caulfield12

Thanks, Meche. Walk Nick Punto to load the bases with one out for Joe Mauer and Morneau. UGH!

QUOTE (joesaiditstrue @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 03:08 PM) All aboard the Gavin train Ozzie bringing in Thornton with men on base That = Runs Scored Thanks Oz Well, you really can't start Thornton off in the inning, because Gavin had a long time to rest (too much, apparently) and had pitched well since the Lowell homer...then you have to really extend him (Thornton) to bridge across to Dotel, if you can manage to get to the 8th and keep the lead or at least a tie. We're just too vulnerable in our bullpen right now.

QUOTE (Frankensteiner @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 03:02 PM) Wait, we have a .313 hitter in our lineup? Ramirez was close coming into the game, at .310.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 02:57 PM) Exactly. At that point, you are playing for 1 run against the Red Sox in the 5th inning. Giving up outs against the Red Sox is idiotic. If AJ executes and plays "small box" or fundamental baseball later in the game yesterday, then we see Thornton and not Boone Logan and the White Sox have at least a 75% chance to win the game (with a one run lead). I suppose someone will argue the opposite point because of the failed bunt, but that doesn't mean it was a strategic error...just one of execution. That wouldn't have been too idiotic if we won yesterday.

QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 02:55 PM) 6 hits, 4 walks in less than three innings for Livan. GO GET HIM KENNY!!! EDIT: Another home run. That's 9 ER. Another hit for the royals. Runners on the corners with two outs. Are you being sarcastic about Livan Hernandez? Hard to tell sometimes around here.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 02:53 PM) I've never seen a guy go from looking so s***ty in an at bat or the first pitches of an at bat and then end up with a single than Alexei. Iguchi was close...he looked like a rusty, swinging gate from Atticus Finch's house in the rural South on some pitches...but he didn't have nearly the bat speed and hands that Alexei does.

QUOTE (letsgoarow @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 02:52 PM) Royals scored. 2-1, man on third 1 out 2-2 on a Guillen single...amazing Meche got out of 1st and 3rd and no outs last inning. Big momentum shift.

QUOTE (Frankensteiner @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 02:47 PM) I am not going to go overboard and call Getz a great 2-spot hitter when he's never had a ML at-bat. At the same time, if he can play good defense at 3B there is absolutely a position for him. Do you really want a Nick Punto/Brett Buscher/Brendan Harris equivalent playing 3B for the White Sox? Well, I guess you don't have to get 20-25 homers at this position if we can get some power from Ramirez at SS and at 2B, but who can play 2B then? Uribe? Hudson? Beckham? Shelby? I think Getz is more of a utility-player who can start on lower tier teams at the MLB level.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 02:44 PM) They never play well against the Yankees and I don't see that changing. So if we can be tied with them going into the next series, I could see us picking up a game or two. Alexei for defensive MVP. After the Yankees (who are really struggling and aren't so good on turf), they have Seattle and Oakland at home. We know how good those last two teams have been playing recently! The way things are going, I would be surprised/shocked if the Twins weren't 18 games over .500 within the week. We just need to stay 2-3 games behind and cross our fingers that the 14 game road trip (starting with four in LA against the Angels) really sets them back in a tailspin.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 02:39 PM) I hate the Twins. With the exception of the Mariners series it seems like they sweep all inferior teams and then get swept by all superior teams. They have all of 2 hits in five innings against Baker today, 2-0 Twins heading into the 6th. Of course, they will have approximately 51 hits against us this week, predictably. Looks like ALL the momentum is now officially back to the Red Sox after we had them on the ropes. Too bad we didn't have Craig Monroe or Marcus Thames to pinch-hit for us against Aardsma.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 02:29 PM) If we're going for it this season, the time is now. Danks is going to have to be shut down next month, so we're going to need TWO new starters, not jut one. If the M's want Poreda, they can keep dreaming. Well, if that's definitely the case, I think the White Sox should just limit him to 75 pitches or 5 innings or whatever (after September 1st) and not shut him down. It's hard to imagine that they are just going to sit our best pitcher for the rest of the season in the heat of a pennant race.

QUOTE (Jake @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 12:26 PM) There is no guarantee that Broadway will be horrid at the ML level. We have all seen guys pitch mediocre in AAA and come up to the majors and really do the job. Sometimes it's almost like it's boredom or something in AAA, or perhaps some guys just really respond to the added pressure. Everyone knows that our bullpen is a weakness, we just made it even weaker. That's true, but most of those times, it's a pitcher who has legit stuff and an "out" pitch. Anyone can pitch poorly in the minors...the fact is that Broadway has such a fine margin for error, and outings he had last year were under little or no pressure...much different when everyone in the city is all over the airwaves after 1-2 bad starts.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 01:26 PM) Yeah, it would really suck if the Sox had a veteran 5th starter at their disposal next season. That would be fine...but the time to make that pick-up is in Spring Training, not out of sheer desperation. If the deal is simply taking Washburn's contract, sure. If it's something silly like giving up Fields/Martinez/Silverio and Poreda, then no thanks.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 01:40 PM) the sox still aren't in that bad of a position injury wise. They're missing one SP. Crede and Linebrink should make it back in the next few weeks. They've been missed, but sox really haven't lost much ground with those 2 out. If the sox don't make the playoffs, will it be because Contreras is done for the year? If the other starters pitch like they have been--with slight improvement--and the bullpen rebounds, they'll be OK. The lineup is otherwise pretty healthy and should be ready to put up solid numbers for the next month and a half. Some people are now lamenting the Griffey trade. Yet it has allowed the sox to rest Thome, PK, Swisher and Dye a bit. Having those guys ready for the stretch run could be key if the pitching doesn't rebound. Well, a 6.17 ERA over the last 23 games from the starters definitely hasn't helped, that's for sure. In some sense, it's amazing we are still within one-half game, if you look at it from that perspective. We've basically been treading water, between 12-16 games over .500, for much of the last two months. If we can stay within 2-3 games before Minnesota goes on their 14 game road trip (starting on August 21st), we should be okay. I am a LITTLE more optimistic about Crede than Linebrink after I read somewhere (suntimes) that Joe felt much better and had exchanged e-mails or text messages with KW to that affect.

Kip Wells was just designed for assignment by the Rockies....FWIW. He had been pitching in relief for them this year, last time he started was last season (26 of them) with the Cardinals.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 10:47 AM) I would imagine Jose will return around the ASB next year, in which case the insurance would be void. I think the insurance works based on the number of games/starts missed. Wells went down fairly early in 2001, maybe six weeks into the season...I think the White Sox ended up getting something in the neighborhood of $4-6 million back in an insurance payment. Now do we want to use that money on paying half of Washburn's salary for 2009? I would guess that Seattle can either take back half of our farm system and subsidize his contract (what ended up losing Chris Young in the Vazquez deal) or we can agree to pay it and give up very little, like the Griffey deal. Typically, JR has always sided with taking the money and giving up talent, but I don't think we can afford to do it this time. Giving up Poreda to save the money on Washburn's contract for 2009 would be a waste, IMO.

QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 11:37 AM) It sure doesnt help. Poreda trade could be the #1 way one day to make the team better instantly. It could be next trade deadline. You'll want the leverage then, for sure. Ummmm....why would we want to trade Poreda, exactly? Because he throws the ball hard and he's left-handed and someone will give us another Josh Hamilton or Carlos Quentin for him magically? It seems that developing his secondary pitches and having him pitch for the Sox (under Cooper's supervision) would be a smarter move for a team that hasn't developed another starter of their own for a decade nearly (Garland/Buerhle) If we want to develop another starter, using that theory, we should just convert Thornton. He asked to try to start when he was acquired for Borchard, he throws the easiest 95-97 in the AL and his secondary pitches are more advanced than Poreda's, which isn't saying a whole lot at this point.

QUOTE (joesaiditstrue @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 10:47 AM) doesn't matter, unless we somehow overtake 1st place with our record in the AL over the angels, we're going to be playing as the road team in every series. And with our homerun or nothing style... it will be a quick exit. this team's heavy reliance on the homerun simply does not adjust well to other ballparks, and when we don't homerun at home, we lose by large margins (see last nights game) When we don't hit at least two homers at home. I think that particular statistic is both quite dramatic and quite telling. Thome had a meaningless homer late in the game.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 10:37 AM) It doesn't hurt to pick up Ramirez, as we gave up nothing at all for him. But, I expect very little out of him. The situation the White Sox find themselves in right now is looking bleaker and bleaker. We REALLY need to get another, legitimate starter. And we'll probably need to get another reliever, but Ramirez might end up filling that void. Plus, we need Linebrink to come back healthy ASAP. If all of these things happen, we still have a good shot at making the playoffs. When the hell is Linebrink supposed to be returning, anyway? I feel like he's been out for like 3 months. At least 2-3 more weeks, if then...not looking especially optimistic. Is Hermanson finally ready, lol? We already tried Loiaza.

QUOTE (Fingish @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 10:37 AM) My math was based on the previous poster saying that Byrd was a better alternative to get us to September, when we will be able to call up some degree of help for the bullpen, even if it's just picking up the mop-up situations in blowouts. It seemed that the reasoning was someone like Byrd will keep your bullpen from getting overtaxed before expanded rosters. That puts the person who replaces Jose at making around 4 starts before the rosters are expanded. So the question of how deep a starter can get us isn't negated in September, but it certianly isn't magnified, there will be plenty of pitchers avaible to take the unimportant relief innings, leaving our core relief staff able to be rested and ready in the more important games. The point was that going for a Byrd-like pitcher wasn't going to make a giant difference if your only concern was trying to save the bullpen a little bit, even over the two months, if you don't count September call-ups as having any value in saving our relief staff, you're then talking maybe 16 extra innings pitched over two months. If our staff can't handle that much extra load, they probably aren't going to be the guys to take us all the way to the World Series anyways. I think we're already set in the inning-eater category, taking a shot on bringing up someone who could be better than a #5 starter seems to me to have a better risk/reward return on it, as the risk of over-taxing the bullpen at this stage of the season, based on the performance of 1 starter doesn't seem to be all that great, while the reward of (what appears to be Broadway) coming up and throwing lights out for 2 months is a chance to win it all. Well, this is all predicated on how the Indians' GM feels about KW and the Sox. We basically are at his mercy...if he asks for Fields/Poreda (I'm assuming they would already be claimed, at least Fields, not sure exactly how the PTBNL works) for someone like Byrd, then KW would be crazy to make that move. Obviously, we're negotiating from a position of weakness, and that's not a great strength of KW, it's unearthing hidden gems like Thornton, Loiaza, Ramirez, Danks, Floyd, Marte, Quentin, Jenks, etc. With KW's gunslinger mentality, it puts the whole organization at risk that he makes that final move to overreach and finally puts this organization into a 2-3 year rebuilding mode without even getting us to the playoffs (looks like Boston will be hard to beat for the Wild Card, too.)

QUOTE (Texsox @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 09:32 AM) Yea! $10.35 million contract for 2009, last year of the deal. About the same as we were going to pay Jose. Once again, another example of why it would be nice to have a farm system like the Twins...maybe they'll give us Bonser, lol. In all seriousness, the Yankees wanted him after 2005...and they have the first claiming rights, as their record is below ours. With all of their pitching issues (see the recent Angels series, Kennedy and Hughes' disappointment, Joba's injury), I think they might take him first, and they have more options to make the deal work at the minor league level unfortunately. Why would the M's want Fields if they already have Beltre? Unless we give up Poreda for Washburn, which would be a huge mistake, I don't think this gets done...unless the M's new management really just wants to dump his salary on someone else.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 10:11 AM) Ha, what?! Are you assuming the Royals only play hard against us, and roll over for the Tigers and Twins? Put some blame on the team that's dropping games to such a crappy opponent. The Royals really are playing better than their talent dictates....Gordon, DeJesus and Jose Guillen are about the only really solid players on that team, although Butler can hit a fastball, Grudzielanek just kills us and so has Aviles (if he had about 100 more PA, he would be threatening for the batting title...not bad for a career minor leaguer without a position). Heck, even Esteban German has elevated his average about 50 points by playing against the White Sox this year. Esteban German vs. MLB (20 for 107=.187) Esteban German vs. Chicago White Sox (10 for 31=.323) We might be the SOLE reason he's signed to a contract for next year, lol.

QUOTE (Texsox @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 09:52 AM) It seems that it takes catching lightening in a bottle to win a championship. 2005 saw a rookie closer perform beyond all expectations. Doesn't matter who we roll the dice with, the available options are all fraught with more questions then answers and all a longish shots to be productive. Fishing farther up the food chain for a more proven SP will result in digging a hole somewhere else. Here's to getting lucky Yeah, we got Jenks for free...and we lucked out with Hermanson, Politte and Cotts that year...everything just went right. Pods stayed healthy for enough of the season to build up that huge lead. I don't know much about Poreda...but Jenks was consistently ranked one of the Angels' best prospects before he forced their hand with his behavior, like the Rays cutting ties with Josh Hamilton. I tend to think someone like Poreda, or Joel Zumaya, who don't have much in the way of secondary pitches...are going to get tagged. But I'll try to think optimistically.

Send someone (not Dave Wilder!) to Beijing, along with personal entreaties from The Grand Titan de Bronze and Alexei for the best starting pitcher and reliever from the Cuban National Team, and get them to defect after the last game in the Olympics. (Hey, that's the least The Count can do to help us out...and maybe a note from Oswaldo in Spanish or an e-mail from hotmail.com wouldn't hurt). Then they can take some Russian billionaire's "stealth" yacht to the coast of California and ask for political asylum (of course, they will already have been secretly signed by KW, who will announced the Danks and Beckham signings at the same press conference from Santa Monica Pier). I'm not sure what would happen if we tried to book them tickets (if that would be allowed by MLB rules) or what would happen if they landed in an American airport without a proper entry visa. Maybe the Homeland Security officer would be a strategically placed Sox fan. Okay...well, my imagination is getting away from me! http://sea-fever.org/2008/07/17/has-that-s...street-journal/ (for a picture of the yacht I picked out for this secret Sox mission) I like this guy's style...nothing like marrying the former Miss Yugoslavia, Aleksandra Kokotovic..."Russian billionaire tied the knot in Cote D’Azure with lavish ceremony, entertainment and everything luxurious fit for a billionaire wedding reportedly worth £20 million. The wedding featured performances by Whitney Houston, Julio Iglesias, Enrique Iglesias and Christina Aguilera, who were all flown to Cannes on a private jet. Rumours circulated that he even had a church dismantled, shipped and rebuilt in France for this extravagant wedding day. Since there seems little hope for the rest of the season, I thought it would good to think positively at least.

QUOTE (Fingish @ Aug 10, 2008 -> 09:00 AM) By my count, whoever takes Jose's place, will make about 4 starts, if Paul Byrd was able to on average pitch 2 more innings per game than Poreda, that would be all of 8 innings over the course of the rest of the month that he would save the bullpen. My thought being if a bullpen can't handle an extra eight innings over the course of 20 days, then you probably aren't making it to the playoffs anyways. So give me Poreda and his higher upside, rather than the known quantity in Byrd. Sure it's a gamble, but it seems to me that most teams don't do well in the playoffs without taking a chance on some of their kids coming up and producing in key roles, a la Bobby Jenks in '05. I know that one of these days we'll call up a prospect who will floor us with his performance right out of the gate, why not let it be now, when we really need it? Are you sure your math isn't off by a bit? It should be around 8-9 more starts that we have to cover for Contreras...that situation isn't changing in September, it's only becoming more magnified. Yes, we'll have some additional bullpen help in September, but what can we realistically expect of MacDougal, Wasserman, Link, Rodriguez, etc.??? I don't think very much. Those guys will be helpful to save the "A" relievers (Jenks, Thornton, Dotel and hopefully Linebrink) in blowout losses or mop up duty, but I don't think any of them can be put into tie or even down by 1-3 run situations in the heat of a pennant race.