caulfield12

QUOTE (whitesox61382 @ Jun 6, 2009 -> 11:08 PM) Let me start by saying that it is a good thing that VAfan isn't part of the Sox front office. 1) Sample size - as others have already pointed out, you can't make a full judgement on a player based on 146 career ABs or even 601 ABs (Field's career total). If teams gave up on young players after a quarter of a season, than half of the current superstars in the majors wouldn't exist. Every now and again you get a player like Pujols who comes into the majors and produces from day 1, but most young players go through a learning curve. Point being, using either players career averages and assuming that they are going to continue to produce at that level over the remainder of their career is simple foolish. Let both players play on a regular basis and see what they can do. 2) One dimensional offense - have you been a Sox fan for the past decade? If so, than you will know that one of the Sox biggest flaws has been a one dimensional offense that relies too much on the HR. I know their overall offensive numbers look solid, but what is hidden in the numbers is inconsistency. The Sox have a tendancy to win 11-2 only to come back the next day and lose 2-1. Overall, the numbers look reasonable (in that scenario the Sox average 6 runs a game), but the overall result is an inconsistent .500 calibur team. I am not suggesting that the Sox need to get rid of their power hits and fill the lineup with .300, slap hitters, with good speed, and no power (especially in USCF), but they need some versatility and the ability to manufacture runs in those pitching duals when the HR isn't flying out. The Sox have finished 1st or 2nd in the AL in HRs from 2004 to 2008 in every year expect for one. Is it a coincidence that the one year they didn't finish in the top two they won the World Series? They still hit a lot of HRs, but they found ways to produce runs when they weren't hitting HRs. Fields is in the mold of those one dimensional all or nothing power hitters. IMO, the Sox not to limit those types of players in the lineup. 3) Complete player - similar to the argument above, the Sox need to find more complete players. I look at the 5 tools, except I substitute "plate discipline" for "arm". IMO, "arm" should fall under defense. One of the more underrated catagories and stats, especially for young hitters, is plate discipline and none of the other 4 catagories takes into consideration plate discipline. Lets compare the two players in the 5 catagories and you tell me which is the more complete player. Average - Fields hit .275 in 1685 career minor league ABs and .235 in his 601 career major league ABs. The scouting report on Fields is that he is never going to hit for a high average. If he hits .250+ at the major league level, than Sox fans should be happy. Getz hit .286 in 1428 career minor league ABs (hit below .299 only once in his 4 seasons) and .250 in 146 career major league ABs. The scouting report on Getz is that he should be able to hit in the .280-.290 range at the major league leve. Advantage Getz. Power - Fields hit 62 HR and a .458 SLG in the minors and 26 HR and .416 SLG in the majors (601 AB). Fields has good power potential and has displayed the ability to be a 20+ HR hitter at the major league level. Getz hit 17 HR and a .381 SLG in the minors and 0 HR and a .306 SLG in the majors. Getz is not a power guy. He might hit 5-10 HRs a year at the major level. Clear advantage Fields. Plate discipline - Fields draws a decent amount of walks, but he is a lock for 150+ SO if he gets a full season worth of ABs (550+). Getz has always had good plate discipline. Last year was the first year he had more SO than BB. He doesn't draw a ton of walks, but a healthy total. Advantage Getz. Defense - Fields has made some improvements defensively, but he is still a liability at 3B. You can even make an argument that he is one of the worst 3B in the game defensively. He will be lucky to be adequate at 3B and will likely have to move to DH (or possible 1B or LF). Getz is solid defensively and even above average at 2B. He lacks the arm to make the difficult plays in the hole, and that will likely keep him from being a great defensive 2B/GG calibur. Advantage Getz. Speed - Fields runs pretty well for a big power hitters, but his speed is average at best. Before his knee operations he could even snag double digit bags, but he doesn't have that potential any more. Getz isn't a speedster or a great base stealer, but he does have above average speed and has the potential to snag 20 bags. Advantage Getz. Personally, I don't know if either are everyday players (we will only find out if the Sox let them play on a regular basis), but I think Getz is the more complete player. I think both have rather limited upsides. Fields due to his struggles to make consistent contact, which is never going to to away. And Getz because of his lack of power. Only time will tell. At this point in both players careers it is irrational to draw firm conclusions though. Yes, BUT by this argument, you'd think that someone like Chris Getz would be more valuable than Adam Dunn, for instance. There's very little doubt that if we had Adam Dunn playing LF (for example) all season, we'd have at least 2-4 more wins this season. The Sox offense has always been predicated on production from the core of the line-up, complemented by the other positions on the field...the likes of Pods, Iguchi, Rowand and Uribe in 2005, for instance. Or even Carl Everett that season. Where the problem occurs this season (besides inconsistent starting pitching) is with the loss of Carlos Quentin's production, the heat really falls on 3B, SS, 2B and CF to give us more production. Of course, Alexei is hitting decently now, but he's still about 150 OPS behind what he did last year. You can live with Alexei at 700+ at SS, but probably not at 650 like Cabrera last year, not when you're losing all of the production out of Carlos. Obviously, Nix would be a better utility player than Getz...except he's an all or nothing hitter and doesn't have Chris' speed. It seems there is a place for BOTH these guys on the team...as long as you have a bigger bat coming off the bench for OF/1B/DH. Certainly bigger than Wise/Owens/Anderson/Pods. Of course, we had that batter in Betemit, he just couldn't play any position in the field and his best place was DH, but he's only effective against RHP, just like Thome...so superfluous and now gone. Fields/Viciedo at 3B, Ramirez at SS and Beckham at 2B gives the best possible offensive/defensive combination. The only possibility to improve would be if Nix miraculously became a 260-280 hitter, he would be more valuable because of his "plus" defense at 3B over Josh. Of course, Viciedo just committed his 13th error, but he has been an RBI machine recently. Now, how much of that is attributable to the overwhelming talent on that roster and how much of it is "innate" I guess we'll find out when he plays for Charlotte and has to maximize his RBI opportunities (and he struggled mightily in that area the first 4-6 weeks or so). Bottom line, playing 81 home games at USCF, Getz can't be a starter. If he was playing at Safeco or Petco or in the Metrodome, you might be able to hide him in the line-up more easily. He won't kill your offense, but he's a below average player in that regard and he still hasn't learned how to maximize his speed in terms of stolen bases, either. Realistically, they would be better off with Uribe as the "supersub" and Getz and Nix both playing everyday in Charlotte, if both of them aren't going to get enough at-bats, depending on how long they stick with Beckham.

There's danger here, Sheree. Why did we treat Peralta like he's Babe Ruth there? Kind of silly. But somehow Gavin got out of it. The bullpens, thankfully our biggest advantage, will decide this one. Knock on (Kerry) Wood.

Any manager forced to use a starting line-up of Scott Podsednik, Brian Anderson and Jayson Nix would be driven to drink, clearly. What starting outfield have you seen in a boxscore WORSE than that one in recent weeks? I can't think of any of the top of my head.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jun 6, 2009 -> 04:17 PM) Jermaine Dye AND AJ Pierzynski AND Alexei Ramirez Fields was 13 for his last 35 before the June 4th game. Dye is 6/21 in his last 7 days and hit .261 in May. I'll stand by my argument.

Why does BA always play like this after teasing us with a week of "decent" hitting?

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jun 6, 2009 -> 04:08 PM) WHAAAAT? did you even THINK before posting this? basing this off of ONE Josh Fields home run? Jesus. Wasn't Josh Fields 13 for his last last 39? Now something like 14 for 40? No, that's NOT JUST BASED ON ONE AT-BAT, but it's even funnier that he hit tie-breaking homer in what could easily end up a 2-1 game. JESUS BACK. Obviously you haven't been following Fields' offensive resurgence (albeit singles mostly) the last 2-3 weeks. Besides Pods with his creeping stance, WHO IS HITTING THE BALL BETTER ON THE WHITE SOX NOW??? Pray tell.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 6, 2009 -> 04:07 PM) Ozzie needs to manage wisely against the Tigers next week. You can't play Fields against the likes of Verlander and Jackson, as he won't hit their fastball. However, he needs to be in the lineup against Dontrelle. Beckham's swing was designed to take ANY fastball to RCF. Anderson, Fields, not much of a chance. Getz...he goes either way, if he's in his uppercut mode, forget it. If he's quicker and inside-outing the ball to LF and hitting line drives in general, he can be an effective player as well. You'd like to see Nix with his more compact swing get some AB's, too.

It's kind of looking silly to recall Beckham now if Fields is our best hitter, lol. You know Ozzie won't bench Ramirez or take him off SS, so is he the RH DH? Or are they just going to give up on Nix/Getz for now? Too funny.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 5, 2009 -> 08:12 PM) Disagree, BA has. Anderson's also demonstrated a lack of thinking and execution, as he failed to move runners over when it was warranted.

What is the highlight of tonight's game? The Chevy Pride girls? Maybe they should just move the fences back to old Comiskey dimensions and force everyone to learn how to hit and use the entire field.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 5, 2009 -> 08:06 PM) Getz is a perfect example of be careful what you wish for. People wanted a grinder with decent speed, so we end up getting a below average offensive producer. It's why Alexei should have stayed at 2nd, and you groom Beckham to play SS. If Fields and/or Viciedo can't play 3b, then you fire your scouting. Still of the thought that the best possible defensive arrangement is Beckham at 2B and Ramirez at SS...because Alexei has a bit better range and the stronger arm and he looks very comfortable there. You're right, Fields AND Viciedo both failing would be crippling, worse than Borchard not panning out. And, no Hawk, CJ Retherford isn't the answer as a full-time player either.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 5, 2009 -> 08:05 PM) Hitting balls hard, but right at people (which couldn't be more false) Are you Nick Swisher's agent? That got a little old with Harrelson moaning about Quentin hitting in such bad luck...when his approach was pretty much like Thome's, just to hit anything out of the park. Actually, Thome's done a much better job of going to the opposite field than Carlos has demonstrated this year.

QUOTE (daa84 @ Jun 5, 2009 -> 07:58 PM) im not sure why im this mad....objectively looking at our lineup...only two guys (Thome and Konerko) are above average major league hitters....frankly i was a huge chris getz fan at the start of the season...but if he's not getting on base at a .360 or so clip he's worthless Getz has a 607 OPS right now. That's not going to get it done. He needs to be at 650 at least, because he's not nearly the player defensively that Nix is. At least Ramirez, we know what he's capable of doing. There just seemed to be too many assuming that it would be easy for Chris Getz to go out and hit 280-290 with a 340-360 OBP. I would take 340, but you're right, with the lack of pop, 360 is more like it. And he doesn't have the stolen base ability of a Chone Figgins type either.

Carrasco, even pitching as well as he has, would not even get you a #8/9/10 prospect in another organization. Unless it was the 2007 White Sox minor league system...then you could trade him for Owens/Brian Russell/Andy Gonzalez. Dotel/Jenks/Konerko for FERNANDO MARTINEZ, please.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 5, 2009 -> 08:21 PM) He sucks. I think it's time us BA supporters realize that. He needs to go to a different team, and I HOPE Pods is our starting CF come June 10th. Does this mean the BA as underutilized Torii Hunter clone victimized by Ozzie vendetta can officially be put to bed now? LOL.

If you looked at these two teams statistically on paper, you'd swear that CLE and CHW should switch places in the standings. I think Ozzie is perhaps doing even better than 2008 to keep this team close to contention...it's all smoke and mirrors to keep the ship afloat. How Wedge doesn't get fired is simply beyond comprehension. It would be scary if that franchise had a really good manager this past decade. Even with Beckham, we might be the most boring team in all of baseball, unless you really enjoy bullpens.

What happened to the Chris Getz everyone was in love with the first couple of months? Injury-prone? He was ALWAYS the player you could count on to hustle to first base and push it on the basepaths to take the extra bag. If he's become lackadaisical as a rookie, then this franchise really needs to examine what we're teaching in the minor leagues. Ozzie can "go crazy" and rant/rave all he wants to, but the bottom line is a fundamental lack of talent. Getz, on a really good team like the 2005 White Sox is a utility player and not a starter.

QUOTE (robinventura23 @ Jun 5, 2009 -> 08:06 PM) There is no way we come back. That HR took whatever momentum we had. The series doesn't look good either. There's so guy named David Huff pitching on Sunday. So looks for the same repeat performance. BTW, we have not scored a run in the past 20 innings and only scored 1 in the past 23. Didn't Harrison get 2 wins against us? Jakabauskas, we beat him at least. The only one.

What happened? Well, one thing is for certain. Danks is throwing way too much pitches and he's lacking that strikeout pitch at this point in the season. Seems he's getting a lot more contact this year and his FB isn't quite as lively as in 2008.

The twilight zone is upon us... Who would have thought that on June 5th that Carl Pavano would have the EXACT (5.05) ERA as Danks and a better record? That 10-3 stretch really tricked us, and we still COULD be only 2 1/2 games back after the end of games tonight...but I don't think even the 2006 Cardinals' team LOOKED so bad because at least they had Pujols (for those making the "just get in" argument). Even without Hawk's "man love" Sizemore in the line-up, this Indians' offense is very dangerous...kind of like the White Sox used to be about 3 years ago. Angels and Tigers go into the 9th with goose eggs in the run column. Great duel, Verlander and Santana. With Zach sliding, Verlander might now be the best pitcher in the ALCD.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 5, 2009 -> 07:52 PM) We could easily be sellers come next weekend. There is no momentum or swagger for the Sox. But you know they'll just go out and win 3/5 or 4/5 from the Tigers and provide some false hope and extend the agony that is this season. For whatever reason, we almost always play Detroit tough, especially at home.

Seems like Danks is doomed to wander in and out of the 4's for his ERA all season long. Now up to 5.05. Detroit seemingly wants to let the rest of the division back into this thing...of course, we SHOULD have been taking advantage when we had the A's at home and they had to play the Red Sox. Feels like 1997 all over again...except that team was more talented than this one.

The second and fourth pitches in that sequence were strikes.

On second thought, better to walk Garko. That guy must be hitting .400+ against us career-wise.

Out of six opportunities, Alexei was the only one to make a "productive" out. Not good. But nothing new. Hopefully Beckham can pick up a hit sooner or later to take some of the pressure off him.