders as long as our starters pitch decently but that doesn't mean we should pretend and make short sighted moves. Kenny needs to be smart and now is the time to move some guys and get our youngsters some experience and who knows we'll still be able to compete and maybe make the playoffs and in that case, it'll be great experience for our youngsters. That's THE argument for why the Twins should win this year after doing unexpectedly well with youngsters after "retooling" on the go with the losses of Hunter and Santana and staying in the race until Game 163, which they still believe they were robbed of due to the coin flip. Unfortunately for the Twins, they've also seen regressions from Baker, Liriano, Gomez, D. Young, Casilla, their bullpen is short an arm or two and Nathan's not quite the imposing/dominant figure he was coming out of the bullpen 2-3 seasons ago.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 03:06 PM) Seriously, I raelize Ozzie made some bad calls, but you do realize the beloved savior all of you guys wanted to put in, Thornton, also failed to get the job done. His job was more difficult than Linebrinks but he too failed. Bottom line you win as a team and lose as a team and the Sox didn't execute on bit. I personally don't care, the club isn't going anywhere and I'm watching games to see how the future of the organization does. I hope we win, but I hope its because of our young guys developing and while Getz had a less than stellar defensive game thats okay because he's starting to hit and figure stuff out and defensively he is darn good. It seems as if Anderson and Getz might end up having the remainder of the season to prove they're everyday players, which many here have wanted. Beckham will get to play everyday as well, leaving Fields (and Nix) obviously as the odd men out. If nothing else, we should know whether those two guys can be counted on for 2010. Ramirez is starting to look a little more clutch, and no longer an offensive liability. Six weeks ago, you couldn't even be sure he would rally and look like a major league regular again in 2009. Playing without Quentin and Thome is another issue...the White Sox weren't THAT good LAST season, and that was with a HEALTHY/PRODUCTIVE CQ. Perhaps we can pull off competing for the entire season without adding pieces at the break (especially if the starting pitching continues to do well), but we're neither as good or yesterday or as bad as today. As you said, we're a team in flux/transition from the old to the new. Actually, it's nice they are still in the race and it looks like we will be playing meaningful games for at least a couple more months.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 03:00 PM) He also booted two grounders right at him. The second one looked like a bad hop, but you have to get that ball. If that out is made, the bad 8th might have never happened. And that's why Linebrink is paid millions of dollars...to pitch over those types of errors, the contract given to him was for one of the best set-up men in baseball, even with his 2.25 ERA after today, he hasn't pitched as if he belongs to be in that category any longer. Unfortunately for KW, he's going to be paid that way for the next 2 1/2 seasons, whether we like it or not...and probably used in that role until he has 2-3 more disasters and has to be replaced by Dotel.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 02:57 PM) Did yesterday not happen? Why would you assume we get swept by the Dodgers (responding to the post you responded to)....? The White Sox have been getting REALLY good starting pitching of late, we've been in most games, and there's not any reason to think with the crazy way this season has gone that we WON'T win two out of three. The Dodgers don't have any competition in the NL West, they're not THAT good. If we're going to look back at any stretch of this season, it's the 4-8 homestand as well as going 2-3 against the Tigers when it coulda/shoulda/woulda been 3-2 or even 4-1 in our favor. If our starting pitching continues to do this well, we could easily sweep the Reds. Or we could be the same team that was wiped out by the A's, Royals, Rangers and Blue Jays at different times this season. The Cubs were just more DESPERATE to win this game...usually, playing that way leads to losses, but they just wanted it more in the end. Once again, this White Sox team doesn't really have any sort of identity yet, and we're 40% of the way through the season.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 02:55 PM) Ozzie f***ed this game up today. I don't know why he's in love with Linebrink now for some reason. Has he been blind for the past month? Linebrink has been terrible. Those two runs in the 8th did us in. If we didn't score those, Thornton comes in and we probably win this game. Getz was also horrible at second today. He made the best play of the game on a ball up the middle by Fukudome that would have scored a run had it gotten through. We could have survived the Lee homer, it was the Soto one that blatantly said "when/how will the White Sox manage to lose this one?"

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 02:55 PM) Ozzie f***ed this game up today. I don't know why he's in love with Linebrink now for some reason. Has he been blind for the past month? Linebrink has been terrible. Those two runs in the 8th did us in. If we didn't score those, Thornton comes in and we probably win this game. Getz was also horrible at second today. He made the best play of the game on a ball up the middle by Fukudome that would have scored a run had it gotten through. We could have survived the Lee homer, it was the Soto one that blatantly said "when/how will the White Sox manage to lose this one?"

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 02:53 PM) Crushing loss Ties the Cubs' biggest rally from four runs down against the Marlins...a game they ended up winning 8-6. We're a .500 team, beating the Cubs two games in a row won't matter in the overall scheme of things unless KW sells off the farm system to improve the team this year, and that's NOT very likely...and probably would not be supported by many here.

It seems the only pitchers who really have balls on this team are the starters and Bobby Jenks when he has the lead. Otherwise, the bullpen looks GREAT on paper but can't get the job done when it's time to put your foot down on the neck of the other team and crush them. We're going to have our moments in the second half and Beckham and Getz will continue to be fun to watch, but we're at best a .500 team.

Have to try something offspeed with Soriano or he will time that FB.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 02:48 PM) Ok...now we just need the $15 million man. Gavin Floyd??? Would have turned out differently had Ozzie stuck with him for the 8th, unfortunately. He has really been on a roll, just like Jose.

QUOTE (watchtower41 @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 02:43 PM) After such a nice weekend in Milwaukee and yesterday, back to the same old bulls***. I hate this team. It's the Cubs/Sox. Almost no victories are ever easy. That's why it's 34-33 Sox over the span of 12+ years. It certainly seemed like it was going to be easy after we added those two "insurance" runs, though. Well, this game imploded pretty quickly...looks like we are determined not to miss our flight to Cincy.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 18, 2009 -> 02:39 PM) I dont care if I should be able to retire 3 batters, as soon as you see that the pitcher you put in is not going to be able to do that, you f***ing yank them. How many games have the Sox lost because Ozzie goes to Dotel or Linebrink first, and then calls in Thornton when its to late. Its not like Thornton has been over used, its just f***ing stupidity. Well, Thornton inexorably gives up multiple runs when he comes into games with runners on base, but definitely you put Thornton into the game against Soto and force Soto to really dial it up. The guy only had three homers all season coming into that AB.

Anyone predicting that Jenks gives up the walk-off if it's a tie game? I hope they use Thornton in the bottom of the 9th if it's tied over Bobby...maybe even Dotel, but definitely not Jenks in a tie game.

Well, you either yank him after the first two batters reached or after Lee's HR there. When you pay Linebrink and Dotel the type of money they're getting as set-up men, they HAVE to do the job. The bullpen is supposed to be the strength of this team. It's obvious that Scott just doesn't have the same crispness on his fastball and pitches in general that he had the first half of 08 before the injury. OTOH, it seems that the White Sox pitching can now keep them in the ALCD race and Beckham and Getz are looking really good, despite the error that was ruled last inning on Chris that was a tough one-hopper.

Well, I would have to say there was even MORE hype about Ventura because of the DiMaggio like hitting streak he had at OSU, even if he was drafted in a fairly similar position. And I think Ozzie's point was that scouts were already starting to see glimpses of all the hard work that Ventura was putting into the defensive side of things...work that would blossom into the best defensive 3B of his generation with the White Sox, even though a few believe Crede in his prime was better. Perhaps part of it is also to shield Beckham from scrutiny for his defense, as we've moved him around already from his natural SS to 2B and now to 3B in the span of less than one year...and he was already well into double figures in errors at Birmingham 1/3rd of the way through the season. Ventura and Thomas were coming up at a time when the only pressure on them was to succeed individually, but not on a competitive team where there was any pressure on the manager (I guess it was either Fregosi or Torborg that season) to compete for the division title. That wouldn't come until the surprise team of 1990 that seemingly came out of nowhere to compete all season long with the hated A's. So key differences: 1) Ventura's hitting streak made him perhaps the most famous player in the country 2) Ventura was allowed to stay at his natural position 3) His 0/41 streak was not juxtaposed against a team fighting for the division crown in a heightened media market 4) There wasn't a 20 year history of failed White Sox position prospects (outside of Durham, Cameron, Lee, Ordonez, Rowand and Crede) 5) Usually Ozzie is "crazy like a fox" trying to defer attention from players and put it back on himself so they perform in and out of the bubble