caulfield12

I think it's a toss-up. On one hand, Cantu has a track record, although he (like Gomes) completely fell off the map and into disfavor down in TB. Both are never going to be be considered above average defensively, although Cantu has more flexibility and has more of the overall skill set of a middle infielder than Fields does certainly. In terms of cost-benefit, Cantu's getting more and more expensive each and every season, whereas Josh Fields has a ways to go before he even reaches the arbitration 4-6 years of his career. Maybe the plan is to play Cantu at 3B, with Viciedo in RF. I don't know. I don't think Cantu has quite enough pop to play 1B on a regular basis...only occasionally, like Betemit did with the Yankees. The biggest concern is from the defensive side...it's hard to see how swapping Ramirez for Cabrera will be a net gain defensively (and might be a big loss), Uribe/Ramirez were/are better than anyone we'll put out on the field at 2B (although Lillibridge might be the best of the bunch, and comparable over time)...then you have huge concerns with Fields, Viciedo or Cantu playing 3B. That's the looks of a very shaky infield defense. Thankfully, Garland's no longer around, but Marquez and Richard are more likely to have balls put in play on the infield than Vazquez, a traditional power/fly ball pitcher, was. Based on that 29 homer, 95 RBI bounceback season, Cantu's going to get a huge increase in arbitration from the Marlins if he stays there...think of him just like Jenks in this regard. So, for the Marlins, it would be all about economics, like the Olsen/Willingham move.

The latest renovation of the roster is more appealing, even if many executives believe Williams is overrating Flowers, whom they regard as a serious liability behind the plate. Williams did well recouping the kind of talent he sent to Arizona to acquire Vazquez three years ago (center fielder Chris Young was the headliner). Flowers, Gilmore and Santos Rodriguez are all high-ceiling guys. Brent Lillibridge could be next year's Quentin: a talented player acquired when his value was low after a bad year. It makes you wonder how much Williams will be offered for Dye. from new Phil Rogers article at chicagotribune.com/sports "Just because I'm talking about playing a more youthful team doesn't mean we're sacrificing our goal of trying to win the division this year," Williams said after trading starting pitcher Vazquez and reliever Boone Logan to Atlanta. "Along the way, if they show you they can do certain things or cannot show you, you've built up enough depth to make an adjustment. Right now we'd be among our competition in the division." mark gonzales, trib.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 12:20 AM) There are some people around who are saying the economy is going to get a whole lot worse than it is now and not just magically recover under the hand of the Great Obama. It's kind of funny, because there is all this love talk about Obama coming out of the Sox camp and yet at the same time there are some indications that ownership itself doesn't believe "he can." Of course the Sox could deal off Dye and maybe Paulie too, then turn around and sign a high-priced FA like Dunn or something to kind of cover it up a bit, but it's not totally out of the question that the Sox look to potential $5M/year or less options at spots they decide to fill with veterans. Well, the thing is, almost EVERY business in the country can be looked to cut costs in anticipation of having a rough go the next couple of years...that provides the Sox cover, whether they believe in Obama or not. Bill Clinton, whether you believe him or not, said the economic problem should be able to overcome in 15-24 months...if they "make all the right decisions." Well, there's no guarantees on that happening. The thing is, nobody knows. You can take all of the last decade's Nobel Prize winners in Economics and you'd have 10 dramatically different opinions on a solution. I just think they're being prudent...and that we probably were over budget about $5-15 million last season and we're going to make it up this season, partially with the raising of ticket prices. I think it's better to be careful then to get into a real desperate situation like some teams, where they basically have to auction off talent to keep their organizations afloat. The Twins are going to have to open their new stadium in 2010 in the middle of something resembling the Great Depression, for all intents and purposes, and Carl Pohlad was already stingy before. With Thome, Konerko, Dye and Contreras all leaving the books in the next couple of seasons, Buehrle would be, far and away, our highest paid player.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 08:13 PM) I think he can't be traded until June 15th unless he gives his approval. But if the one year deal is more attrative than what he's being offered, KW would probably have to eat some of the contract and get garbage back to move him. Cabrera is NOT Uribe. The Tigers basically kicked Renteria out of town, and he still signed a guaranteed 2 year deal. For Cabrera at 34, 2-3 years is better than just one. And he has no interest in returning, likewise with the FO and Guillen having him back.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:26 PM) If that's the case, KW should offer his resignation. Cabrera would still give this team the best chance to win and if he didn't want him on the team and didn't think he was better than Chris Getz than maybe he should think other teams won't want to pay him the $11-12 million a year he will get in arbitration and give up a draft pick. Ridiculous comments. If Chris Getz is better than Cabrera, he should have been playing against Tampa in the playoffs. NO, I don't read it that way at all. It's simply KW laying down the gauntlet...saying they will NOT welcome him back, that he would no longer have a position with Ramirez moving over and that he would have to fight for playing time with the young guys. It's not unlike the situation with Favre and the Packers, on a much smaller scale, of course. KW knows that OC has too much pride to play somewhere he's not wanted (even vilified by some) and where he wouldn't just be given the starting position. This is all posturing and PR, hopefully like the comments about going into year with Marquez and either Richard or Poreda as the 4/5 starters. Do you believe that will actually happen?

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:25 PM) Speed on the bases That's fine in another stadium, but Abreu's never going to be considered a power hitter, especially in USCF. His speed and stolen base days are waning, and Dye is a huge asset in our smaller stadium. In a place where Abreu would hit tons of doubles and some triples...maybe I would agree with you. He's morphing into a high OBP, average defense with slightly above average speed guy at this point...with probably 15-20 HR power at USCF.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:24 PM) im hoping for a dye, Jenks, and prospects to the mets for Pelfry, Jesus Fernando Martinez, Daniel Murphy then the sox sign Adam Dunn and Chad Cordero Giving us.... 1. Lexi SS (why hasnt he been talked about as a lead off hitter for this team, he can be our Soriano, when he was good) 2. Daniel Murphey 2b 3. Jim Thome DH 4. TCQ RF (having him bat 4th so he can break up the big lefties) 5. Adam Dunn LF 6. PK 1b 7. AJP C 8. Fields/Betemit platoon 3b 9. Jesus CF 1. Buehrle 2. Floyd 3. Danks 4. Pelfrey 5. whoever wins the 5th starter spot in spring training It would take Dye and Jenks to get EITHER Martinez OR Pelfrey. No way on God's green earth are we extracting both of them. You can get Heileman and Martinez, possibly, but not a package with both those guys for Dye/Jenks. No way, no how.

I just don't see the logic in swapping out Dye and essentially replacing him with Abreu. Sheets and Lowe are definitely off the list, there's no way we can give them $14-16 million per season (on a shorter deal). AJP isn't going anywhere yet.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:08 PM) Rick Hahn was on Tribune live and he reiterated the Gilmore/Crede comparison, then one of the guys asked him to compare Flowers to someone, and he said he didn't like to do that sort of thing. What? You just did. As far as Viciedo, you have to be concerned when they want a 19 year old to lose weight. Gilmore follows Ryan Sweeney to make him our second recent Iowan, both second round draft picks. So I guess we'll see Santos starting and Gilmore playing in the SAL together. Should be fun to follow their progress and have a reason to be curious about the minor league boxes again with real interest. KW said Rodriguez's fastball was in the 95-96 MPH range recently, Baseball America had him topping out around 93. Big difference, if it's actually legit. And with his frame, he is projectable to get bigger and stronger and maybe add some more MPH, although he already is age 21. Also curious that KW mentioned beefing up Dominican training camps/scouting but nothing about Venezuela at all.

Not concerned about Viciedo's weight at all....not when you get him around Allen Thomas, Herm Schneider and Ramirez/Contreras. He'll be fine. Ozzie will tease him to death, too. That should be ample motivation.

He definitely said 10 pounds...KW seems to be pretty high on Lillibridge and feels that his swing mechanics just got messed up by "self correction" and also adjusting to an injury. Something else he said makes sense, on their "big board," he added Marquez, Nunez, Betemit and Viciedo for SWISHER. When you look at it that way, very difficult to argue against, and probably at LEAST the equivalent of Sweeney, Gio and DLS.

Trade for Taveras. Sign Juan Rivera for LF. Dye traded for a young MLB-ready starting pitcher.

The most interesting note from the conference call was the fact that two White Sox scouts argued vehemently against the "MLB ready" player Kenny wanted, so he deferred to their opinion and went with Gilmore and Santos Rodriguez instead. Wonder who that player was? Morton? Reyes? Seems they have a lot of confidence in Marquez, in the same way they were big believers in Floyd off his AFL performance (which statistically, wasn't dominant by any stretch of the imagination). "Not the average bear." (Flowers and Viciedo....too funny.)

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/major...008/267287.html http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune....ams-on-tra.html This second one has the most "meat" to it, LOTS of interesting KW comments on the deal/s, including a very funny one that will surely become someone's new sig.

Somehow the editors missed the grammatical mistake "they'll" with "there'll" or "there will" or KW was misquoted. Totally forgot about claiming Jimenez from the Blue Jays...as Williams said, another "plus" arm to go with Nunez and Rodriguez. I sure hope Lillibridge reads the following article and pins it up in his locker. Those kind of emphatic quotes, made after one season of struggle, tend to come back and haunt writers and prognosticators. This time, Christina Kahrl. Acquired C-R Tyler Flowers, SS-R Brent Lillibridge, 3B-R Jon Gilmore, and LHP Santos Rodriguez for RHP Javier Vazquez and LHP Boone Logan. [12/2] While Sox fans have reason to be concerned that dealing Vazquez and not getting a starter close to ready coming back in the deal exposes them to a rotation of Danks, Buehrle, Floyd, humming a few bars, and getting back to Danks, Buehrle, and Floyd, let's remember that familiarity bred contempt for a few of the team's high-profile pickups of late, notably departing free agent Orlando Cabrera, but not excepting Vazquez. Flowers is the obvious prize, though his glove work behind the dish is questionable enough that he's no sure thing. Which is not to say this is a bad pack, it's just that it's comprised of disparate parts, players on different trajectories moving at different speeds who might answer different needs at different times. Lillibridge can run and he can handle short well enough, but he was also highly overrated after a batting average-inflated 2006 season, and there's a pretty good chance he's just a utility player who allows the Sox to wean themselves from the Age of Ozuna once and for all. He's not a bad add, but he's also probably not a starting shortstop that lets the Sox move Alexei Ramirez to third instead of short, which means the Ramirez-at-short experiment isn't being ended before it gets started. Lillibridge also doesn't pose much danger for Chris Getz at second. So, he's filler. from Baseball Prospectus

QUOTE (greg775 @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 11:56 PM) Yeah, isn't Cabrera really tall? Haven't we learned our lesson with tall, wild pitchers? Jon Rauch? Well, it would be funny/ironic if they somehow signed Randy Johnson. Or Eric Hillman. Hendrickson.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 11:07 PM) Daniel Cabrera will be a member of the White Sox organization before Christmas. We won't have to wait too long to find out...in the next couple of weeks. But you'd have to guess at least 10-15 other teams would at least have preliminary interest in Cabrera. That's where Ozzie and Cooper might give us the advantage, theoretically, in recruiting. I'll put it this way....I would rather find 3-4 Daniel Cabreras and sign them for $3-5 milllion each per season than bring in ONE Jake Peavy to USCF and the AL. The odds are very good that not putting all the eggs in one basket (like buying stocks) will end up bearing fruit if Don Cooper has anything to say about it. We can have a bet, Willy Taveras will be a member of the White Sox organization before December 31st. LOL.

Who is our next Vazquez? I screened all those pitchers who have thrown 200 IP or more in one of the last 3 seasons and might be available. Padilla D. Davis K. Rogers Schilling Dave Bush J. Jennings Fr. Garcia Millwood Capuano Glavine Harang Moyer A. Cook B. Penny P. Maholm I. Snell PETITTE Suppan D. Willis Pelfrey D. CABRERA B. Arroyo C. Silva LOOPER Wainwright Gorzelanny Z. Duke Sheets Garland Jeff Francis

QUOTE (Markbilliards @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 08:53 PM) I definitely do not want Peavy. Is he a good pitcher? Yes. Is he an elite pitcher? No. Peavy stats at Petco: ERA= 2.66 WHIP=1.07 Peavy stats in away games: ERA=3.80 WHIP=1.30 Hmmm..... Lets try this, Peavy career vs. AL: 44ER in 121 IP = 3.27 ERA Not too bad, but then look closer to see that he's had 40.2 IP against Seattle (A third of his AL games) Peavy vs (AL - SEA)= 35 ER in 80.1 IP = 3.92 ERA My point is, taking Peavy out of his stadium raises his ERA. Then taking Peavy out of his league raises his ERA even more. So do I want us to pay for him in prospects and salary like he's an elite pitcher? Nope, because he's a good pitcher, not an elite one. Unfortunately the Padres should be smart enough to sell him as if his numbers will remain the same in any park in any league. He is simply not worth the cost. I'd much rather go for a lesser pitcher that would be more cost effective in terms of salary and prospects. Or, I'd much rather just hold onto the 'spects, hold onto the money and just wait for the right opportunity to come along. That opportunity is just not this one. NO PEAVY! Good quick research! I'll agree....and also disagree with whoever said that Clayton Richard could be close to consideration as a "centerpiece" of any deal for Peavy. It starts at Poreda, Fields or Allen and another prospect....second/third tier.

QUOTE (michelangelosmonkey @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 09:37 PM) You mean the "LAST DECADE" where we won three divisions, finished 2nd 4 times and won a World Series? That is the decade you don't want to repeat? Adam Dunn is a high on base, high power guy that would fit great on the team No, you misunderstand. I said that's been the complaint the past decade. Up until this year, Minnesota's approach has been more consistent in winning divisions, but then 2005 and 2008 kind of erases that...we definitely had the more talented teams than Minny most of those years, but we were too one dimensional offensively. With that said, pitching is almost always what wins championships...I do think when we look back on the decade, we'll wonder about 2003 and 2006, in particular. We had a huge payroll disparity with the Twins, and yet they played us evenly over that time period.

QUOTE (Wanne @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 08:14 PM) This team is no different really from last year with Dunn in the lineup. No thanks. Tavares in CF I can see. But not Dunn. Puts us back in the same old plodding HR hitting funk which people have b****ed about the past few year. Not just last year, LAST DECADE!!! Personally, I just can't see KW trading away a JD to clear the way to sign an Abreu. But I've been surprised before. It doesn't really make sense. As noted, Abreu is going to hit 15-25 homers at USCF, not 30-45. He might have a better OBP, he MIGHT be a better defender...but he has slipped significantly. I suppose we could look at it as saving $3-4 million per season over Dye AND getting a pitcher back to take Vazquez's spot in the rotation. Just seems kind of backwards. Well, really the question is would it be better to buy a pitcher in the market or give up Dye in order to acquire one? I guess in KW's line of thinking, trading talent for younger/affordable starters is almost always better than buying veterans FA pitchers on the open market.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 08:00 PM) Here's what i can see happening. I think Broadway gets dealt for Tavares. I wouldn't be surprised if that hasn't already been agreed on. I think Dye gets moved to the Reds. If money is the issue in this trade maybe we send Dye,either BA or Owens,and maybe Lillibridge to the Reds for Bailey and either Arroyo or Harang.That would even the money out a little bit. Then the Sox sign Dunn in free agency. That would give us a team looking like: SP-Buehrle, Floyd,Danks, Harang, and Bailey/Poreda/Marquez/Richard bullpen:Thornton,Linebrink,loser of the 5th spot,Russel,Dotel, Jenks Lineup: CF-Tavares 2b-Getz RF-Quentin LF-Dunn DH-Thome 1B-Konerko SS-Alexei C-AJ 3B-Fields bench players: Betemit, Nix,backup C, Owens/BA, Wise I wouldn't want Thome and Dunn back-to-back. I'd hit Thome fourth, Konerko fifth and Dunn sixth. Or Dunn 4th and Thome 6th, depending on who was hottest. I also don't like Fields at the very bottom of the line-up. I'd be tempted to put Alexei there, but then you sacrifice some at-bats over the season. Also, Nix will probably go to the minors if he's not the starter. He can't play all over the diamond like Uribe/Getz/Betemit/Lillibridge. http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-bl...ng_hampton.html Very good article by Atlanta J-C writer on the Vazquel deal, although I think he's discounting any impact from the 3 other players we got in the deal too much, Gilmore in particular.

I could see Uribe ending up in StL, LA, Oakland, Toronto...maybe even the Twins, although I would hate and love it at the same time from a Sox fan perspective. Hopefully Juanie aka The Lizard gets a chance to be a starting SS again somewhere this year.

QUOTE (103 mph screwball @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 07:39 PM) Jerry is not getting any younger and I'm sure another World Series would make him as happy as it would make us if not more so. Reinsdorf will also make budgetary exceptions for exceptional talent. It's been discussed frequently on this board how the Sox lack a true ace. Peavy would qualify and make all of the other pitcher better. Peavy MB Danks Floyd JC/a young pitcher from the system/a short term vet such as Randy Johnson or Pedro Martinez This staff would be loaded for bear and aiming beyond a central title. Fun to think about on this fine December evening. We really should have a pool to guess who is on the final roster / starting lineup to see who can predict KW the closest. I'm not sure I agree there...I think he is a bit more content with the World Series title under his belt. There's a large number of Sox fans who feel that way. Then there's KW, who is driven to win every year and usurp the Cubs' role as Chicago's team. I'm not going to say I agree or disagree with any of the moves so far...only that the recession that former President Clinton predicted would take 15 months to 2 years to shake free from (if they make the right decisions in the new administration) is giving KW and JR additional cover to lower the payroll a bit, at least as of today, it appears we're headed back down to the $85-100 million range, if not a little lower. You can say JR is either brilliant or greedy or a combination of both, knowing that raising ticket prices was only possible coming off the AL Central Division championship, when he held the deposits from playoff ticket sales. Of course, look at 2005 and that was far and away our cheapest team of the last four years. There's certainly something to be said for having younger, hungrier players like the Twins, Rays, etc. Everyone has known for years now that the middle of the order would need to be broken up, that we were too station to station and reliant upon the homer. However, that's they way you win at USCF (look at Thome's GW HR against MIN), along with quality starting pitching and a good bullpen. The first phase was jettisoning Lee, Ordonez, Thomas and Valentin. Now we're in Phase II, with Konerko, Dye and Thome. By 2011, we will have an almost entirely different line-up, and one that's mostly homegrown, hopefully. Also, look at all the bad contracts the Tigers have or had, like Renteria, Dontrelle Willis, Sheffield, Pudge Rodriguez. At least we're sitting here with only two issues on our roster, Contreras and MacDougal. Konerko could be traded without eating any salary after the way he finished the season. We have a ton of flexibility now with our payroll, infield depth and re-invigorated farm system. It's fun to see so much "fresh blood" coming into the fold, and not Andy Gonzalez, Wasserman, Fields and Owens, but legit All-Star caliber players in the future.

QUOTE (DukeNukeEm @ Dec 3, 2008 -> 08:11 PM) Is there anybody else who doesnt want Jake Peavy? Like at all? Jerry Reinsdorf?