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As the Cubs step up their pursuit of San Diego Padres ace Jake Peavy, they might be playing themselves out of the bidding for one of their top offseason priorities, Baltimore Orioles leadoff hitter Brian Roberts. Sources say the Padres are seeking a three-for-one or four-for-one swap for Peavy, getting a package of young talent that is expected to include at least one major-league-ready pitcher. That could cost the Cubs some of their best trading chips in their pursuit of Roberts. Chicago Sun Times

QUOTE (beck72 @ Nov 9, 2008 -> 10:28 AM) Dotel isn't Vazquez-like. He's coming back from injury and hadn't pitched the number of innings he did this year since IIRC, 2004. Vazquez hasn't had any excuses. Dotel had every reason to wear down like he did at year's end. Yet I don't think I heard word one from Dotel about using that as an excuse. Dotel had Tommy John surgery in the middle of the 2005 season, on June 1st of that season to be exact. Typically, it takes one season to return, and then you should be fully recovered or even stronger the following season, which would have been the second half of the 2007 season. He had a shoulder strain in 2007 and missed about six weeks (August 10th-September 22nd), but I think any recovery we see from Dotel should already have happened 3 1/2 seasons since the surgery. That can't be an excuse any longer IMO. What you see is what you get, pretty much.

The Marlins moves were more about slashing salary and positioning about the stadium issue. While trading Konerko or Vazquez might be "salary-based" moves in a way, trading Jenks, Dye and Swisher (all reasonably priced, I'll wait to see Swisher's next season to say he's overpaid) aren't as much as they are recalibrating the White Sox engine? Interesting discussion, but highly unlikely. Maybe a couple of pitchers, but we'll never get 3-4. Although I have no doubt that KW would like to get to a position of strength again when he had the luxury of McCarthy and El Duque and then added Vazquez to the mix. Right now, our fifth starters candidates: Richard, Poreda (doubtful for 09 as a starter), Broadway...I guess you can add DJ Carrasco and Horacio Ramirez as options 4/5 to that list as well.

Delmon Young and Perkins/Blackburn... They could also make the deal Cuddyer and Perkins/Blackburn. If the Braves wanted another player, maybe someone like Brendan Harris or Nick Punto (if they make an offer to him)...if they don't, I can actually see KW swooping in to put him in the utility role. As long as he promises to stop sliding headfirst into 1B when he's out by about 10-15 feet on routine grounders. Finally, they have a lot of depth in LH relievers with the emergence of Breslow and Mijares...then again, they'll probably let Reyes and Guardado both walk. Will be interesting to see if they offer arbitration to either player, and if either player accepts it. I just thank the Twins for trading Garza and Bartlett. I think they would have had us if they didn't make that deal, and holding Liriano another 4-6 weeks in favor of Livan Hernandez.

QUOTE (mmmmmbeeer @ Nov 9, 2008 -> 08:45 AM) We should have traded Bobby at the same time we should have traded MB.....but we didn't trade either of them. So yes, although it's a year or two too late, I'm in favor of trading Jenks. He'll command more than he's actually worth and his return can be used to fill atleast one of our holes with a stud everyday player. Mark Buehrle, if we actually wished to trade him, is probably worth more than he was a year ago...not less. Jenks, as has been mentioned, if you find the right deal KW, go ahead and pull the trigger and roll the dice. I'm up for it.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 9, 2008 -> 08:32 AM) Very misleading considering he's been a set-up guy most of his career. If you want to look at it that way Thornton has 5 career saves and 16 blown. I think he'd be a good bet to convert more than 25%. Linebrink has 5 career saves and 29 blown. Dotel was a primary closer for really 1+ season after his phenomenal run as a Houston set-up guy and converted about 80%, and his ERA with Oakland was higher than it was with the White Sox last year. We don't know the circumstances of his appearances so it would be hard to judge exactly what to expect, but to say his career rate is 69.7% and say he's lost a lot of his fastball, so expect worse is wrong. Its amazing how a guy with a .208 BAA averaging 12.36 k/9 innings gets so much grief. Granted he had several bad outings, but he must of been pretty good sometimes. I look at Dotel in almost the same way I view Vazquez. Both look really good on paper, but the reality finds something lacking. Now Dotel pitched well in the post-season, but I think you'll find a noticeable downtrend when Linebrink went down and Dotel had to pitch more often in the 8th, rather than just the 7th. In other words, and I don't have the statistic to prove it, whenever he had a really clutch or important game situation, it feels like he failed about 50% of the time. He always pitched great when he was just getting some work in or the lead was more than 2-3 runs, but he really struggled many times in either tie games or when we only had a lead of a couple of runs. In August, he had a 5.56 ERA and FIVE (YES, 5) homers surrendered in only 11 1/3 IP. This is back to my point about Dotel pitching WORSE when Linebrink went down (around July 22nd) and he had to be the 8th inning guy, not just the 7th. September, a so-so 4.32 ERA and two homers in 8 1/3 IP. All told, he gave up 7 HOMERS in less than 20 IP over two plus months. That's something Arnie Munoz and Charlie Haeger might struggle to do if they tried. I lost count of how many walk-off or game "losing" homers Linebrink and Dotel accounted for. His ERA went from 2.85 to 3.76 during this critical time period when the SOX were dying out there in the bullpen (The DJ Carrasco Wilderness, I like to think of it as).

Dotel career save numbers...most of them prior to surgery when he had a 94-97 MPH fastball with the Astros and A's. 83 saves 36 blown saves Conversion rate=69.7% I don't expect anything higher than 70% out of Dotel, not after the way he pitched last season for us in many critical situations.

QUOTE (beautox @ Nov 9, 2008 -> 04:37 AM) That would be epic, move Che to CF S Reyes SS L Murphy 2B R Quentin RF L Thome DH R Konerko 1B S Swisher LF R Ramirez CF L AJP C R Fields 3B Going into '10, either fields busts out or he busts; going around the diamond. DH - Konerko C - AJP 1B - Fields/Swisher 2B - Murphy SS - Reyes 3B - Beckham LF - Swisher/Danks/Ramirez CF - Ramirez/Danks RF - Quentin That would be great, but there's no way they will take Vazquez instead of Danks/Floyd. You have to begin with Jenks, Floyd and then one more piece (not Alexei Ramirez)

Who the heck is Lisa Winston?

Morales simply hasn't hit yet in his limited big league opportunities...when he has hit, he hasn't hit for nearly the power (20-25 homers with lots of doubles) projected for him and finally, his body type lends itself to being overweight.

I think with Dotel, we'd have a 65-75% conversion rate, as opposed to Jenks at 85%. The question is will the player we get back in return for Jenks allow us to make up those 3-5 "lost" victories and blown games in other ways? I'll let the VORP and Bill James statistics types analyze that one. Historically, it has been better to invest money in other areas than in relief pitchers...and the White Sox have gotten away with not paying any big-time closers. The one we did bring in, Koch, was the biggest disaster of all our closers over the last decade.

Sounds like D'Angelo Jimenez. Well, everyone is the next Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Wayne Gretzky or Joe Montana/Jerry Rice until they are not, lol. If you read all the scouting reports available on Ramirez, you would have thought he was something of a combination of Craig Grebeck, Paco Martin, Esteban Beltre, Warren Newson and Mike Caruso...with a large dose of Andy Gonzalez thrown in for good measure. They say the same types of things about Manny Ramirez and all he does is hit, hit, hit. Of course, he has his limitations...but I think if you had Viciedo around Guillen, Alexei and Jose, that work ethic question would disappear rather quickly...or he would be shipped out and become a footnote. KW always does his due diligence...he's not going to sign this guy unless he's talked to our Cubans extensively through Ozzie and/or one of the Guillens to find out more about his reputation as a teammate, work ethic questions, diet/nutrition/motivation, etc.

The question is, what do the Cardinals ask us for...you know it's going to start with pitching, and we can offer Jenks/Vazquez but they will want Buehrle, Danks and Floyd. "I'm not only proud of my country for the first time in many years, but I also can publicly be an Iowa Hawkeye football fan again...and also laugh once again at Ron Zook."

Well, let's hope KW can get the deal done with Viciedo. Obviously, this won't be a "low visibility" signing, and there will be more interest in the wake of the success of Alexei...not to mention Viciedo's age and international experience/seasoning makes him more attractive. As mentioned above, while I pretty much agree and have been arguing here, at WSI and even before that at chisox.com for a rebuild of the team, KW has obviously never listened (LOL) and I doubt he will now. He always does what is best for putting the most competitive team out there on a season-by-season basis. At least that has been his modus operandi. I'm just a little skeptical because getting so many pitching prospects that have ceilings of 3 or above...well, it's just not that easy to do. And other GM's will certainly catch on after the first or second trade. You don't think that Daniels or Wade look a little silly for the deals that gave us Danks and Floyd and half of Swisher? (Of course, Gillick probably doesn't care, and has never been the type to look back TOO much). Of course, there are a lot of variables with our bullpen...you don't know what impact, if any, Contreras will have out there. Do we hold onto Dotel hoping for Type A compensation only to see him go down to injury again and lose the window of opportunity to trade a setup guy being paid like some MLB closers in their arbitration years? Maybe the names mentioned before will have a breakout, Logan type of performance and vault from A ball to the majors, but that's only happened twice in my lifetime, with Logan and previously with Scott Radinsky, who was 10X the pitcher Logan was/is. Best-case scenario, if we did make 3-4 of these rebuilding the rotation moves...is that we would mirror the Minnesota Twins' lack of depth and experience in their rotation coming into this season. I guess we'd be better off...in general, because Baker and Liriano were their two most experienced starters. But they ended up getting solid seasons (overall) from Slowey, Blackburn and Perkins until near the end. Then again, the probability of "slippage" with Danks and/or Floyd is pretty high, and you never know when the wear and tear on Mark's arm/should with all those IP will end up in a trip to the DL, or worse, a Cris Carpenter type of situation. Of course, you PLAN on MB being healthy, but I don't think KW is 100% confident that Floyd can repeat his success/impact. I feel better about Danks, especially based on the last weeks of the season...heck, just the Minnesota one game playoff alone. GO HAWKEYES!!!!

It's still okay if he ends up a 1B and replaces Konerko a couple of years down the line. No problems with that, although the preference would be for him to play 3B. There's the option of moving him to LF when Quentin moves over to RF to replace JD, but that's a more long-term consideration. Like with Miggy Cabrera, he's going to have a rough time finding a position. Seems like they would prefer LF/3B but he will end up at 1B/DH in all probability. As I said, that's fine...if he can have the impact with his bat, and not Kendry Morales but 30-40 homers and a boatload of RBI's. Especially great on a "speculative" contract, as opposed to paying $11 million for Aaron Rowand for ONE SEASON to be adequate and giving up talent/compensation as well. The multi-year money numbers being bandied about are what we would pay Aaron or Vazquez in just one season. As mentioned, signing him to a 3-4 year deal is silly when his biggest impact would come in years 5/6 (expected). That's assuming his age is legit.

1) Ludwick or Ankiel for CF (because of the emergence of Rasmus) 2) Coco Crisp 3) Brandon Lyon (will be leaving D-Backs probably...) 4) Juan Cruz (ditto) Taking either Ankiel (because of the HGH) or Ludwick (sort of the Cardinals' version of Carlos Quentin) scares me a little, because we'd have to overpay IMO and both of them might struggle their first year in the AL making adjustments. I prefer a lot less talent going for Taveras. Crisp is someone that KW remains high on from everything I've heard. Cruz, and especially Lyon, would look nice in our pen, especially if we're actually shopping Jenks and/or Dotel.

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=j...o&type=lgns Hope the Cubs don't get him...or they do and he goes Mike Hampton/Jaime Navarro/Barry Zito on them.

Joe Christensen has an update on the Twins' search for help on the left side of the infield. Minnesota is one of seven teams interested in Casey Blake, according to Blake's agent Jim McDowell. Blake hit .274/.345/.463 last year for the Indians and Dodgers this year. He's been released twice by the Twins, but he could come back to stabilize them at third base. Christensen has sources who suggest that the Twins are also targeting Yunel Escobar and J.J. Hardy in trades. If no deal is made, they could re-sign Nick Punto, who played 61 games at shortstop in 2008. The Twins are also interested in trading for Garret Atkins, who's six years younger than Blake and a better hitter. from mlbtraderumors.com PS Wonder if the White Sox are one of those six other teams? Maybe we'll hear more soon. I guess he could still be the "stopgap" or back-up move to go with Viciedo.

I think we need to take a step back and temper our enthusiasm a LITTLE bit. Sure, KW has a really good string going again with his moves, but eventually the string is going to be broken. That said, taking more Cuban players means 1) we're taking pure "baseball players" and not athletes masquerading as baseball players and 2) we're building up our depth chart and our minor league system is becoming at least semi-respectable again. Also, I would be much more willing to give someone like this kid a shot (in 2010 or 2011) than holding firm to the belief that Juan Uribe's going to be the key to us getting to another WS playing 3B for the Sox. It's one of those high reward/low risk moves...although, as mentioned, Alexei's success and the contract KW signed him to (highway robbery it seems now) is going to make all those scouts sitting around with eggs on their faces really overcompensate/overreact and perhaps rate this kid too highly and push their teams to sign him for fear of missing out. One thing, after reading that article which does get one a little bit excited...I wonder if the relationship between KW and Torres has reached the point where they will give the Sox a final chance to pony up more money if another team comes up with a significantly more attractive offer? It could be a lot of talk, but it APPEARS as if there is a lot of mutual interest on both sides, and "comfortability" is definitely a concern for placing this kid in the right big league situation and market.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Nov 8, 2008 -> 04:21 AM) I'd much rather NOT see the Sox buy high on a soon-to-be 30-year-old former AAAA platoon player coming off of a career year in the National League. If we deal with the Phils and Victorino isn't an option as part of a package then I want the deal centered around Carrasco, but only if the Sox think Carrasco can become a #2-3 starter and pitch out of the back of the rotation in 2009. Personally I'd like to see us deal Javy, Jenks, Dye, and shop one of Swisher/Konerko in order to re-stock the farm, mainly with pitching prospects but also with a CF prospect to put alongside Danks. Shop Dotel too if someone wants to overpay knowing they'll most likely get Type A compensation after '09. If a corner OF spot opens up as a result then the Sox can pursue some guys who may come cheaper talent-wise via trade (meaning we deal more of the Shelby, Richard types and not the Poreda, Beckham, Danks types), like Randy Winn or Brian Giles. Or, sign a guy like Ibanez or Dunn to throw in LF for one year and take over for Thome as a LH DH after '09. Maybe even bring Griffey back as a LF/RF for one year since he wouldn't cost us any draft picks, or do the same with Juan Rivera or Garrett Anderson on a low base as part of a LF platoon. Either way, re-stock the farm and at the same time bring in a couple pitchers who can develop at the back of the rotation while also giving Fields a shot. Because of the strides our new core has made, we should be able to do something similar in '09 that we did in '08, which is partially rebuild yet still remain competitive. That way, going into 2010, we'll have a lot of money to spend, a very young team, and a much better farm system. I think we need to create a better foundation for the franchise to stand on so that we can compete for the next 10-20 years. Maybe I'm just naive, but the intentions behind the last two drafts, plus all the minor league changes including the discovery of the scouting and player development scandal, plus the moves Kenny has made since the 06-07 offseason to create younger core, all has me optimistic about the future. We just need to continue along those lines. That's all fine and good, but KW has always used the minor league system largely as a talent pool for his trades to improve the 25 man roster...at least up until this point. If you trade Jenks and Dotel, that puts an awful lot of pressure on Thornton and Linebrink, and Scott's "iffy" to me coming into 2009 as a reliable pitcher like the first four months of 08. I mean, we all know that we still have a long ways to go to really have a youthful team, and there hasn't been much recentl mention of AJ aging and his throwing problems (yes, 60-70% of it is the pitchers)...which is another major concern as well. If you trade Vazquez, Dye and Swisher/Konerko...well I just don't realistically see how you can compete in 2009...when the Twins will be better, the Indians and Tigers SHOULD be better and the Royals also are making strides. I agree fundamentally with what you're arguing, I just don't think KW is ready to do that quite yet. I do think he will see what is available in exchange for Jenks, Dye and Vazquez, not to mention Swisher and Konerko...but whether he actually pulls the trigger is another question altogether. In the back of his mind, KW knows if he did essentially the same thing with Buehrle and Dye in 2007, he wouldn't have gotten a Division Championship this year.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 7, 2008 -> 09:44 PM) So what names from TB do we hear mentioned in trade rumors ? I hear Crawford mentioned right now the most. He's due the most money. If the Rays spent it will be to reward the young core not on a declining outfielder with a salary higher than any of it's current players even if it is for only a year. I'd say that's being smart about it. Still I won't deny it's possible of course just not probable. Like I said originally "doubtful . Besides the "pipe dreams" of Upton, there's Reid Brignac, Rocco Baldelli and taking on Fernandez Perez as a fourth OF to inject some more speed/defense. Lots of ideas about trading for Edwin Jackson/Niemann and E. Morlan.

QUOTE (joeynach @ Nov 7, 2008 -> 07:55 PM) Beltran makes 18.5 Mil in 09, 10, and 11 then becomes a free agent. He also has a full no trade clause. Plus I dont even want Beltran all the much. Hes a good run producer but why should we take on 55.5 Mil for 3 years for a guy that hits about .275-.280 with 30 Hrs. Thats basically Dye's career averages. If we trade Jenks and Vazquez I want Reyes at least. Unfortunately, the price would be Jenks/Danks or Jenks/Floyd, although I don't think KW would pull the trigger on a Danks move. For Floyd, probably. Just my sense. Maybe because at mid-season this year, there were a lot of rumors that Floyd was being included in multiple packages...that KW was trying to "sell high" and take advantage of Floyd's hot start as quickly as possible before he cooled off. Still, it's a very, very illogical thing to trade a young/affordable pitcher with Floyd's stuff and seeing how much he's already improved under the tutelage of Cooper and Guillen. Trading Javier, once again we would have to roll the dice on two spots in the rotation and hope that Danks/Floyd repeat. I don't like the odds of that, no matter how well Reyes plays...it almost always comes down to pitching. But year, with Hanley Ramirez and Sizemore, he's one of the most exciting players in the game today and it would be great to see a better version of "I love to watch Ray run." Heck, Harrelson would almost forget about Carlos Gomez, except when we played the Twins.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 7, 2008 -> 07:38 PM) Yes I meant Ozzie's first season, 2004 was when Frank and Maggs went down. In 2003, Loaisa was awesome. Colon was solid, Buerhle started out horribly and rebounded. Garland was what he normally was Koch blew. The White Sox were in first place September 14 when they took the rubber game at Fenway when CLee got stuck on the Green Monster. With Koch being as bad as he was, he was replaced by Flash Gordon, Foulke was outstanding with the A's. The White Sox may have won that division. They had a solid team, but fell apart late. Their bullpen could have been Sullivan, Gordon, Foulke and an unbelievably good Marte. If they won, Ozzie may still be coaching 3rd somewhere. As far as Contreras, the White Sox did say when and if he returns he most likely will be used out of the bullpen. Too many memories of that time... 1) Buehrle begging to start at Yankee Stadium (when we were in a position to sweep) and Cotts wetting the bed and letting the Yanks off the hook 2) Foulke's decision to "voluntarily demote" himself from the closer role and KW's determination to get a fireballer 3) The lack of depth brought about by the Ritchie deal and a plethora of injuries and non-performance from our "waves of pitching" (Rauch, Wright, Barcelo, Parque, etc.) 4) The fact that Minnesota was smart enough to sign Kenny Rogers to a very cheap deal...and I'm convinced that the 5th starter's spot was one of the key differences that year. KW didn't rectify that until 2005 with the emergence of McCarthy and the acquisition of El Duque to go with Jose, Freddy, Mark and Garland. 5) Maybe it wasn't this season, but Koch serving up a game loser to Carl Crawford at the Trop into the RF seats around the 4th of July. I still don't think that Manuel could have led us to the World Series with the way that players like Magglio and Carlos Lee were not responding to his leadership, and the growing problems that were also evidenced in the clubhouse behaviors of Jimenez, Royce Clayton and Kenny Lofton.

It would have been nicer had we noticed Curtis Granderson in our own backyard, almost literally. Having him as our CFer would have solved a few of our problems...unfortunately, not leadoff...but he's a very, very good player. Not Sizemore-esque, but the next tier down. The strikeouts are the worst part of his game, and nullify (like they do with Chris Young) some of his other attributes.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 7, 2008 -> 08:23 PM) I'd say Mark Buehrle. Jim Thome. IIRC, both have pretty complete NTC's. I see Jenks going before Buehrle. I don't think KW is 100% confident he can bank on repeats from Danks and Floyd in 2009. Maybe. He is more likely to get predictability out of Buerhle and Vazquez IMO. Look at Cliff Lee. I'm not saying Danks will repeat his career path, but it's an interesting comparison. Of course, there was the "downswing" that came before he emerged last year as the best AL lefty, at least for one season. Floyd, while he was our stopper in the second half...it seems his ERA kept creeping up and up and up over the year, and part of that's natural, he pitched so many great games the first couple of months out of the blocks. You had the feeling he would end up around 4.50 if the season continued another month though. If you do trade Mark, do think KW is ready to look at Danks as a 1 and Floyd as a 2? I think the only reason would be if you traded Jenks/Buehrle and either Konerko or Dye and invested that money in someone like Sabathia as the #1, and I would be seriously shocked if that happened. Other than CC, there's no true "ace" pitcher out there that justifies spending north of $15 million per season. And no, while AJ Burnett has "ace" stuff, I don't for a second put him in the Halladay/Sabathia/Santana class.