Kenny Hates Prospects

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 29, 2009 -> 03:02 PM) Does Houston necessarily know who the PTBNL were or at least who was on the list? With that contract, you could interest me in something like Oswalt for Poreda and Richard straight up...no money exchanging hands...but you're simply not getting extra young pitching talent off of me...but with the Peavy trade, extra young talent was hidden as 2 PTBNL's. Roy Oswalt has to be worth more than just Poreda and Richard though, even at that salary. I wouldn't necessarily be in favor of giving up some of the best talent we have, but I'd definitely include Shelby or Fields (if he's out of the picture) plus a top RP prospect (Link, DRod, Omogrosso, Jones, O'Neill, etc.) and an innings eater type of prospect. If that wouldn't be enough, I'd offer up Escobar too. That would definitely be a beatable offer, but the Sox would be at an advantage in the sense that there won't be a lot of teams capable of taking on Oswalt's contract. I don't see Oswalt being moved though, at least not now. Maybe it's a possibility over the offseason, but Tejada and Valverde are coming off the books for them this year as well as several role players and old veterans making in excess of $1M this year. I imagine the 'Stros would like to rid themselves of Lee's deal, but the rumors are Caballo doesn't want to waive his NTC for anyone even if a deal could be reached with another team. Peavy is out there until he's traded, but that might not happen this season. Bedard is out there now and will most likely be traded, although he'll be worth picks so I could also see him staying if nothing significant materializes. Over the offseason I think Webb and Halladay are both for sale for sure. Lackey is a FA. Surprise names could be arb-eligible pitchers getting expensive, which would include Marlins Josh Johnson and Ricky Nolasco. A huge darkhorse could be King Felix as he'll have over 4 years service time and the M's are rebuilding, but that would take a huuuuuuge package if available. I doubt that happens but there's always a chance considering Ryan Howard got $10M in arb after not even 3 full years service time, and just this offseason he ended up getting 3 years, $18M per year with less service time total than King Felix will have this year. So I guess there's always a chance Felix will put himself in the $10M+ range and look for an extension through his arb seasons, in which case one would have to wonder whether the M's would look to field offers. Again I doubt it happens, but I'd give them basically anything they want.

Holliday is a Borass client though. The only other pieces they've got are Crosby and Chavez (bad contracts), Ellis (don't need or want), and OC, who is not coming back. Duchshererhjhahjhsaf could be a possibility if he's healthy, and Casilla is a guy I like, but those aren't major pieces. Everything else is very cheap.

There could be a lot of very, very good young (or younger) players hitting the market between now and mid-season 2010 so it wouldn't hurt at all to keep our options open. Teams to watch closely if you're the Sox: Marlins - Hanley and Josh Johnson; although probably unlikely with the new stadium, they're still the Marlins Padres - obvious, but also Chris Young and Adrian Gonzalez Cubs - seriously, they've got $120M committed in 2010 without figuring for arbitration, draft, etc. and are going through an ownership change... how funny would it be if the new owners, instead of adding Peavy, felt they needed to dump ARam or Zambrano? I'd LOL. Phillies - should be around a $100M payroll next year committed with no additions Rockies - Street, Cook, Atkins probably all go soon, also Hawpe, still hurting from Helton's contract Toronto - $81M committed next year not figuring draft, arb, etc. Alex Rios should hit the block at least since Wells is probably immovable Edit: Here's the link where I got the payroll info. It looks like the Sox, Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers, and Orioles are all in position to make some big additions going forward. The Yanks as well if they're going to maintain a $200M payroll, also potentially the Mets if they're going to stay in the $120M+ range.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ May 28, 2009 -> 10:37 PM) Evans/Rampage are the TUF 10 coaches. White says Rampage wanted the Evans fight more than the title fight at this point. Should make for good TV. Also, saw some reports that Machida turned it down because he wants to fight quicker than Dec. Kind of leaves Machida's opponent in the air... I guess they could go with Shogun, and I am fully aware of his PRIDE career, but a loss to Forrest (I've heard all the excuses, but he still lost the fight) a completely uninspiring win over Coleman and a KO of a not-at-the-top-of-his-game Chuck isn't exactly the greatest resume, but I'm really struggling to find someone who they could put against him in Sept or Oct... ultimately I'm sure they would want to see if Forrest could upset the Spider and make that match (unlikely, but it's MMA, you never know). Spider and Machida won't fight, they're training partners and friends. Maybe if Franklin beats Wand or if Henderson beats Bisping he can jump back to 205. Rashad-Rampage is a better fight anyway. Have to pick Rashad there. I think it was a bad move for Rampage because losing to Rashad hurts a lot more than getting embarrassed by Lyoto. I agree it'll make for good TV. It'll also be weird seeing the Wolfslair guys back on TUF for a second season in a row. I think Lyoto gets Shogun, and really it doesn't matter who they feed to Machida. It's kind of like Fedor. Top contender? Take your shot. Doesn't matter anyway. The only thing I hope the UFC does NOT do is give him a top young fighter like Jonny Bones or Steve Cantwell and risk stunting their development. Those guys need to be built up. PS how much does it suck to be Rich Franklin right now? Anderson owns him twice, basically kicking out of the MW division where he was definitely top-5 in the world, perhaps better. Then he goes and decides to move to the LHW division, but in the process he loses to another MW who Anderson also put in flux (Hendo). After that he decides to become buddy-buddy with Anderson and train with him and Blackhouse, but as soon as he does that, another Blackhouse guy goes and wins the LHW belt. LOL. Poor Rich! You have to feel bad for the guy.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ May 28, 2009 -> 10:06 PM) Ultimately, like with Boras discussions, it's up to the athlete... if Fedor really wanted to be in the UFC he would be. I think the exclusivity is what it ultimately comes down to. I don't see, as currently structured, how Affliction has much left in the tank after the 3rd show. As far as stability wise they're 3rd behind UFC and Strikeforce and after Barnett/Fedor there's not very many interesting matchups for Fedor left. They will promote Fedor as the guy who beat 5 former UFC champions, but that doesn't work as well when none of them are in the UFC or holding the belt now. Yes, the Belfort/Mosaui fight is great, but the casual fan will care very little to nothing about it, and to last in the long run, they need the casual fan. I guess they can survive a show or two if they sign Tito, but that's going to cost a ton of cash. I think the issue is almost 100% Fedor's management considering the UFC brass and Fedor have never even sat down together. Fedor's team wants a bunch of stuff that doesn't benefit Fedor, so the UFC of course responds coldly. The exclusivity thing I don't see as a big deal on Fedor's side actually, because after Fedor wastes Barnett, there's exactly who left out there? Overeem? That's not much. The UFC would have no problem whatsoever keeping Fedor busy, and the thing is, where Fedor is will be where the top FA HW's in the future will want to go anyway. The biggest obstacle I see it on the Fedor side - if Fedor had realistic management - would be the sambo competitions. I could actually see the UFC allowing that though if it really came down to it. But that would be something that they'd have to be pretty deep in discussion to negotiate on. The biggest problem I see is M-1 wanting to plaster their logos all over the UFC products, and having the UFC build stadiums, and having the UFC bring in Red Devil fighters with M-1 having a hand in matchmaking, and having UFC events in Russia, and allowing M-1 to promote their own events in Russia using UFC's brand as a drawing point. None of that stuff is ever going to fly, and none of it actually benefits Fedor. The only way I see it working out is if the UFC buys out Fedor's commitment to M-1 (at an additional fee of course) and M-1 stays on board in an agent role only. I agree completely on Affliction. They're done, they just don't know it yet. I'd also say they're probably further down the list than just third. If you count the WEC as part of the UFC under the Zuffa umbrella, then IMO it goes: Zuffa, Strikeforce, Dream, Sengoku, Affliction, PFC, and on down that way. The only people that order Affliction are the hardcore fans anyway, and both Japanese shows air on HDNet, stream online, and have their fights put up everywhere just like everyone else. So really, the Japanese shows I think have almost as much appeal to the hardcores in North America as Affliction and get just as much exposure in North America as Affliction, with the difference being the Japanese shows don't cost money and are held much more frequently. I really think Tito or no Tito they're screwed. Strikeforce's model is soooo much better it's not even funny, and this was even before the TV deal. Strikeforce can spread out the same amount of cash that Affliction pays Sylvia and use it to pay Diaz, Shields, Smith, Radach, etc. and more. They got more fights out of it, and they get better fights out of it. Strikeforce knows they can put a couple C-level sluggers in there and those fights will appeal to the casual fan more than Fedor will. The hardcores are a non-factor since they're watching both shows anyway.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 28, 2009 -> 10:52 PM) Oswalt still has good stuff. If you could get him for a package built around Poreda, one of Hudson/Carter, Josh Fields, and anyone not named Danks/Beckham/Viciedo. The question is, would that be enough? I don't know. And yes that means I'd be willing to part with Tyler Flowers in that package. They just took Jason Castro last year in the first round, so if Flowers was included I'd like to expand the deal to get Castro back. He'd probably be a fit since it was rumored nearing draft day last year that the Sox had scouted him pretty heavily. But anyway, I don't think they'd be after Flowers as they obviously love Castro considering who they passed on to take him. My only criteria in an Oswalt deal is no Beckham, no Allen, and preferably no Danks since I think he's a key in extending Jon.

I'd wait until the break and if the Jays are out, I'd go hard after Halladay first. If we can't get Halladay, I move on to Brandon Webb, even if he's not 100% this year. I'd try to get him this season, but if not, then I'd consider Oswalt. If Oswalt is indeed made available this July, for me it would be a tough decision between making a play for Oswalt now and waiting for the offseason to go after Webb. I really think we've got a shot at Webb and he's the most preferable of all the guys realistically on the market, sans maybe Doc if he really does end up for sale. The Sox are not going to be able to take on 2 big pitcher contracts so I'd hate to throw everything at Oswalt and then see Webb out there for the taking. In the mean time, the Sox should really be looking for another young starter who hasn't yet hit it in the bigs. It seems like Boston may be shopping Bowden a bit, and if that's true I'd go after him with 'spects if there was a fit. I also like Charlie Morton of the Braves although obviously not as much as Bowden. Is Ian Kennedy permanently out of the picture for the Yankees? I'd try to buy low on a 3/4 young starter and then stick him in the back of the rotation, using Poreda and whatever else to go after a big fish.

QUOTE (MN_Sox @ May 28, 2009 -> 10:09 PM) Yeah..I believe JR has money. It's too bad that the Sox are run like a small town team in a large market. How about putting some of that money into the farm and hiring some better scouts. That's the thing I hate about having to move to Minneapolis...hear all about the Twinkies and their farm and their scouting and their minor leagues...blah,blah,blah. Minny IMO has had either one of the most or *the* most pathetic ownership situation in baseball for quite a while now. How could a team routinely be soooo close to winning it all, yet constantly kick their fanbase in the nuts like the Twins have over several offseasons? Minny's farm has always been overrated anyway in terms of impact-level talent. What they are great at though is scouting and bringing in guys that fit their system. I strongly believe that with the scouting and developmental staff they have there, if the Twins had more flexibility with payroll they'd have a lot more talent. I'm sure they know who it is on the farm that they'd like to trade, but the problem is actually getting the green light to take on salary. The Twins have swung and miss after Ryan left with both the Santana and Garza deals, but I do think they were kind of forced in both situations. Garza was a guy whose attitude they didn't seem to like, and Young was the type of player they probably thought they needed going forward with the open-air stadium. The Santana deal was different as I don't know what the Dodgers were offering (if they even were involved), but I can't blame the Twins for taking less from the Mets in order to send Santana to the NL. And dealing Johan was still the right move since ownership wouldn't allow the type of extension he commanded.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ May 28, 2009 -> 09:26 PM) Jerry Reinsdorf has a shocking amount of money, and for a guy who gets a bad rap from a lot of "fans" his fellow owners love the heck out of him. As well as former players and current and former executives. I'm a pretty big conspiracy theorist myself - I believe that almost everything of extreme real-world importance exists within a conspiracy of some sort simply out of necessity or perceived necessity - but even I cannot get behind the "Jerry is cheap and cares more about profit than winning" theory. He's proven himself by keeping the Bulls dynasty together, and he's proven himself by raising payroll by a large portion and going for it all after the 2005 championship. That's enough for me. I agree with him in many ways re: contract lengths in baseball, especially for pitchers. I also agree with his stance on the luxury tax in the NBA, as there's no reason to pay the luxury tax to keep a core of mediocre players together just so that they can happily exit in the 2nd round of the playoffs each year. And even then, Jerry has said he's pay the tax if it was a special team. The man has made and continues to make lots of money in other ventures, and if he runs a profitable business in sports, why get upset? Isn't he supposed to do that? The only issue I've ever had as a fan relates to over-slot bonuses in the MLB draft. Yes the commissioner's office frowns upon it and will even give a little slap on the wrist for it, but if the big money contenders are getting away with taking advantage of the system year after year by taking top- to mid-round talent at the bottom because of signability, then the Sox should be able to do it too. It's only fair that way. The players don't even have to pan out at all as long as they are used as trade bait. Just spending an extra $3M on the draft could end up resulting in a $15M player on a well-below market contract for several seasons simply because some other team couldn't afford to pay that player during his arb years. Other than that, I'm very cool with Jerry running things. He's a fan just like the rest of us, and anyone b****ing only needs to look around the league at other ownership situations in order to realize that we've got it pretty good here.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ May 27, 2009 -> 11:28 PM) in his update today Meltzer says Belfort will only take it at 185 at Mossaui says he can't make the cut, so that is still up in the air. The fight will go down. Affliction needs it badly since so far it's the only interesting fight that's basically confirmed for the card. Jay Hieron-Semtex is interesting and is rumored by MMA Weekly, but I don't think that's a done deal yet. Fedor-Barnett is a joke. Barnett's wrestling is ridiculously overrated as is his sub game, and he hasn't beaten a legit top-level HW since he roided up and beat Randy in 2002. He's got nothing for Fedor. Hopefully after this fight Fedor's entire management team dies in a horrific accident, because that's the only way he's going to the UFC - which really, really, really sucks because Fedor-Lesnar, Fedor-Lyoto, and Fedor-Anderson are all huge wet dream fights. Plus Fedor-Cigano, Fedor-Rashad, Fedor-Shogun, Fedor-Randy, etc. are all entertaining fights. Man I wish he'd come to the UFC... I bet he'll end up going back and forth between Dream and Strikeforce though. Ugh.

QUOTE (MHizzle85 @ May 28, 2009 -> 07:18 PM) About this. It's half Soko's fault & half the ref. The ref's gotta make more of an effort to stop him if he's continuing to rain down punches. So it's Rampage & Rashad as the TUF coaches. And it'll be Rampage fighting Rashad next due to this. Lyoto's camp believes they'll be fighting in September. It's all Soko's fault. The ref was there. Soko saw the ref there, and he even tried working around the ref to get more strikes in. Because this is Japan nothing will happen. Japan is a f***ing MMA legitimacy sinkhole. They hardly test, they'll work fights, they'll put on freakshows, and there's no oversight. f*** MMA in Japan. They've got a lot of great fighters over there, mainly at WW and below, and I'd love to see those guys all come over once WEC gets bigger. Good female fighters over there too, but I don't really get into that. If this had happened in the US, Soko would be penalized no doubt. The guy deserves to be fined up the ass and suspended at least a year. That's complete bulls*** which does nothing but set the sport back. f*** Sokoudjou. This was worse than BJ-Pulver II and even Babalu's crap recently. Soko probably got in a good 10 shots at least after the fight was officially stopped. There's no need to have a ref big enough to manhandle the fighters; the fighters need to exhibit self-control and if they can't do that then they have no business whatsoever in the sport.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 27, 2009 -> 09:32 PM) It was in the paper and KW called JR who was in NYC walking down Park Ave. He supposedly almost walked into a car off the curb. He jokingly said that he felt rich walking down Park Ave. so he had no problem with the deal. He said if he happened to be walking down 3rd Ave. he wouldn't have felt so rich. Seriously? That is how you "know?" Is not possible that the Sox lost a bunch of sponsors and had to lower payroll going into the season, but because of management's uncertainty re: the economy, KW was told that if things look good going into June he'd be able to add an "impact player?" Kenny said he was working on the deal without speaking to JR, and only informed him once it was basically done. Isn't it possible that Jerry is now more comfortable adding payroll if it means a special player? And isn't it also possible that, in working the Peavy deal, Kenny worked out the basics of a side deal for Thome/Dye/PK that would free up money? Perhaps a secondary move was coming, and Jerry's approval was needed simply due to the length of Peavy's contract.

QUOTE (zenryan @ May 27, 2009 -> 12:31 AM) Mousasi had another great performance. Kinda excited to see him vs Belfort in August on the Affliction card. Mayhem really screwed up the main event. I was looking forward to seeing him get worked. Canseco actually tried to fight which was nice. It as long as everyone expected but atleast he tried. That Sokodjuo ending was pretty wild. Thats why refs need to take the Big John approach and basically tackle the top fighter when ending a fight. That fight is going to be awesome. Now Mousassi wants to have a catch weight though. I don't get it. If you can make MW and destroy people as a bigger guy, why do you want to move to LHW and HW? Trigg is back in the UFC as well. Haven't seen the good fighters' fights yet, but I saw Canseco and Soko. Canseco did a lot better than I thought he would, but HMC didn't seem all that intent on hurting him. And f*** Sokoudjou! I used to like him, but now I can't stand the guy. Always wants big fights, yet can't beat anyone in the top-20. The post-stoppage attack on Nortje is exactly what Hendo should be doing to Soko every f***ing day for embarrassing Team Quest. There's nothing more frustrating in sports than an uber-talented athlete who doesn't learn and doesn't care.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 27, 2009 -> 07:24 PM) The Sox are moving Beckham to 3rd, at least for the time being, and they can't do that in AA because they'd be blocking Viciedo. Now, they could have opted to move Viciedo up to AAA and let him play with Contreras while keeping Beck's in AA, but I think they also feel Beck's will be promoted soon anyway and Viciedo is finally getting rolling in AA so no reason to move him up too soon. That makes a lot of sense now. If that's the case though, I really hope we get something for Josh. Josh is healthy now, but if we send him down.... even if he hits, he's going to just add another year to his age and hurt his value over the offseason. Once Beckham gets here, he's here for good. If Josh has already lost the job in the eyes of Sox management, they should be working out a deal right now and not call Beckham up until he's moved.

Chavez is basically a 1B/DH at this point anyway, ditto Nomar who is also a 3B for them. Their main guys over the last couple years have been Jack Hannahan and Bobby Crosby. Hannahan is a career .226/.314/.356 hitter, while Crosby is a career .239/.308/.376 hitter. If it weren't for their ability to play more important defensive positions than LF, these guys would actually be worse than Jerry Owens (.262/.319/.305).

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 27, 2009 -> 08:09 PM) Ah, I was thinking of Webb. My mistake. Webb is the one I think we have a very realistic shot at, but probably during the offseason only. I'd absolutely love to have him.

Haren's contract: 2009: $7.5M 2010: $8.25M 2011: $12.75M 2012: $12.75M 2013: $15.5M ($3.5M buyout)

QUOTE (kyyle23 @ May 27, 2009 -> 05:48 PM) IMO Halladay is untouchable(I believe Ricciardi has said this before as well), I mentioned him because Marty brought him up, not because he is available(or percieved to be available). Of all of those pitchers, Halladay would be my first choice as well, but I think we are looking at the second tier of aces right now. Haren, Peavy, and Oswalt are really the root of the dispute here, and I think they are all pretty similar, with Peavy being the highest paid and probably the scariest investment considering previously cited arm problems. Oswalt may end up being the last available chick at the dance, but I dont necessarily see that as a bad thing in this dance. I would agree with all that, and what would also scare me about Peavy is the refusal to play in the American League. Since pitching is such a mental thing, and since baseball is a team thing, I don't want a guy who is either afraid to face AL hitters, or not confident in his ability to pitch in a hitter's park, and/or worried about his numbers because of contractual reasons. That said, I'd still pull the trigger on the offered deal because you have to take that chance since aces are so rare. Halladay would be #1 for me too. In the next group, I'd go Haren, then Peavy, then Oswalt, with age as the reasoning. I wouldn't complain about getting Oswalt though. Not at all. He's a great pitcher.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 27, 2009 -> 06:00 PM) Can we get Gio back too? Gio's stats I know that was sarcastic, but maybe

QUOTE (G&T @ May 27, 2009 -> 05:34 PM) Yeah, those guys cost what prospects? Jason Perry? It's not like Cunningham is a major haul. He's a nice player and probably a 4th OF/tweener and I'm guessing that's how Oakland sees him since he hasn't been very involved. I'd be interested in Cunningham as a guy who is a better bet to be a 4th OF/injury fill-in/energy player for several years going forward. It would be great to have a guy that you could use regularly in that role and count on him to produce when we get into situations like we've been in this year with Carlos going down and so forth. Fields has a much higher ceiling as a HR/RBI guy but has a lesser chance of reaching it, and would certainly be worth a hell of a lot more than Aaron Cunningham if he was hitting right now. All in all, it's a gamble on both sides between two GM's who do that a lot, with Beane buying low once again during a developmental season. Doesn't seem that far-fetched to me.

QUOTE (kyyle23 @ May 27, 2009 -> 05:30 PM) Because all three have been aces, all three get paid pretty well, and the only difference is that peavy is younger than Halladay and Oswalt, so why would Halladay(in your opinion) be ok to acquire and Oswalt will not be ok? I am asking what you are seeing in Oswalt that indicates to you that he is not even a 3 starter anymore, and I dont want to hear "he is paid too much/on the downside of his career" You have repeatedly been shown his numbers to close out the season last year, and they were pretty impressive, especially the B2B shutouts in September( True, he hasnt been amazing this year, but then again neither has Peavy.), all i am asking from you is a little bit of reasoning behind your opinion so I can understand it a little better Halladay is in a different stratosphere altogether. IMO he's a legit top-5 pitcher in all of baseball, and maybe better than that. Plus from what I've seen he's more of a pitcher than Oswalt, and even though their career numbers and peripherals are very, very close, Halladay has done it in the AL East of all places. Oswalt did it in the NL Central. I'd be skeptical about locking Oswalt up, but I'd have no problem whatsoever dealing for Doc and locking him up for his Age 33-35 seasons. If we acquired him this year and extended him through 2012 I'd be salivating.

QUOTE (G&T @ May 27, 2009 -> 05:28 PM) Fields is the opposite of what Beane wants. I know. I mean Jack Hannahan and Nomar Garciaparra just SCREAM Billy Beane, don't they?

Barring a major turn around in the span of the next week or so, Beckham's promotion to Charlotte and probable move to 3B seems to signal the end of the very brief Josh Fields era here. Sending Josh down to Charlotte probably isn't going to help his career any, and once Beckham gets here he's going to stay. Billy Beane is one of Kenny's favorite trading partners and IMO they are the perfect fit should Josh be traded. They have nothing in the minors close and they've had old veteran trash there for quite some time. At least Josh has some potential and would give them someone to hope for. I don't think we'd get a whole lot out of Josh at this point, but considering he has put up power numbers in the big leagues in the past, I don't think he's worth scraps only. My suggestion: Aaron Cunningham returns for Josh Fields. I don't know if Oakland would do that, but he doesn't seem to be in their plans as a regular starter. Is this a fair deal, and if not, what could we get for Josh? And don't say "a bag of balls" because that means you're a retard.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 27, 2009 -> 04:52 PM) That's also a good point. I kind of like Jas's idea - Fields in LF while TCQ heals, Beckham at 3B, Anderson and Ramirez stay in CF and Short. Keep Wise at bay. If Fields is traded before Quentin is healthy, Kroeger for LF. That will never happen. Pods will play no matter what.

Am I the only one that gets sad seeing players promoted to Charlotte? I'd rather he stay in Birmingham and come up that way. Get a new ballpark down there.