ILMOU

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 11:01 AM) Salty would be a win-now move, and there's no point to that right now. Abreu isnt young-young but there's still a win-later component to it that goes along with the plan of Avi, Semien etc No, it's a win in 2015 and 2016 and maybe now move. Sammy Ayala, our only legit upside C in the system, is at least that far away, if he ever makes it at all. Next year's catching FA's are even less thrilling as a group. We must make a trade for C, and the current options all have many fleas.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 4, 2013 -> 07:31 AM) Again, compare De Aza to Fowler. What am I missing? Fowler has been a product of Coors Field for years now. He's likely getting $10+ mill a year following the season for 3-5 years. That is $10 mill a year that could be spent far more efficiently. Fowler is a substantial upgrade over DeAza defensively, but has been nothing but enigmatic overall here - just when you think he's turning a corner at the plate, he has another slump. He's also not the base stealer he should be with his speed. Oldsox and I have probably seen him more than anyone else here, 100's of games - I'm not crying over our lack of pursuit here. What say you Oldsox, if you're with us this morning?

It's not that this completely screws over roster flexibility or is otherwise a crippling move to a team not expected to compete, but, imo, it reflects a pandering to the sentimental segment of the fanbase and an ownership mindset where winning is not the top priority, at least not anymore - maybe if JR was still as ring-hungry as he was pre 2005.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 3, 2013 -> 07:46 PM) $7m per year is paying him to be less than a 2WAR player -- who wouldn't take the over on that? Talk an opportunity to solidify the C position for several years at almost no risk... I thought the plan was to make long-term upgrades, this feels like a major missed opportunity. This, and not "salty sucks". A .795 career OPS against RHP would be extremely useful for 3 years at 21 mil, regardless of defensive mediocrity - compares well to the high 500's OPS we're likely to see from Flow-gley. 200 points difference ain't chopped liver, sorry. Unless we upgrade otherwise at C, we've really screwed the pooch here. The Konerko return also has me bummed. Show me something, Rick!!!

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 3, 2013 -> 03:17 PM) If he's getting that kind of money then no one liked him. Noone but me, apparently. Had forgotten about Grandal's PEDs. Not liking the dwindling options at all. 3/21 seems so low in this mkt. I can't quite fathom it.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 3, 2013 -> 02:54 PM) Salty is a Marlin. Hopefully it's Grandal, Jaso, Rosario, Castro in that order. Damn, things happening lightning fast today. So many teams getting the heavy lifting done so early, hopefully we're making our move soon. I'm guessing Grandal "costs" more than Jaso, no?

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 3, 2013 -> 02:50 PM) I am sure by the time I post this SS2K5 will already have posted but... Marc Topkin @TBTimes_Rays: No Lobaton deal for now. #Rays Friedman said catching situation will sort itself out, that its not ideal but they could to go to spring w/all 3 Yeah, back to Jaso, then Salty, in that order, I hope.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 3, 2013 -> 02:16 PM) How are his on base skills better than AJ's ever was, yet AJ has a higher career OBP? Am I missing something? Recent sample, Ok, but his '13 OBP of .338 was higher than any AJ year with the Sox. I was thinking of Jaso for the OBP actually , but Salty's OPS increase last year is encouraging - high BABIP in '13, but better line drive and lower pop-up rates, from what I read, so maybe not luck. Some folks think he was "lucky", some think he has figured something out. Maybe he was juicing in a contract year, for all I know. I'm in a gambling mood, and the Lobotomy (pre-coined nickname for Lobaton when he makes his 1st major Sox goof) upside isn't thrilling me.

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 3, 2013 -> 01:59 PM) Marc Topkin ‏@TBTimes_Rays 1m As of now, anyway, Lobaton is still with #Rays. https://twitter.com/TBTimes_Rays I hope it stays that way.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 3, 2013 -> 01:06 PM) Greg, his talent has nothing to do with it at all. We all like AJ, he's a decent player -- but our team blows and we needmore than a stopgap solution at C. The Red Sox, on the other hand, JUST won the world series and needed to replace a lefty platoon catcher to compete again next year. The deal makes sense for them, not us -- and it has nothing to do with disagreeing on AJ having value. This, exactly. And the hate for Salty is just silly. He's not some loser who's never won before. He was benched in the WS because he was in a slump. Slumps happen, and managers have to go with their gut in short series. He was good enough to have just played 119 games for the World Champions, and he brings the kind of on-base skills we severely need. He is much better in this regard than AJ ever was. His career caught stealing percentage is similar to AJ. But this isn't the most important fielding stat, especially for our pitching staff. It has been discussed frequently in various recent articles that pitchers actions have much more to do with preventing stolen bases than catchers' actions. Any ardent fan of Hawk, or frequent listener to Hawk's telecasts knows this. Left handed pitchers, historically, are much, much better at preventing stolen bases than right handed pitchers, and our starting staff, with one caveat, is no exception. Danks, Quintana, and Santiago are all excellent in regards to very lower SB/inning and high CS%. Sale, because of a longish delivery time, is not, but overall we figure to be very good in this area, regardless of who is behind the dish. And we need Lexi to field catchers' throws closer to the bag, but I digress. There was a statistic displayed a few years ago about AJ's CS% in his years with the Sox. No lie, it was something like 55% when MB56 was on the mound, and slightly below 20% for everybody else combined. That should tell a Buehrle fan what he should know already. Since AJ has likely caught more innings of Mark than any other pitcher, subtracting out those numbers would probably give Salty the slight nod. But that would be unfair - AJ also caught Gavin in '08 when he was the worst runner-holder in the game, so there's that More important to our defensive needs at catcher, imo, is limiting the total of PB's and WP's - balls that get past the catcher. In this area, Salty is historically a bit better than AJ, with the anomaly of 2011, when I believe Salty was catching Wakefield. He's also slightly better than Flowers, and a lot better than Phegley, who is simply horrid in this area.

QUOTE (staxx @ Dec 3, 2013 -> 12:35 PM) I'd say so. I would be comfortable with it Yes, and yes. Make it happen.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 12:40 PM) Not for long. One week from today we have the Winter Meetings. 10 days from now we have the 3rd pick in the Rule 5 draft. Hang in there! Thx man, I feel a lot better. I think Jaso is my biggest, semi-realistic hope, followed by Salty. And whoever we target for lefty relief, if that is in fact that is a priority as I hope

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 12:53 AM) You can only go to Soxtalk, SSS , MLBtraderumors, CSN, CBSsports, ESPNChicago so many times before you look at B/R for anything new I haven't already seen about my Sox. True, and hilarious. It's a lonely, desolate winter.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 1, 2013 -> 08:30 PM) I see the idea that the Sox had a good pitching staff this year brought up a lot, but it was actually in the lower half of teams (9th ERA, 11th in FIP, 9th in xFIP). There are some arms that are likely to improve on those numbers (Danks) and replacements should put up better numbers than others (whoever for Axelrod), but the pitching can still improve drastically. There are some good pieces in place, but I think next year could be pretty similar pitching wise, especially if they deal a starter (like I expect them to). The team's ranking within the league dropped off steadily throughout the season, and was much higher through most of it. Yes, there's room for a lot of improvement. Losing 128 innings of horrid Axelrod (and you know the second half of his season is especially horrid, because the first half wasn't), 138 innings of the "meatball version" of Danks, and 5 starts from an injured Floyd can go a long way toward that improvement. We have a group of young starters more prepared to pitch effectively through a longer stretch of the season than we've had in some time. Last year's inning totals for our top 7 "kids" (all prof. leagues included): Sale 214, up from 192 in '12 Q 200, up from 185 Hector 149, up from 85 EJohnson 170, up from 92 Rienzo 169, up from 103 Bassitt ~170, up from 91 Beck 147, up from 40 (not incl. college innings, didn't bother to look) Didn't include Danks here as he's a special case of injury recovery. If he's effective, then he shouldn't have too much difficulty ramping back into the 200 inning range where he resided from '08 to '10. In a nutshell, we should have little to none fatigue effects this year dragging down the late-season numbers. The bulk of the conditioning has already been accomplished. IF we are competitive, and I know that's not super-likely, we shouldn't falter because the staff is "out of gas".

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 1, 2013 -> 06:59 AM) I know I'll get flamed for this, but I'd seriously consider jumping into the Cano market IF the Yankees move on and sign a different major free agent instead. IMO, the only way Cano gets an insane deal is if the Yankees essentially bid against themselves, which is what Cano's agents are clearly pushing for night now. Take them out of the bidding process and you have a completely different market for him. Still unlikely we'd be able to pull off a deal, but I at least hope Hahn would be talking to Cano's agents. Not by me. I think you've recognized the key caveat.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 1, 2013 -> 04:29 PM) Top 150 starting pitchers 131. Danks , 58. Quintana , 5. Sale. Santiago wasn't among the 150 which seems curious considering he had 1 more start than Danks and pitched better but Danks also didnt pitch in relief. Also no Eik Johnson and they do put some prospects in the list most notable Archie Bradley who they ranked 47th This list seems the most open to arguments. Pitchers list has some ridiculous overrates: headlined by Hamels (13) , Bailey (15), Garza(43) and Samardzija (34), LOL . Of course, it will be bad luck, again, when these guys allow many more runs, again, than their basic numbers would seem to indicate. Some guys suck out of the stretch or are otherwise distracted with men on base. Fip and xFip were invented by these guys' agents.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Dec 1, 2013 -> 01:19 PM) It's from Bleacher Report, so it really shouldn't be taken too seriously anyway. Yeah, I gotta pay more attention. I tend to not read the words in links. Based on the D metrics, which I'm no fan of, I think he'd likely rate better for LFers, but I could be mistaken.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Dec 1, 2013 -> 11:14 AM) Alejandro De Aza named 37th best CF in baseball out of 40 http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1755728...center-fielders Would he do worse or better among the list of LF'ers do you think? Just curious.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 30, 2013 -> 02:01 PM) While I agree with that majority of your post we don't really have a "massive" young core or "tons" of good, young players. As far as players in the bigs... We have an ace in Chris Sale and that is the hardest thing in baseball to acquire. Plus, he is signed to one of the best team-friendly contracts in baseball. We have a solid 2-3 in Jose Quintana. While I am in a bit more skeptical than most he is very nice piece to any rotation. We have two middle of the rotation, cost controlled starters who both have the potential for a good 2/3 if everything falls their way in Hector Santiago and Erik Johnson. I am not ready to say the same about Andre Rienzo but with our organization's track record with pitching I wouldn't be surprised if he stuck as a serviceable 5. We have a cost controlled closer who could hold his own in Addison Reed. On the hitting side... I really think we found a middle of the order stud in Jose Abreu but the jury is still out. Then there is Avisail Garcia, who I am not as sold on as most, but he has the potential to be some type of a Juan Encarnacion/Alex Rios/Magglio Ordonez right fielder and hold up the 5 spot in the order. That's pretty much it as far as young talent. Otherwise we have some mid-tier talent on the cusp of making it into the bigs like Marcus Semien, Daniel Webb, Chris Beck and maybe Chris Bassit. So we have an Ace, a #2 and a couple of good options for the back of the rotation. Along with a closer in the bullpen. Then we probably have a strong middle of the order type and maybe a good RF who could 5-6 in the order. Not a ton of talent in any way. I mostly agree that the core isn't massive, but nor is it barren. With a reasonable degree of luck, we'll have a whole host of pitching prospects and several current 25 man roster-spot holders that could gain some value or a lot of value in the first few months of the season. And we'll want to trade them, because we should have reasonably ready replacements at their positions. I'm talking about guys like Danks, Beckham, Reed and Keppinger, specifically, and DeAza, maybe, assuming they all survive the offseason. And Lexi is still under contract for a few years and could be considered "core" if he returns to elite defensive play, and isn't asked to carry a large offensive load. And Viciedo is still a potential positive as he remains inexpensive and under control. I remain optimistic. Upgrade at catcher and LHRP, and maybe 3B, let the kids fight it out in ST for the 24th and 25th spots, a couple bullpen spots, and possibly the 5th starter, reevaluate in early June, and be ready to wheel and deal at that time.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 11:55 AM) I don't understand why you can't try to win and strengthen your minor league system at the same time. I can understand laying off some player because you have a prospect ready to give it a whirl at the major league level, but the Sox prospects are having problems hitting .200 in the minor leagues. There really isn't an OF that seems like he should be ready to roll this year or next. This. And if I knew how to multi-quote, your previous post as well. Vast improvements/declines in various aspects of the game from one year to the next happen A LOT. Look at our team's defense in '13 vs. '12, for instance - we went from best to worst. But I don't want Grandy at this stage of his career. A better, LH, catcher and a veteran lefty reliever, and I'm ready to call it an offseason. I think we may be better off waiting til mid-season for other moves, though I wouldn't mind Headley at the right trade price, if a willingness to extend before FA is expressed. Oh, and I really don't want to give up that 2nd round pick. Our last three second-round picks are Erik Johnson, Chris Beck and Tyler Danish, all of whom may be long-term fixtures in our rotation, or figure to be among our very best trade chips. A couple years of Grandy ain't worth that.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 10:51 AM) Which is extremely old for someone to go from a sub-replacement player to an effective Major Leaguer. Yes. We're talking increments of probability. And Phegley's age plus perceived lost time due to recovery from debilitating illness make him a more likely candidate for improvement. And otherwise, they're roughly the same player, so we don't need both of them anyway.

QUOTE (flavum @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 10:10 AM) It depends on the rest of the roster, but I'd rather take a chance on Granderson to have a couple good years than watch De Aza or Viciedo play. This team needs a personality change too. And it wouldn't hurt to bring in a guy like Granderson for the right price. He can bring some value other than just his numbers. But again, we'll know soon enough where he's going. My guess is somebody will offer him 3 guaranteed years in the 40-45 range, and he'll take it. I don't want that team to be the Sox. Yes, it's painful to watch Dayan in the field and often at the dish, and here's hoping we can transition him to DH eventually, but to give up on his bat's potential at 24 is wrong, imo. Much, much agreement on the bolded, which is Exhibit A for why I don't want Paulie on the roster in '14. And before anyone starts in, I looove me some #14, but his time has passed.

QUOTE (Baron @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 07:09 AM) Oh absolutely on Tyler Flowers....his grace period is over.He's been with this organization for quite some time now. Phegley may get a chance to stick around. But I would keep him as a backup. This. Phegley is young enough that significant improvement is still a semi-realistic possibility.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 27, 2013 -> 11:18 PM) I don't think catcher upgrade is a huge priority right now. God, I hope this is false. Might as well punt the season, if true. I don't like punting whole seasons.

QUOTE (Jake @ Nov 27, 2013 -> 12:18 PM) FWIW, Melky was always s***ty until that season. Peralta has had a smattering of decent seasons before last year, so if they think he only used last season then they might think that it at least isn't an impossibility that he has had good offensive seasons drug-free before. Or maybe they know it was just a flukey paper trail that got him caught, and he should be able to cheat to the level he always has without getting caught again, unless he's really, really dumb about it.