IlliniBob72

I also heard on a radio news report that Berg was offered a trip home by the military but he refused. Whether that is true or not, we can never really be sure, I guess.

Apu is saying that he went from US custody directly into terrorist hands. Not true. He was released by the U.S., called his folks to whom he told he wasn't treated poorly, and three days after that his communications with them ended. In another thread I was discussing the differences between Americans and our enemies. Here's another example that occured to me. There are probably 5-10 Americans in enemy hands, while we are detaining hundreds or thousands. If it were the other way around, would we publicly decapitate one of our prisoners? No, because we know it would lead to dozens of our own soldiers in captivity being beheaded. Either these terrorists don't care if we decapitate prisoners in retaliation, hope we do, or know that we won't. I am guessing the latter, though the first two options wouldn't shock me either.

Maybe Yassir the Barber can mobilize the people to effect some change.

I did read it. I found it comical.

Good Lord, Apu, are you serious? Our proxy war in Afghanistan? s***, why didn't the Kremlin take a few DC-10s, seeing as they conducted an actual war in Afghanistan? Your first three examples were 12-20 years ago. Genocide in Iraq? I think it has been well proven that Saddam and others scammed the system and did very well for themselves, at the expense of his people. Why didn't he have a plane flown into his palace? Apartheid regime in Israel? That's laughable. Of course, why would Israelis want to be separated from people bent on their destruction? How ludicrous! Those Israelis sure can be overly sensitive! Besides, there's a difference between having foreign policy contrary to the interests of a group of people and chopping off someone's head. I suppose if I chop off a liberal's head for voting against Bush in order to end the war on terrorism, I can claim, hey, your violence begets my violence.

I never mean to imply that every single breathing Iraqi was pro-corpse mutilation, but where is someone with a little bit of respect and power to state that civilized people do not act this way? Where was one person to stand up and say "Take those corpses down!" When Reginald Denny was beaten within an inch of his life for being white in a black area during the Rodney King riots, there were black people that came to his aid. Where were those type of people in Fallujah? Even when the crowd dispersed, the corpses were left hanging. Not one person came out to take them down. Of course there are Arabs that are against violence, but until a few of them are willing to say so, out loud, not anonymously, nothing will change. There seems to be a protest or a flag-burning biweekly over there, yet no one will protest the way these terrorists are helping portray their people. Either there is no will to do so or no stomach to do so. Either way, at the very least, the Middle-Eastern people have a huge public relations problem. I read today how a few Muslims said the beheading was abhorrent, while a few said it was good and/or understandable. But more importantly, Iranian news agencies were saying the west was attempting to use the beheading to deflect attention away from the prisoner abuse. This is typical. No statement whatsoever as to it's vileness. Just that it takes attention away from where it rightly belongs, Iraqis forced to wear panties on their heads. And, no offense, but spare me the "violence begets violence" pap. What violence begat 9/11? Or the U.S.S. Cole? Or the first WTC bombing? Or the African embassy attacks? It seems to this observer that sitting around with your thumb up your ass also begets violence from these psychopaths.

Well, hell's bells! I wish they would have told us that when they showed pictures of their charred corpses hanging from the bridge! I wouldn't have felt so badly about it then. I have never heard anyone use the argument that since they do s*** to our guys, we can do s*** to theirs. Like someone else said, whenever the comparison is made, it is just in the context of the Arab world being pissed off about naked pyramids but having no qualms with decapitating captured American civilians. Where is the Arab Martin Luther King? Where is the sane voice coming from the Arab street decrying such senseless murder? Is there nobody walking the streets of Amman, Cairo, or Damascus that will step up to a podium and say that the murder of "infidels" and the support and acclamation of people who murder infidels is wrong? The fact that there isn't is telling. Americans see Iraqi criminals sit on each other naked and feel sickened and outraged. People in the Arab countries, as far as I can tell, see Americans mutilated, burned, and hacked to pieces and dance in the streets. And yet we refrain from going medieval on them. In the annals of history, that is rare.

I grew up in that area. Really sad to read the father talk about him. I can't imagine how he feels right now.

It needs to be part of the contract that Warner will leave his goblin wife in St. Louis.

My main beef is with the statement that Ozzie has a better bullpen and starting rotation to work with than Manuel had. Huh??? I don't see how replacing Colon with Schoe makes the rotation better. Nor do I think that losing Gordon from the pen improves things. I think that is way off-base.

:puke I am speechless. I am...without speech.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-ligue04.html

I agree with everything said here. I am against what happened based on the fact that it doesn't reflect well on the U.S. Is it torture in the breaking fingers, breaking bodies on the rack sense? No. Would I want to go through what the prisoners went through? No. I do suppose that things need to be done to get information from people who have it and won't divulge it willingly. I guess time and the fact that it appears this was done for a purpose and not on the whims of some soldiers looking for a good time has softened my stance on this. The soldiers smiling and posing for pictures are disgusting nonetheless.

Aren't the housing projects across the Dan Ryan coming down in the next few years? That will improve The Cell more than anything else.

Did 60 Minutes do the right thing by running the story when they did? I am not calling for covering the story up by any means, but with a U.S. soldier in the hands of Iraqi insurgents, should they have held off on the story. I feel sad when I think about that unfortunate man and his family after those photos were released to the world. 60 Minutes may as well have signed his death warrant. Also, what do people think should be done to the soldiers involved in the torture? If their actions lead to more attacks and the murder of the soldier in captivity, should they be charged with capital crimes? It would be hard to prove that their actions directly led to any subsequent deaths. Whatever is done to them needs to be overwhelming. A dishonorable discharge will not prove to the world that the United States does not operate that way. Their actions have been so harmful to the United States that no punishment is too severe, IMO.

I've always told myself to not let people's stupidity shock you, yet I am in this case. Of course, the torture disgusts me, but what amazes me is taking pictures of it with yourself smiling and giving the thumbs up. It is akin to the goofs that videotape their crime sprees. That idiot who blamed it on his higher-ups for not instructing him on how to treat the prisoners really amazes me. They didn't tell him not to have them pose in sexual positions, so he thought it was OK? They should all be locked away for a very long time. What they did was not only a crime against the Iraqi victims, but against the United States as well.

Shut the hell up.

I understand that, Apu. I wasn't talking about him, specifically. I don't know what his motivation was. I will check it out, but I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that they aren't being shown in a memorial sense. I'd be interested to find out how many times they are being shown in a respectful way (if more than one site is in fact showing them) and how many are being used for political purposes. Tex has already stated that he's seen the photos doctored. Doesn't sound respectful.

Let's not confuse this issue with recognizing and honoring the dead. People who want to publish pictures of flag-draped coffins are not interested in recognizing the dead. All the soldiers who have given their lives are honored. I know that whenever a local soldier from here loses his or her life, their picture is in the newspaper and several stories are written about them and their sacrifice. If anyone wants to learn more about those who have sacrificed their lives, the information is readily accessible. The death toll is published every day, so it isn't like the cost of the war is being hidden from the public. So tell me, when the pictures of these coffins were published by whomever showed them, were the identities of the soldiers inside also given? I don't know the answer, but I strongly doubt it. Tell me, has these photos been put to the use of honoring those deceased soldiers or has it been used for political purposes? The pictures will be used to create political hay, which is just the opposite of honoring those soldiers.

Thanks to all. Getting him tonight at 6, so starting tonight there may be some late night posts from me. haha

Riverside and Plattsburgh? Where are those places??? South of North Riverside?

Our baby boy, Noah Samuel, was born last Thursday, April 8th, at 7:19 AM. He weighed 8 lb 7 oz. and was 20" long. He had pneumonia and has been in the ICU for the past week, but after steady improvement we expect to bring him home tonight, so we're thrilled. Now if Billy Koch could learn how to pitch, my life would be perfect! LOL

I like to tell my 3-year old to stop stomping around the house like he's a dinosaur. I also like to be ignored by my 3-year old.

It's not the best way to start a season, but what are ya gonna do? Pollitte looked good until he ran out of gas, I am not going to worry about Marte, and hopefully Ozzie will learn from this. The Yankees got shelled by the Rays their first game, it happens. It's just too bad this had to happen against the Royals.

North has too many contests on his show. There is no worse radio than listening to goof after goof try to guess which 5 NBA teams will cover the spread, or which three baseball players will total 10 hits on a night, etc. Half his show is filler like that.