TLAK

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jan 6 @ 2006 -> 05:56 PM) damn crook took our million bucks and spent 2005 in AAA. Wasnt he an overall #1 draft pick? Let the Yankees have him and his gigantic hole in his swing. QUOTE(daa84 @ Jan 6, 2006 -> 06:44 PM) #2 overall i believe...and he didnt even play for AAa which was teh worst part, i think he was hurt most of the year The poor guy had Tommy John surgery. I know it didn't work out for the Sox but give him a break, he didn't do it on purpose.

QUOTE(RME JICO @ Jan 5, 2006 -> 09:11 PM) Sorry, it is an Army term derived from Ash and Trash that I probably use too often. It means other missions, or secondary missions. Cool. I had never heard the term before so I took it literally. I feel like Emily Litella. But, I also think the bottom of roster played a key role on the '05 team and even though that now I know what the hell you were talking about, I'm concerned that it may prove a weakness next season.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jan 5, 2006 -> 08:32 PM) I would. They were all pretty useless last year overall. And they've been replaced with better players. We know you hate what KW is doing, but c'mon. I'm pretty much past that and while hopeful for next year, don't think the season will be a slam dunk (it wouldn't be if the old team had stayed intact either). That trash remark just hit a nerve.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jan 5, 2006 -> 08:32 PM) Well ass and trash is a bit harsh but... Frank Thomas really didnt play much at all, Everett sucks Thome is a big upgrade, El Duque really was dissapointing besides one relief appearance in the playoffs, same story with Blum sucked besides that 1 hit, Timo blows period, Marte was the weakest link and worse than his era indicated, Willie wasnt even on the major league team a lot of the season..... Vizcaino might hurt losing he was damn good in the 2nd half if I remember right. Isn't it amazing such a poor team won 99 games?

I would not class Frank Thomas, Carl Everett, Orlando Hernandez, Geoff Bloom, Timo Perez, Damaso Marte, Willie Harris and Luis Vizcaino as 'ass and trash'. I'm surpised this @#$% comes from you because your other posts are almost always well thought out. Your Winshare post put the new team 0.76 wins, not even one game, above the 'ass and trash' team. I also fear Rowand may prove to have been the heart of that team. Further, I don't think you can predict the toughness of the 2006 schedule using the 2005 records, just the Central could be a lot harder. The Royals acquired some good vets and can you guarantee Detroit and Minny have the same injuries as last year? Will Cleveland play only half the year again? The 'ass and trash' went 52-22 in the division last year, I think that will be tough to match. It really pains me to see guys dis a big part of the best team in baseball as 'ass and trash'.

Two years ago a lady brought her Chiuaua to Dog Day. She showed up early to watch BP and Roger Bossard was still rolling the grass. The dog jumped out of her arms, ran on the field to Roger‘s riding mower and knocked over the fuel can. The dog lapped up a about pint of it and started running around and around and around the bases. Then it fell over dead. The hysterical lady ran out on the field and cried “Roger what happened?” He replied “I guess he ran out of gas.”

QUOTE(JoshPR @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 12:30 PM) Ohhh. Thanks for the Info. So he never made Pro Ball? After not sigining with the SOx? We are still talking Tom Gorzelanny right? The Pirates signed him as an undrafted free agent (after Triton Junior college) and he made the bigs last September. I don't know if he will stick this spring, but he's a good one to keep an eye on.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 03:34 PM) Byrnes is a horrible defensive LF.. it'll be scary seeing him in CF, especially for that money. Over/Under on how long before Chris Young takes over?

QUOTE(RME JICO @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 02:44 PM) Even using worse case scenarios it is hard to project anything less than 92 wins. Well done, and you are being conservative. I see you are including Paulie's bad season from a couple years ago and Thome's injury year in the averages, no cherry picking here. Like all statistics, winshares measure past performance, and there is no guarentee they will repeat, or that a bunch of guys won't get hurt. There is also no predicting a breakout year -say Crede plays the whole season like he did in October. So they still will need to play the games. We can be berry, berry hopeful on the upcoming season, I still like last year's team better but thats just me looking through my champaign stained glasses.

QUOTE(JoshPR @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 08:29 PM) Cool, OK. Maybe i'm thinking about Brian Meadows. Ohh and who in the Heck is Tom Gorzelanny? He's a lefty pitcher who never actually signed with the Sox but his name stuck with me because he is a local boy out of Marist and Triton JC.

QUOTE(JoshPR @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 05:51 PM) Didn't mention Brian Boeringer who i think pitched for the pirates this year You had me going, he was a 4th round Da by the Sox in 1991 but it turns out he didn't appear in '05. He was released by the Pirates Nov 2004.

I come up with 38 guys that the Sox drafted or signed as an amatuer free agent who played in the bigs in 2005. Three made the All Star team. There are probably a few more FA's I missed, and also not everyone they drafted signed, but on the whole they've developed some pretty good players. Player date TranRef draftRound debut AllStar Tom Gorzelanny 6/2/2000 Draft Am 38 2005-09-20 Josh Rupe 6/2/2002 Draft Am 3 2005-09-16 Brian N. Anderson 6/2/2003 Draft Am 1 2005-08-16 Mike Morse 6/2/2000 Draft Am 3 2005-05-31 Brandon McCarthy 6/2/2002 Draft Am 17 2005-05-22 Royce Ring 6/2/2002 Draft Am 1 2005-04-29 Jeremy Reed 6/4/2002 Draft Am 2 2004-09-08 Jeff Bajenaru 6/2/1999 Draft Am 36 2004-09-04 Gary Majewski 6/2/1998 Draft Am 2 2004-08-26 Matt Guerrier 6/2/1999 Draft Am 10 2004-06-17 Humberto Quintero 1/16/1997 Free Agt Am 0 2003-09-03 Joe Valentine 6/2/1999 Draft Am 26 2003-08-24 David Sanders 6/2/1999 Draft Am 6 2003-04-23 Joe Borchard 6/5/2000 Draft Am 1 2002-09-02 Brendan Donnelly 6/1/1992 Draft Am 27 2002-04-09 Jon Rauch 6/2/1999 Draft Am 3 2002-04-02 Josh Fogg 6/2/1998 Draft Am 3 2001-09-02 Bobby Seay 6/4/1996 Draft Am 1 2001-08-14 Aaron Rowand 6/2/1998 Draft Am 1 2001-06-16 Joe Crede 6/4/1996 Draft Am 5 2000-09-12 Matt Ginter 6/2/1999 Draft Am 1 2000-09-01 Mark Buehrle 6/2/1998 Draft Am 38 2000-07-16 2005 Josh Paul 6/4/1996 Draft Am 2 1999-09-07 Frank Menechino 6/3/1993 Draft Am 45 1999-09-06 Kip Wells 6/2/1998 Draft Am 1 1999-08-02 Carlos Lee 2/8/1994 Free Agt Am 0 1999-05-07 2005 Jeff Liefer 6/1/1995 Draft Am 1 1999-04-07 Chad Bradford 6/4/1996 Draft Am 13 1998-08-01 Magglio Ordonez 5/18/1991 Free Agt Am 0 1997-08-29 Alan Levine 6/3/1991 Draft Am 11 1996-06-22 Mike Cameron 6/3/1991 Draft Am 18 1995-08-27 Joe Borowski 6/5/1989 Draft Am 32 1995-07-09 James Baldwin 6/4/1990 Draft Am 4 1995-04-30 Ray Durham 6/4/1990 Draft Am 5 1995-04-26 Olmedo Saenz 5/11/1990 Free Agt Am 0 1994-05-28 Bob Wickman 6/4/1990 Draft Am 2 1992-08-24 2005 Buddy Groom 6/2/1987 Draft Am 12 1992-06-20 Frank Thomas 6/5/1989 Draft Am 1 1990-08-02

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 09:03 AM) Oh, they were flat out making s*** up too. A-row is apparently a great breaking ball hitter according to them. Then they dwelled on this apparent depth perception issue that Crede has? WTF Crede really doesn't 'see' pop ups. Watch him play, I give him credit for learning to handle them as well as he can, but everybody on the team will take a pop up before they leave it to Joe - even Mark B cuts him off.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 01:49 AM) Maybe so, but that IF does not need to be a 1B. Agree. Never thought I would say this but a 'Willie Harris' type of a LH hitting infielder with enough speed to pinch run would be helpful. -I don't fault KW for letting Harris go though, had he worked to become a usable shortstop I bet he'd still be on the team.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Dec 29, 2005 -> 03:51 PM) The Sox had trouble enough finding innings for Vizcaino last year, I don't think you need another lefty in the bullpen, especially if that lefty isn't any good (shades of Kevin Walker). Personally, I'd go with the six starters, Jenks, Cotts, Politte, Hermanson, and Baj/Munoz, and have both Gload + Borchard on the big league roster. EDIT: Actually, Vizcaino got 70 innings last year... but, with McCarthy on the roster, he could take a lot of those 'mop-up' innings. Last years team didn't have a whole lot of 'mop-up' innings, 110 games were decided by 3 runs or less. Every pitcher was in important situations most of the days they appeared. Had the lower end of the bullpen been of poorer qualtity then perhaps there would have been more 'mop-up' opportunities, because they would have been down by 6-7 runs. If the bottom of the bullpen fails then all KW's perceived improvements will not result in as many, or more wins than last years team.

QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 29, 2005 -> 04:29 PM) Not to mention Mackowiak can play 1B so they've really got that spot covered. If they only carry 11 pitchers, another multipurpose player would be nice. Everybody keeps trying to down play this teams lack of depth because Mack can play so many positions. But he can't play them all at once. Your only IF subs are Mackowiak and Ozuna (and one or both could be in the OF that day). If one is in the game you need to either hold the other on the bench in case some thing happens or play the starter on his off day. You could play Thome at 1B and DH Konerko but what other options are there? Think about the 'Sunday' lineup, you need one more Major League IF.

QUOTE(sayitaintso @ Dec 29, 2005 -> 01:46 PM) Well whatever is wrong with KW i hope that it all gets fixed. He's got kidney stones.

QUOTE(Punch and Judy Garland @ Dec 27, 2005 -> 06:15 PM) Well not really a mystery but a question. I had heard (no idea if this is correct) that there is a Pop-Tarts box with Bobby Jenks on the cover. Is this right? Went to Jewel in Joliet and it yielded none. Thanks in advance for any insight Did they say if it was his picture or his fingerprints?

QUOTE(Texsox @ Dec 27, 2005 -> 02:16 AM) Players can't always get want they wa-ant. But they might find, they get what they need. Just if they try sometime. -and that's all JG has really done.

Merry Christmas and Happy Hanakah to all at SoxTalk and to everyone in the White Sox organization. Peace on earth and good will to men, even Kenny Williams.

QUOTE(Iwritecode @ Dec 23, 2005 -> 02:21 PM) The 1992-1993 Toronto Blue Jays. Between championships they lost guys like David Cone, Jimmy Key, David Weathers, David Wells and Jeff Kent but gained guys like Carlos Delgado, Rickey Henderson, Paul Molitor, Shawn Green and Darrin Jackson. They lost and gained a bunch more but I'm not gonna type them all out. Their staring lineups from each opening day had a total of 4 different players. Compare the Sox 2005 lineup with the projected 2006 lineup and there's only 2 different players. Nicely done, IWC! Some of the names were mixed up but I count 10 guys. 10/24/1992 TOR Tom Henke Free Agt Granted >> Signed with Rangers 10/27/1992 TOR Jimmy Key Free Agt Granted >> Signed with Yankees 10/28/1992 TOR Pat Tabler Free Agt Granted >> Retired 10/30/1992 TOR Candy Maldonado Free Agt Granted >> Signed with Vermin 10/30/1992 TOR David Cone Free Agt Granted >> Signed with Royals 11/2/1992 TOR Dave Winfield Free Agt Granted >> Signed with Twins 11/4/1992 TOR Manuel Lee Free Agt Granted >> Signed with Rangers 12/8/1992 TOR Kelly Gruber Trade >> For Luis Solo 3/30/1993 TOR Derek Bell Trade >> For Darrin Jackson (Oh-oh!) 3/30/1993 TOR David Wells Released >> Signed with Tigers David Weathers was drafted by Fla off the Blue Jays but was not on '92 WS roster. Jeff Kent was traded to the Mets during the '92 season for David Cone. So it can be done. I hope guys like Carlos Delgado, Rickey Henderson, Paul Molitor, Shawn Green and Darrin Jackson are now on their way to the White Sox.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 08:19 AM) Lets actually look at the players who have a daily impact instead of the 23rd, 24th, and 25th men on the team please. The Sox have changed their CF, DH, 5th starter, and last lefty and righties out of the pen. That is two starters in the line up. And to be honest later on when you asses the IP and ABs we lost it shows the impact is way less than the 8 of 25 men that you reference. We have upgraded our rotation, and our offense. The only thing we have lost from is the pen, and that is the back of the pen at that. The closer, top set up guy, middle reliever, and top lefty all stay the same. All we have to replace there is the long man, and the second lefty. The changes aren't nearly as big as you think they are. I think 28% of your AB is a lot, sir. For those scoring at home, here are the 2005 records of the players moved.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 01:59 AM) Cos you know those teams like the Boston Red Sox in 2004 and the Florida Marlins in 2003 did a fine job in standing pat in the next season didn't they. And the Yankees have a $200M payroll. Of course they can choose to stand pat. The Yankee team cited played before they went into their Mega-Star era. The Yankee '97 payroll led the majors at $59.1 million, but was not insanely more than the 3rd highest, the Chicago White Sox at $54.3. These were the years of Chuck Knoblouch, Scott Brosius, and Paul O'Neill. They certainly had stars in Jeter, Williams and Tino Martinez but not like what they put out there today. They played much like last year's White Sox, get a good start almost every game, play defense, and take advantage of opportunities as they arise. Martinez led the team with 28 HR, but 8 guys hit 17 or more, they just kept coming at you all game long. Since they switched to the big bopper, all-star fantasy league, super duper team the haven't won a WS.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 03:02 PM) That was Charles Haeger. Owens had continued to play after he was added. Owens was still there... Looking at the leagues homepage, it appears that they may be in the playoffs right now. http://www.lvbp.com/ I can't read spanish, but I see the word playoff. And if they're not about to finish up with their playoffs... Let's be honest here, it's 4 days until Christmas. With all the stories you've heard about Venezuela, would you want to spend the Holidays there? f*** no. You'd go home to be with your family and hope you don't get carjacked on the way to the airport. Even if Owens did leave, it says he had 180 ABs. Thats a lot for winter ball. Could be a case of 'mission accomplished, I'm going home to see my Mama for Christmas'. Cora might just be PO'd about losing his best player. We need one of our Latin guys to figure this out for us.

Vizcaino's spot? Atkins is gone too.