ILMOU

QUOTE (chw42 @ Nov 25, 2013 -> 10:17 AM) Also got suspended for PEDs. I knew I knew that name from somewhere. That was recent too. Biogenesis. I like Jaso as trade target.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 25, 2013 -> 10:14 AM) Yasmani Grandal's career splits-slash in an admittedly small sample size (229 PAs). at Petco:.255/.361/.397.759 away from Petco:.288 /.399/.460/.859 This guy should be a top target. Coming off an injury and a non-spectacular season. Has the OBP, has the power and supposedly decent defensive chops. He's had pretty good success so far and he has a strong pedigree. Sounds good to me. He and Headley together would solve the left-handedness issue. What would it take?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 21, 2013 -> 02:39 PM) We only have one open spot on the 40 man roster. Catcher or lefty reliever.

Don't want his bug-eyed, roider, lying, backstabbing ass on the Sox. Bargain or no.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 20, 2013 -> 01:43 PM) The 1.794 Whip wasn't exactly not bad. Saw him plenty here in CO. He's done, imo. Baker is a much better idea for me.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 20, 2013 -> 12:47 PM) Then again, if you actually paid attention to how the Sox dealt with him last year (actually the last 2 years) until they finally were forced to give him a starting spot, you can make an equally strong case that he'll get significantly better. Yes. That and a good number of "tired innings" at the end of this season, as his 2013 total far exceeded his previous year's total. His late season performances dragged down numbers that had been looking much better earlier. Especially in regards to his command/control. Remember, Coop's philosophy is to keep pitching guys, in order to build their endurance for becoming full-time starters, even if they're losing some effectiveness, as long as they're not having the wrong kind of soreness. Now, Hector may have issues of command that perhaps the org doesn't think he'll overcome and reach his potential, in which case he's likely gone, but otherwise, I really want to see him get a legit shot in 2014.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 20, 2013 -> 11:36 AM) I think Hector's value will never be higher. He is a year away from arbitration, and is about to get much more expensive, with no real idea what kind of player he will end up being. More expensive, but still relatively cheap. And the Sox WILL have a much a much better idea of what he'll end up being before having to make the commitment. I just think we're better off waiting a little while longer for this particular player.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 20, 2013 -> 11:44 AM) Even though I fall into the believers that Samardzija is overrated, I doubt many GMs believe Hector is more valuable than Samardzija. I think with Hector there's a bust factor that you don't have with Samardzija. Hector could very well outperform him next year but could also get shelled next year and no one would really be surprised. Essentially, Santiago's potential output has much more variability and Samaradzija has a great frame and decent pedigree that Hector lacks. If you're trying to make a playoff run next year I think you're in a safer spot with Samaradzija at the #3 spot in your rotation. Just my two cents. You're probably right, which is why we probably shouldn't trade Hector. He's extremely undervalued relative to his performance, imo, and is no where near the finished product that JS is, relatively speaking. Pedigree, schmedigree, Shark is 3 months older than John Danks, who was dominating in the playoffs when Shark was a minnow. The more you watch Shark, the more he looks like Javy, plus a cool nickname. One bad inning/pitch excuses get old. This is a guy with way more perceived value than deserved, and as a power pitcher, may be in noticeable decline within 2-3 seasons. Ridiculous, imo. Buyer beware.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 20, 2013 -> 07:59 AM) I think Santiago might be at the top of the possibilities. The guys above him (Sale and Q) are pretty much promised to be here. The guys below him don't have as much value to other teams. The Sox have pitching they can move, and if they can get a real 3B or C for Santiago, you almost have to do it. I agree that Santiago is our most valuable trade chip, but I'd think we'd be selling low on him, when he might be just entering his prime. And, I want to wait to see what the market is before selling him at all, if that's the way Hahn chooses to go. Specifically, I want to see what the Cubs get for Samardzija. Santiago is 3 years younger, left handed, has better career stats overall, 2.8 WAR vs. 1 WAR in '13, and has 4 yrs of team control vs. 2. GM's are overpaying for strikeout guys though, like JS, and he'll bring them an excellent haul, I'd imagine. Just fear we're going to undersell Hector, who also has a real nice K rate, because of our depth in starters. Until June of next season, at least, I'd like to trade at the level of Rienzo on down (Milb'ers) in the pitching ranks. Assuming a reasonable bounceback of his stuff after this offseason, I think the plan needs to be trading Danks after he reestablishes some value next season. Big contacts for guys like Ervin Santana this offseason will help the Sox cause in unloading him, if he returns to mid-rotation form. Dude's only 29, and will have ~$32M left on his deal for 2 years plus the remaining ~60 games, if dealt in July. We'll then have three lefties in the rotation moving forward for the near future, which isn't a bad thing. The remainder of the rotation figures to be righty with Johnson/Rienzo/Bassitt/Beck, the likely next guys up, depending on who gets dealt/acquired. I really would like to see Hector perform after his first offseason of preparing as a full-time starter. He's a hard worker with a great attitude and he should be hitting his prime. He's been yo-yo'd around the staff too much - this is his opportunity to step up, like Q did last year.

I like the Jaso idea better than Salty, for the right price. I like both ideas MUCH better than going with what we currently have.

Bill Nahorodny

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Nov 13, 2013 -> 03:51 PM) Might wanna temper those expectations a bit. Nah, I'm going all in on the Dane. He'll eventually be regarded as the steal of the '13 draft, and the upshot of it will be the gutlessness of other orgs who passed on guys like he and Sale due to wrong-headed mechanics generalizations. I trust that the org doesn't take Tyler in Round 2 if Coop doesn't give his blessing, and I trust Coop.

I put together my own prospect list recently, based on a three-pronged, highly scientific, criteria of potential impact, combined with perceived likelihood of overcoming development issues and making it to the show, combined withy my excitement level in following their progress. It also contains a bias towards pitching, based on decades of horrible position player development. I'm putting EJohnson, Semien, Webb, Abreu and the Garcia's as non-prospects, expecting most or all of these to be on the opening day roster. 1. Danish 2. Beck 3. T. Anderson 4. M. Johnson 5. Hawkins 6. Tr. Thompson 7. Barnum 8. Bassitt 9. M. Adolfo 10. J. May 11. Snodgress 12. C. Sanchez 13. B. Ortiz 14. B. Jacobs 15. J. Olacio 16. J. Petricka 17. A. Lopez 18. A. Engel 19. S. Ayala 20. K. Hansen 21. M. Jaye 22. J. Cose 23. R. Ravelo 24. K. Walker 25. J. Mitchell (due to AFL performance ONLY), replaces Santos Rodriguez Fundamentally, I believe that the SPEED TOOL will be soon be valued much greater than it is currently (will start a thread on this soon, I know you're happy for me), and dare I say that our frequently obtuse and dysfunctional org may actually be ahead of the curve in this regard. Thus, my "crazy high" placement of Micah, but don't let that stop you from flaming away.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 13, 2013 -> 01:58 PM) Jason Parks ‏@ProfessorParks 1h Don't overlook RHP Tyler Danish in #ChiSox system. #6 in that org for me. Unconventional, but everything moves and he can spot it up. I expect him to make his first appearance in 2015 and be a second ace to Sale by 2016. Not asking too much am I?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 13, 2013 -> 02:24 PM) Then they don't believe that Saltalamacchia is worth $14.1 million for this season. I don't either. If they are waiting for prospects, then they won't feel he is worth $40 million over 4 years. I do. I'd rather the Sox pay $28-32 million, but I hope they'd be willing to go as high as $40 million. If not, I'm not going to be upset. Maybe they're willing to go to $44 million, maybe only $24 million, maybe only 3 years. No matter what, Saltalamacchia is not going to make me upset. It's like you are trying to say "I disagree with you that Saltalamacchia is worth $40 million," and you are doing everything in your power to not actually say it. It's fine if you don't think he is worth that. It's fine if you don't think he's worth $24 million. I am not going to care if the Sox don't sign him and he signs for less than that elsewhere. All I am saying is that I'd be willing to give him a $40 million deal if I were in charge of the White Sox. I'm on the same page here, Wite. If not Salty, though, an upgrade over Flow-Gley is still the biggest offseason imperative for this fan.

QUOTE (Baron @ Nov 4, 2013 -> 01:58 PM) Yep just seals the deal for me on him and Granderson(received a QO). Salty makes plenty of sense and now you dont have to give up a draft pick. Time to increase the team's salinity. We can platoon him if we want, and he'll still get 130 games in our heavily right handed (other than Sox) division, no problem.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Nov 2, 2013 -> 12:01 PM) Without looking to deep into it Juan Pierre hit .307/.351/.371 with 37 SB at age 34. Coco Crisp just put up a 4 WAR season at age 34. Kenny Lofton and Tim Raines are decent comps to Ellsbury, imo, and I think they put up some nice seasons well into their 30's. Don't think the Sox will go that deep for another FA, though. Would jump on Salty at the right price and years. Do we still forfeit a draft pick with a signing at his level?

It's a pitching thread guys, not to be a d**k. De Aza truly is the hot-button, most polarizing player these days and I can understand his value while not underestimating the frustration of his abject dumbness at numerous times last year. He was so much better defensively in 12 and on the bases (not so much in SB % but otherwise) that I can see him having a turnaround season, and possibly be more valuable in trade next July. One thing that might help him is focusing on CF only - I thought he was better there than left. Nonetheless, he's not an ideal leadoff guy for the Hahn regime due to OBP, so I'd like to see him in a 7 or 8 role eventually, if not at the start of the 2014, because right now, there may not be any better options for us. His speed is still an asset in various ways and his occasional power is also nice, so I don't mind seeing him stick around for a little while, while still keeping a year and a half of arb-time for trade value. I believe we're going to see a dramatic increase in the valuation of speed in the next few seasons, and perhaps even the Sox could be a leader in preparing for such a trend. Now I'm guilty. Dude's a conundrum.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 1, 2013 -> 02:31 PM) http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=...=&players=0 Not too surprising. And the future bodes well with the system depth and Coop at the helm. I happen to love Tyler Danish and think he'll be special, soon. Think Uehara with a starter's repertoire. Movement>>>velocity.

Cubanooooo....YES!! Great to see you back on the board.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 05:00 PM) Not necessarily. Obviously if he fully recovers, he is probably worth the contract. But if he were a free agent right now no one, including the Sox,would give him what he is currently owed. They may think he will be fine, but they don't know he will be fine. No team is going to take him unless the Sox eat a lot of money. He will be a White Sox next season. This is most likely the case. It makes sense for the Sox to wait. But if he does return to form early next season, I think he'll be out of here rather quickly. A nice wave of pitching talent from the system shouldn't be too far away. If we can get out of the last 2-2 1/2 years of Danks, coupled with Dunn's departure, we'll be cash-flush buyers again next offseason.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 04:27 PM) One thing that hasn't been stated in this thread is that if the white sox are willing to dump Danks rather than giving his value a chance to recover...it could be because they don't believe his value will recover based on what they may know of him. Exactly, that's why I caveat-ed with the expectations of the braintrust as to Danks' probable improvement. Of course, maybe they don't have anything better than the Magic 8 Ball I'm using - I believe there's not a lot of precedence for this specific injury if I read ptatc correctly. At any rate, the Jays must understand this, and Danks is likely a "shared risk" for both clubs if traded this offseason. The perceived advantage for the Sox (besides plugging 3B hole with Lawrie), if it happens, is that it frees up the money NOW to go after the current crop of FA's, and maybe they like their chances with a certain FA from this group, rather than what will be available at the end of 14. An interesting situation.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 02:51 PM) http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/break...story?track=rss Here's hoping they have to wait another century. I don't have a horse in this race, but I really feel like a Boston victory means another PEDS-tainted WS. They've been absolutely CARRIED by Big Steroid, the last vestige of the Bonds/Sosa/McGwire era that most of us are trying to forget. He would be treated as such if he didn't play for the ultimate media-darling franchise. Instead, he's embraced. Now, I don't KNOW that Papi's still juicing, and I don't know if his team is cheating more or less than the Cardinals, or not at all, but color me big-time skeptical. Remember, Biogenesis is ONE clinic in ONE city in ONE country, and the culprits were only caught due to the paper trail, NOT due to failed tests. Within the past several months on this board I read that Paul Konerko was tested 11 times in a single season and had to supply the bodily fluids within 24 hours of notification - that sounds pretty good for weeding out the cheaters. THEN I'm made to understand that the modern roids only create a detectable testosterone flare for 12 hours, with nothing detectable thereafter. It seems to me that a cheating player would have to be rather obtuse to actually fail a test, and that this dovetails with the lack of test fails that we've seen. If the Biogenesis thing has any long-term significance, it's not that it marked the end of an era as many would like us to believe, it's just that the cheaters shouldn't be dumb enough to buy from semi-legitimate businesses that keep records. Sorry for the OT rant.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 01:35 PM) I am perfectly content going into 2013 with Danks at #2 to #4 on the depth chart for the starting rotation. If he pitches like a 3 or 2, he should become very "moveable" again as a 29 y.o. with a decent pedigree,. I don't know that we wouldn't be better off waiting until he shows a return to form, if, in fact, that's what the braintrust expects from him. OTOH...

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 30, 2013 -> 01:25 PM) Ortiz is part of the first forays into the DR since the Wilder disaster. He is interesting for that reason alone, but the kid seems to have a big arm and projectionalble stuff. Awesome site, thanks for the tip. I'll be wasting a lot of my time there. Ortiz is a guy I'll be following very closely. Outside of Danish, he and Olacio have perhaps the greatest upside of our lower minors arms. Very projectionificable.