T R U

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 04:25 PM) You have proven absolutely nothing, but then again do you ever? You usually just hope others point things out for you and hope your right. You are clueless. Oh, and I almost forgot, you throw in childish insults to help your case. I have said the same thing everyone else has told you... get it through your head, your wrong and now your just looking like an ass

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 04:22 PM) Most of the QBs in this league could not be considered franchise QBs. Franchise QB's Culpepper Manning Favre McNabb Brady Carr Hasselbeck Leftwhich Pennington Vick McNair Those are ALL Franchise QB's, thats without mention people who were picked to be the Franchise like Palmer, Roethlisberger, Smith, and Manning

QUOTE(whitesoxfan99 @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 04:21 PM) The success rate is no where near the same and you are kidding yourself if you truly think that. Sure there are a lot of busts in the first round but there are tons of quarterbacks that don't even make teams or are career third stringers from the later rounds. Its pointless to try to get this through to him, he wont get it

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 04:04 PM) Steve McNair- can't remember exactly where he went, but he was either a late first or second round pick. McNair was the 3rd Overall pick in 1995

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 04:12 PM) The point isn't whether you can find a mediocre quarterback that gets by for a year or two in the later rounds. Clearly you can. But how many franchise-type QB's get taken on the second day of the draft? In the last 20 years it's basically Brady, with Young coming out of the USFL. Not exactly a high success rate there. Thats the point but SS doesnt seem to grasp it.. If QB's rated 1st round talents were = to 5th round talents then why even take a QB in the first round?? Smith and Rodgers were closely rated, are you saying Smith is no better than Orton?? s*** why even take a QB in the first round, according to Irish you can just pick one up day 2 and be set :headshake

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 04:08 PM) yeah you did a lot of research there T R U. Good job. Just give it up... no one here agrees with you... and you dont even make any sense.. Again you just look like a moron

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 04:04 PM) Hold on a second here, let's look at all of the top QB's in the league and where they went in the draft. Peyton Manning- #1 overall Dante Culpepper- #11 overall Tom Brady- 6th round Brett Favre- Second Round Donovan McNabb- 3rd overall Michael Vick (I know, he's a RB playing QB, he's still makes one of the biggest impacts)- 1st overall Steve McNair- can't remember exactly where he went, but he was either a late first or second round pick. To me those are the only major upgrades over the rest of the league. Only one of them was taken after the second round, and an arguement can be made that Brady wouldn't be there if he were on a weaker team. You do never know what you are going to get, but many more of the first round picks become successes than in the later rounds. The guys that stick around for the long run are more likely to be top picks. If you are looking for a backup that might step in and succeed as a starter for a year or two, then you can take a chance on a later round pick. But if you want to get a QB that is going to be an above average starter for many years, you almost have to take them early. Check and Mate

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 04:00 PM) Don't attempt to insult me because you yourself are being made to look like a fool. The percentage of a succesful QB taken at anytime is not something anyone should be banking on. It is hit and miss no matter where you take him. There is a reason Favre, Brooks, Hasselbeck, Green, Brees, Delhomme, Warner, and Bulger not 1st round picks correct? Because they were no where near as good as the likes of Dan McGwire and Todd Marinovich? How about Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith or Tim Couch? How are they working out? How about Peyton Manning or Donovan McNabb? Culpepper? Carr? Leftwhich? Pennington? Vick? You cant bank your franchise on getting lucky with late round picks.. Im done arguing with your ignorant ass..

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 03:45 PM) What are you trying to say that Brett Favre is not as good as Dan McGwire or Todd Marinovich? In the same draft Brett Favre was taekn in the 2nd round those two others were taken in the first. Would you have passed up the talents of Dan McGwire and Todd Marinovich for the likes of Brett Favre? Why would you do that when a scout who does scouting for a living deem to be better than a guy who goes in the 2nd? Your supposed to pass up 1st round talent and settle for Brett Favre? The point is you never know how any of these picks will turn out. It doesn't matter if it is the 1st round or 5th round, you don't know. And by the way Tmar, it is very normal for later round QBs to out perform 1st round QBs. It happens all the time. Your lucky as hell if you get a QB drafted in the later rounds that turns out to be a franchise Quarterback for you.. You think NE was sitting in their war room before their pick in the 6th round laughing their ass off because they knew they were about to steal a Super Bowl MVP? Yeah, I doubt that... The % of succesful late round QB's is NOT something you should be banking your franchise on.. Green Bay made the right choice, you take the safer pick.. There is a reason Orton, Orlovski, and McPherson were late round picks.. If they were = to Rodgers they would have been 1st round or even 2nd round picks as well dont you think?? Not only does your argument for this not make sense, it makes you look like you know nothing about the draft.. There might not ever be another Tom Brady again, you dont sit around hoping to find one..

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 03:26 PM) I will give them an A...whether or not you agree does not matter to me. I will refuse to give any team an A+ unless they addressed all of their team needs outstandingly. Dallas could have used depth at WR, and did not address it. Therefore, it is an A. Terry Glenn Keyshawn Johnson Quincy Morgan that is a very solid 3, not to mention Witten is a TE on the rise... I seriously doubt adding a 4th WR to the group was a major concern for Dallas It doesnt matter what you think they need, they filled what THEY think they needed, they did exactly that.. they get an A+ you can give them whatever you want, I just dont get your judgement on it.. They filled all the important needs they set out to do

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 03:37 PM) Your right. It has never happened before. So what are you trying to say... its better to pass up better prospects that PAID Scouts who do scouting for a living deem to be better than say a guy who goes in the 5th, your supposed to pass up the first round talent and settle for a 5th because "you never know how they will turn out"

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 03:35 PM) We will have to see then wont we? I beleive they could have taken Marlin Jackson in the first, which fills a great need at a cheaper price, and then taken Frye, Orton, or McPherson later in the draft. I don't believe Rodgers is any better than any of those QBs. I may be proven wrong, but I doubt it. You don't know any more than I do that he will be a better QB than any of them. So you want to try to insult me for having a different opinion than yours? Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one. Yeah your right, a first round QB is no better than a guy taken in the 4th or 5th

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 03:31 PM) Then why sign Pollard in the off season? How many teams play 3 WR sets all game long? Does it creat mismatches? Possibly, but he is not Randy Moss. He does not create the mismatch Randy Moss did when they had him Reed and Carter all out there. Shaun Cody is ok. I have a feeling Peterson helped him look as good as he was. JMO. Its not like they are gonna use 3 WR sets ALL GAME LONG but the fact that its there and will be used is deadly enough No one ever said all of them have to be on the field at the same time

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 03:28 PM) 1 - who care about college head coaching? That means you will be a bad assistant coach? I don't think so. 2 - their offense last year was pathetic. Any direction they go will be a better move. If you think that system was good last year then I think we were watching a different team. It didn't work. 3 - I would have rather had Campbell. I would have rather had a defensive back like Marlin Williams. How about a DT such as Castillo or Patterson. I would have had any of these players instead of Rodgers. All play defensive positions where the Packers need help 4 - I will agree to disagree. This was an awful pick. Rogers has played more than Williams has played. He has been hurt, but the same can happen to Williams. Rogers is a much better talent when healthy than Mike Williams. They didn't score a lot of points becuase their QB is absolutely awful. It has nothing to do with WRs. They already signed Pollard in the off season, good move. They did not need Mike Williams. Marlin Williams.... hmm.... dont think that player exsists I think you mean Marlin Jackson.. The fact that your so blind to see GB needed a QB and a very solid one fell right to them already proves you dont know what your talking about.. no that was prolly out the window when you said Rodgers is no better than Orton :headshake

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 03:21 PM) His mechanics are one of the things scouts did not like about Rodgers. They even pointed it out in the draft. He was not asked to throw the ball deep while in college all that often and when he did he was not very accurate. How you can say he does have a gun is beyond me. Smith, Orton, Campbell, and McPherson all have better arms than Rodgers. GB could have had any of them but Smith. Since he any of the QBs they were going to take in the draft were going to end up sitting for 2 years they should have passed and grabbed one later. Any of these QBs have the potential to be as good or better than Rodgers. As long as he would be sitting on the bench and learning and will be a project anyway, then why not wait? He also has something else going against him. He is a Tedford coached QB. Besides Carr, has there been a QB that has half way proven himself in the NFL? Scouting report: "There isn't a lot we can say about Rodgers definitively except he throws a nice short pass. But nice short passes are not worth $19 million. His accuracy is a little spotty on those rare occasions when he attempts the difficult throw. Rodgers is a good caretaker quarterback who doesn't often make the Homer Simpson play -- dohhh! He's tough enough, has enough arm strength and enough mobility. But he isn't spectacular in any area. His instincts and ability to gauge pressure and see the field are questionable. Rodgers can be a winning NFL quarterback in the right situation, but there is not enough evidence to proclaim him a franchise player. If he were graded strictly on ability and his position were not a factor, he'd be considered a second-round talent." Stupid pick if you ask me. I would have rather had Campbell, Orton, Frye, or McPherson. Especially since they he will be sitting on the bench learning for the next year or two anyway. Aaron Rodgers scouting report Strengths: Picture perfect mechanics that are absolutely textbook...Amazing accuracy and can thread the needle...Very good arm strength and can make all the throws...Good touch and timing...Top intangibles and leadership qualities...Good work ethic and drive to be the best...Decent mobility and good speed and can throw on the run...Excellent pocket presence...Still has a lot of potential and upside. Weaknesses: Has only average size...Needs to continue to add weight and get stronger...Had surgery on his knee before the 2004 season so durability might be a concern...Has only average athletic ability...Doesn't have a ton of experience and is still learning. CBSSportsline take.. Green Bay Packers Best pick: At some point, they had to get the replacement for Brett Favre. Getting Aaron Rodgers late in the first round is a big-time pick. More from CBS Sportsline.. ANALYSIS Positives: Rodgers is a well-built athlete with a medium to long stride and good foot quickness. … Also has displayed good athletic ability and change of direction agility for the position. … Has a good setup and a quick release to go along with very good arm strength. … Rarely will he make questionable decisions. … Has no trouble reading defenses and will not force the ball into traffic (see low interception percentage). … Has shown flashes of great play-making ability due to his good athleticism and very good arm strength. … He's a developing prospect with all the physical tools, displaying excellent quickness in his delivery and release. … Very effective at generating the quickness and snap on the forward motion of his release to easily loft the ball into his target's waiting hands. … His feet are very quick, but it's his long ball accuracy and touch that stand out, taking enough off his long throws to feather the ball to receivers. … While Rodgers is not the biggest quarterback you will find, he does have a loose arm, tight circle and knows how to step into his throws. … The thing you notice on film is his ability to flash a good pass set, drift and soft touch, showing the vision and awareness to slide and move in and out of the pocket with ease. … Displays a smooth, accurate long ball and can run the quarterback draw like a tailback, making him a definite running threat. Negatives: Stays on his primary receivers too long at times, but when he can't locate and hit secondary receivers, he will take off and run with the ball. … Shows good poise, especially when faced with pressure, but must stand in the pocket longer to wait for the play to develop.

I dont get how anyone can knock the Lions pick... Yes, it was mind boggling at first... but now they have possibly the most dangerous line up of WR's in the league.. The fact that they will have Mike Williams, Roy Williams, and Charles Rogers lined up wide with Kevin Jones in the backfield is going to help their offense immensly. If Joey Harrington cant succeed with these weapons he needs to be out of a job.. Detroit is forming one hell of an offense, and their defense should improve too.. Shaun Cody was a solid pick

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 03:14 PM) They needed a future QB to groom. They did not NEED Rodgers. That can be any QB they feel works. Frye, Orlovsky, Orton, McPherson are all guys that could have been groomed to be the next starting QB in Green Bay. Taking him was just because of the value. There was a way that Green Bay could have passed on Rodgers. I'm not saying passing on him would have been the right move. All the way leading up to like the last week before the draft Rodgers was projected to go #1.. When Rodgers falls all the way to 24 right to a team that NEEDS a QB for the future (and when I say future that means next year, not 2-3 years down the road so they can "develope") You have no choice but to take them.. Green Bay made the right move, there is no arguing that.. You dont let a player like that slide past you especially when he fell all the way to your pick.. They didnt need a 5th round project like McPherson or those other guys you named that have a greater chance to fail as opposed to succeed. The closest one you named would be Frye, and I still would rather take Rodgers than Frye.. I dont agree GB had a good draft at all, but the pick of Rodgers was the best move they made all day, and the right move..

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 02:36 PM) I wouldn't say A+ for 2 reasons. Primarily because the general principle of A+ means perfect, and it is next to impossible to have a perfect draft, and I feel this is the same case here. They did have a magnificent draft, I would agree, but they could have used some depth and youth at WR, and didn't address that...but that is about the only beef I have with their draft. I truly feel all drafts could be better, but if you can get an A, you are very happy regardless, and that's probably what I would give them. Secondly, I also wouldn't say it is an A+ draft, because as someone said on here, you really can't tell how good a draft is for a few years afterwards. Probably the best draft by a team in history was by a Steelers team in the 70s - can't remember which one specifically, though I do recall it was the draft that Bradshaw was drafted in - where they ended up with like 7 future HoFers. When you can draft 7 HoFers in the same draft, that is a perfect draft, regardless of whether you addressed all of your needs. wite give it up man Dallas went out and got two BEASTS on the DLine... not only that, they pick up a solid LBer in round 2, THEN they get a RB that should be a very solid back up to Jones.. and to round it out they take a DE that had 1-2 round talent but injuries dropped him.. They got an A+

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 02:56 PM) The Packers didn't need Rodgers, because they very easily could have taken Frye in the 2nd or someone like Orton or Orlovsky later on. And they SURE as hell didn't need ANOTHER WR when their defense is as bad as it is. That is brilliant, using your 2nd round pick, which you should absolutely use on a need unless someone like Mark Clayton fell to them, on another WR for offense when your offense will be good enough Packers are a potential last place team in that division, even with Favre as the QB, because their defense is not good...unlike Chicago and Minnesota. You lose Wrong... there is no way the Packers could pass up Aaron Rodgers and irish... Rodgers has very good mechanics, holding the ball a little high is not something that cant be fixed.. and dude, he has a gun.. I dont get where you can say that he doesnt..

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Apr 24, 2005 -> 04:33 PM) I meant for FSU. I attended every home game and he was a non-factor. gotcha

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 09:18 AM) But are they any better? He adds no value to their franchise at the current time. He will cost a lot of money while sitting on the bench doing nothing and he is not even a sure thing to be a good QB. I think they dropped the ball there and could have used defense. a 4th round pick wont be burning a hole in the Bears wallet.. Plus now he gets to sit back learn the offense and take snaps in practice, get some valuable NFL experiance.. Orton >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other crap backing up in Chicago in recent history

QUOTE(backman @ Apr 24, 2005 -> 08:38 PM) No Jason white, no one wants him? ok he had some struggles in the big game but he got a good arm and would be a fine 7th round draft pick, and what about Timmy Chang, no love for the NCAA Division I-A passing and total-offense record holder, common great 7th round pick! Jason White has bum knees and played in a spread offense with all american talent around him.. Theres no real shock he wasnt drafted either.. Chang also didnt grade out to be a good pro prospect.. Hawaii threw the ball a lot as well..

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Apr 25, 2005 -> 09:08 AM) Rodgers is no better than Orton in my opinion. Both of them will be sitting on the sidelines learning for at least 2 years. The only difference is the Packers have to pay first round money and take a huge salary cap hit while he is sitting as a back up to Brett Favre. Our first round pick will be running through their swiss cheese defense. Williams is a very strange pick. Why would the sign Pollard in the offseason to go along with Roy Williams and Charles Rogers only to use a high first round pick on a slot receiver? He is not Randy Moss. He is not someone that you will bring in with Chris Carter and Jake Reed and just send him deep for home runs. Silly pick if you ask me. Value? HOW? I understand what you are a saying, that they got value because they fell further than they should have. However, if they don't fit and fill their needs how does it add to THEIR value? Their respective teams are really no better off today as they were before the draft. Rodgers is way better than Orton.. Rodgers has very sound mechanics and is mobile and has a gun for an arm.. Now he gets to learn behind Brett Favre, there is no way GB could pass that pick up I give the Bears a C because I thought there were better WR's available at their 2nd round pick than Bradley.. Benson was a huge pick up for them and will immediatley help the team.. They had a solid draft, C seems fair to me

I hate Dallas with a passion but they had a solid draft

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Apr 24, 2005 -> 01:18 PM) I was at FSU while he was there. He only started a few games, and that was mainly because chris rix sucked ass. Those were also down years, and continue to be, for FSU. Trust me, he was not impressive. He didn't do s*** on the basketball court either. Maybe he's gotten better since then, but I have never been impressed by him. Between mcpherson and rix, I think the best QB during those years was Anquan Boldin. still doesnt justify the fact that he is not = to Burris and no matter what you think he did on the basketball court.. he must have done some s*** to be Mr Basketball in the state of Florida