Kenny Hates Prospects

I think you guys are overvaluing taking on Byrnes' contract. Byrnes' deal is up after 2010, so that's probably like $7M this year and $11 next year, then he's off the books. With a buyout on Garland and Webb likely hitting the market after this year, they should be able to work around that. That said, I think a 3-way works best: Sox trade: Jermaine Dye, Poreda, Richard, 2 low-level PTBNL (pitching, Gilmore, Morel, Escobar, etc) D'Backs trade: Eric Byrnes, Dan Haren Braves or Reds trade: prospects Sox receive: Dan Haren, Eric Byrnes D'Backs receive: Reds/Braves prospects, Poreda, Richard, 2 low-level PTBNL (pitching, Gilmore, Morel, Escobar, etc) Braves or Reds receive: Jermaine Dye That way the Sox can only take on Haren's deal this year and Dye-Byrnes becomes a wash, and the Sox also keep some prospects.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 27, 2009 -> 02:09 PM) Just think, a few more losses and we could have been holding Pedro Alvarez and his .784 OPS in high A ball. It wouldn't have mattered. Alvarez = Borass client.

You guys are f***ing nuts if you think anything close to Poreda + Richard is going to get Haren here. Haren originally went for Brett Anderson, Dana Eveland, Greg Smith, Aaron Cunningham, Carlos Gonzalez and Chris Carter. That's nothing to sneeze at, and now Haren is extended further and under team control even longer. From the Sox, and not including Beckham, we're probably talking something like Poreda, Richard, 2 of Hudson/Carter/Upchurch/Infante, 2 of Jordan Danks/Allen/Viciedo, and then probably a reliever like Jones, O'Neill, Link, Omogrosso, Santeliz, etc. If the Sox could get Haren for Richard + any combination of minor league players not named Beckham, Allen, Viciedo, or Danks, then I do that deal. I would literally give them Richard + Poreda + Shelby and then let them scout the entire farm system this whole year and decide on any 4 trade-eligible players at a later date. Haren is going to cost a hell of a lot if he's even out there, but he's definitely someone worth the gamble. But still, I think he's their franchise piece at this point and the future teams will be built around him. Webb seems to be the guy who will be on the block, and the Sox could make a real run at him over the offseason. If we can get a window to talk extension before completing the deal, then we have the pieces to do it. Webb would be a terrific fit for our park and he'll come cheaper since he's currently a FA after 2010 and will be due lots and lots of money afterwards. Plus there's the injury thing. I think he's our guy.

QUOTE (joesaiditstrue @ May 26, 2009 -> 06:12 PM) i think kenny would probably prefer to go after a pitcher who is still in his mid to late 20's, rather than someone who'll be in their mid-30's by the time their contract is over I don't think we're getting Verlander, King Felix, Danny Haren, Lincecum, etc. Guys that fit your description don't exactly hit the market very often. Peavy is the rare exception due to the Padres' financial situation. Maybe we'll get lucky and either sign Lackey or trade for and then extend Brandon Webb. Lackey would be pretty unlikely, but Webb could be a real possibility given our relationship with the D'Backs.

QUOTE (sox1844 @ May 26, 2009 -> 08:42 PM) I don't know... just by talking to other fans, listening to different media outlets, I just get the impression that Ozzie is an absolute clown, the total laughingstock of baseball. I mean, I'm just wondering what the feeling is inside the business rather than just fans. I was just wondering if you actually knew of any player who openly loves Ozzie, rather than just NOT bashing him. Know what I'm saying? You just never know the inside stories ... I just wonder if Ozzie wasn't at the helm if we would have had a better chance at Peavy. Peavy's momma could have been hired as Sox manager and he still wouldn't have accepted a deal here. The problem was the park and the league. All the other talk, be it about Ozzie, guaranteed options, full NTC's, opt-out clauses, Sox record at the time, etc. was just secondary. If the Sox played in a pitcher's park in the NL he'd be here already. Also, about the feeling inside the business, whenever I listen to a national broadcast featuring ex-players - meaning not s***-eating pot stirrers like Fox's Buck - they rave about Ozzie. When a guy like Mark Grace goes on and on and on about how much he'd have loved to play for Ozzie, then I guess Ozzie must be doing something right.

QUOTE (joejoedairy @ May 26, 2009 -> 09:14 PM) Are we facing the 3rd member of the rangers vaunted dvd pitching prospects, diamond, or is that a different one. either way im glad we got the good d from them Beckham-Allen-Danks = B.A.D. Edit: For the pitchers it's harder. We should wait until the end of this season at least. Poreda, Carter, Hudson, Shirek, Infante, Jones, Upchurch, Leesman, Santeliz, etc... We need to give it more time to come up with something for the pitchers.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ May 26, 2009 -> 01:41 PM) Theyve started to hit him to deter him from doing it, but that just puts him on base which is what he is trying to do anyway. Keep doing it until you get hurt and go on the DL for the rest of the season. LOL I wanted to say the same thing. I'm happy Pods is doing what he's doing and I'll always love him for his contributions in '05. However, BA should be in CF everyday and unless someone else is hurt, I just can't see Ozzie doing that. It's not that I hate Pods, it's that I in no way trust Ozzie and would sacrifice Pods for the greater good of the honies.

QUOTE (kyyle23 @ May 26, 2009 -> 09:05 AM) I dont know if he SHOULD be thrown at for using this stance, but I can certainly see why an opposing pitcher WOULD throw at him if he is running up on the ball. Basically it is going to make him think twice before doing it again, because if he is moving his weight forward towards the ball, he is going to have that much less time to get out of the way of the ball. A deterrent HBP, in other words Good, let him get hit. He can get on base that way too.

QUOTE (zenryan @ May 26, 2009 -> 01:10 AM) Rampage is a test because he is smart enough not to trade with Machida and try to get it to the ground. Maybe he wont be able to but Rampage is a lot better than Evans is right now. I think youre really selling Shogun short. Jones is a nice prospect but lets not get carried away. He beat Bonnar who is a good but nothing great LHW. Plus Bonnar was coming off of a major layoff. I dont know who is going to beat Machida right now but it seems like after every huge fight, people want to annoint the new champ as someone who is unbeatable. Then the guy loses his very next fight. Jones' greco is awesome and he's got such an amazing package in terms of body type and athleticism that he can develop into a P4P type of fighter. He's long and lanky with a big reach from the outside and has incredible functional strength in close quarters. Plus he's very quick and his reactions are amazing for a fighter so young with so little training comparatively and so little experience. He's got it all. Fighting just seems to come natural to him and he appears to love it. He's a creative, wild, inventive kind of guy with killer instinct, and while those attributes will need to be held in check a lot better as he climbs the ladder and learns, it shows that he loves doing what he does. He seems to have a great attitude as well. Jones does need a lot of help with his cardio and picking his spots, deciding when to use his explosiveness and when to kind of drop back. He uses too much energy when he doesn't have to by being flashy and going for things he can't get, but that'll come with more training and experience. Bonnar is a seasoned veteran, who although is "nothing great," is actually very underrated IMO. I know Bonnar missed a lot of time with injuries and suspensions and whatnot, but he was prepared coming into that fight and just ended up looking terrible because of what Jones did to him. Jones is going to make a lot of guys look that way. I'm not annointing Machida as the best LHW in the world because he beat Rashad. I did it a long time ago because he's amazing. It's like, I have no idea who is going to win the AL Central or the AL West this year with the Dodgers being Manny-less for a long spell, but I could tell you that if the Red Sox were in either division they'd take it by 7+ games at least, more likely 10+. Machida is so far ahead of the curve right now that it's not even funny. Machida completely embarrassed Tito when he was sick with the flu. He's just the best there is in that division right now.

QUOTE (MHizzle85 @ May 26, 2009 -> 02:36 AM) Why? Because this is his biggest win. And against Rashad, i'm not giving it that much significance. He's good, but he's a guy who was able to get by on being athletic & catching people on mistakes. Also, I laugh at how you not believing how many picked Rashad, since I knew NO ONE who picked Rashad. Rampage is a test because he's the 2nd best 205'er in the world. Really 10x easier? Rampage would of done work on Evans, easily. Rashad is his biggest win and it's because Rashad is the best fighter he's ever fought. The Franklin fight was a long time ago, and I honestly think Rashad is better fighter than Franklin is now anyway. Ah, just people on the internets gave Rashad too much a chance. Rashad is an awesome fighter but he doesn't have the skillset to beat Lyoto. If you have a hard time taking Tito down, you don't have a prayer of taking Lyoto down (even though Tito grabbed the fence a couple times in that fight Rashad still couldn't take him down very easily). Being athletic is a HUGE advantage when you're talented, and capitalizing on your opponent's mistakes is how you win in any sport at the highest level. That's everyone's gameplan, and that's why gameplans are developed. Rashad is quicker on his feet than Rampage and some of those early feints by Lyoto on Rashad end up landing on Rampage, plus Rashad throws kicks more than Rampage does as Rampage has basically turned into a boxer/brawler. I also think Rashad's quicker with his hands, harder to catch, and just a lot more explosive going forward and coming in for his shot. I think Rashad will end up fighting Rampage and I think Rashad beats him. The only drawback for Rashad in that fight would be that Rashad is an emotional fighter who will sometimes fight more on heart and balls than gameplan, and Rampage is the kind of guy who can easily get into someone's head. I'd still take Rashad though by better hands, kicks, speed, and quickness, and evasiveness, probably by decision in a 3 round fight, but I wouldn't be surprised if Rashad KTFO's Rampage. Rampage is labeled the #2 LHW in the world because he KO'd Wanderlei and decisioned Jardine after losing his title to Forrest. If anyone is overrated it is Rampage. Rampage has beaten some very good fighters by drawing them into a brawl and beating them with tighter boxing, better handspeed, and more power, but stylisitically, he's not a threat to anyone with good TD defense at this point who he can't draw into a brawl. That's why he KO'd Chuck and Eastman in the UFC, then beat Hendo. It's also why he lost to Forrest, because Forrest kept his distance and exploited Rampage's 0% leg and body kick defense. Rampage decisioned Jardine because Jardine was smarter and harder to catch, but Rampage won in the exchages because Jardine's boxing is lacking and he doesn't move backward very well when he has to, leading him into brawl-or-die situations. QUOTE (MHizzle85 @ May 26, 2009 -> 02:36 AM) Again, Lyoto's biggest win is against Rashad and now only Fedor is the only person who can test him? Come on Lyoto fans, let's pump the brakes a bit. Defend the title a couple of times and THEN we can talk about him being on a Fedor type level. I'm just saying that Rampage is in a training camp now where he can be patient enough to wait Machida out and to wrestle him if he has to. If Lyoto were to beat him in decisive fashion, then i'll say he's great. Until then, he's very good to me. Yes, only Fedor can test him at this point because there are maybe only a couple guys out there right now that would be able to take Machida down, and those guys aren't well-rounded enough to keep him down and hurt him OR hurt him once he's down and then catch him on the feet once he's back up. Fedor is extremely quick, has extremely fast hands with big power, is extremely hard to hit, and is in no way an emotional fighter. As a striker, that is as close to the perfect style to give Machida problems as there is in MMA. If Fedor could evade Lyoto almost as Lyoto evades everyone else, there's the chance that Fedor would be able to beat him to the punch in the clinch and hurt him. I don't think Fedor would be quick enough coming forward to really nail Machida, but once Machida commits to something or once the distance closes in general, Fedor is quick enough to hit him since he reads his opponents and reacts to them pretty much instantaneously. The interesting thing though is wondering who would be the aggressor in that fight, and who would take the center of the octagon, since both are counter fighters who can be very aggressive when they want to be. Just being an overly aggressive, wide-open, forward-moving fighter like Shogun is not going to work in the least against Machida. I was calling Machida TKOing Thiago Silva when so many people were saying Thiago had a chance and that Machida didn't finish fights. Being aggressive and coming at Lyoto balls out is the stupidest thing you can do, because 1) it allows Machida to more easily evade the onslaught by hopping out of the way while the opponent's momentum carries him in another direction, 2) Machida's head his back in his stance, and his legs are forward, so you don't attack with punches, you attack with kicks, 3) it makes the opponent use much more energy while Lyoto uses very little evading, 4) it leaves the opponent open and usually off balance for a counter from arguably the best counter-striker in all of MMA, 5) Lyoto is a master of staying just out of range, and he's as quick moving backward as just about anyone else is moving forward. Machida is so good that there's just not much anyone can do. They can't catch him on the feet. Only very special wrestlers even have a chance at taking him down, and if it gets there, you have to keep him down without him subbing you. Either a truly elite wrestler with very, very good striking, specifically leg kicks; or a truly elite wrestler with a Jake Shields-like sub game; or a truly elite striker who is just as elusive as Machida and either has a very good wrestling game or a very, very good submission game that is enough to keep the fight on the feet or finish it should it go to the ground. Even if you were to bring in some great karate master with a similar style standing, then Lyoto would either beat him there or he'd just take him down (probably via trip) and submit/TKO him.

Speaking of Mike Tyson, this is horrible: Reports: Tyson's daughter hurt The daughter of boxer Mike Tyson is in critical condition after accidentally hanging herself, according to multiple media reports in Phoenix. Four-year-old Exodus Tyson was found hanging from a cord on a treadmill by her 7-year-old brother, according to reports. Her mother cut her down and began administering CPR before paramedics arrived. "Apparently she and her older brother were watching TV in the TV room," Phoenix police sergeant Andy Hill told KTAR radio station. "There was also a number of pieces of exercise equipment, and somehow the little girl got herself on a piece of equipment and she ended up kind of choking herself." Police told the media that the girl was in extremely critical condition at St. Joseph's Hospital. Mike Tyson was reportedly not at the home at the time of the accident but was rushed to the hospital. http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/ne...tory?id=4205023 ....I guess this just happened.

QUOTE (MHizzle85 @ May 24, 2009 -> 11:11 AM) Pretty entertaining night. Note to Sherk: You can't box well. Stick to wrestling, that seems to work for you. Dear Mr. Sonnen, thanks for delivering the worst fight of the night. McFedries still has crazy KO power, poor Professor X's UFC career may be over before it even started Matt Hughes didn't win that fight, but neither did Serra really. In my book it was a draw, but if I had to pick a winner it would of been Serra as he was more active in the 1st & 3rd rounds and looked like he was actually trying to finish the fight. Wow Lyoto, just wow. I'll wait until he defends it at least once before I start running around saying he's gonna be unstoppable. But a great KO regardless. Why? Nobody is fast enough, accurate enough, or technical enough to stand with him. Nobody has an explosive enough shot to take him down. Nobody in the UFC is beating Lyoto for a long time. I can't believe how many picked Rashad and I can't believe how many people actually think Rampage is a test. Rampage is 10X easier for Lyoto than Rashad was. Shogun will get obliterated by Machida. Fedor is the only one who can test him right now since Anderson will not fight a training partner and friend. The only guy I see as having a chance is Jonny Bones Jones down the road if he continues to develop. To beat Lyoto you have to either be able to take him down and beat him up a bit in order to slow him up on the feet enough to hurt him with kicks as he jumps in, or you have to take him down and keep him there. Jones is the only guy in the UFC and the only guy I've seen at LHW anywhere that has the athletic ability and the wrestling to possibly take Lyoto down, but it's going to be a while, because he'll need a complete game in order to beat Lyoto. Edit: Also you could be right about Professor X, but I think he accepted this fight on short notice, so while they could cut him, because of that and because of his potential I think they'll give him one more shot. Hopefully Kaplan is gone though. Hopefully Junie follows suit. The UFC really needs to dump some of these TUF rejects and stop letting go of the Rich Clementi, Luigi Fioravanti, Jason MacDonald type of fighters.

Mike Tyson, in part because of his lisp and in part due to shots to the head, constantly says intelligent things that come out very, very wrong. The thought is there though. I saw a documentary on him where he quoted The Ballad of Reading Gaol by Oscar Wilde. He's a pretty smart dude. BTW I love his quote on Jesus. And I don't know if it's on that list, but the "I'll f*** you 'til you love me, f*****" line is classic. Mike Tyson is f***in' great.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 25, 2009 -> 10:31 PM) For superstar prospects, I don't care about the arbitration clock. They'll be signed to a contract extension well before that becomes an issue. I hope so.

Ugh! Get Fields out of there now!!! I want Beckham called up for no reason!!! Beckham needs to become a FA as quick as possible!!!!

QUOTE (sox1844 @ May 25, 2009 -> 09:45 PM) I have a serious question.... how do you know about how vets feel about Ozzie? Just because a guy shuts up and gets paid, does not mean he loves Ozzie. It doesn't even mean he likes Ozzie, or respects him even a tiny bit. Have you ever bit your tongue around your boss?? Thought he was a raging idiot, but said nothing because you didn't want to make trouble? Hmm. It would be hard to see Ozzie as a raging idiot when 90% or more of the time he's either laughing, cracking jokes, or throwing sunflower seeds at someone. The national media types characterize Ozzie as a violent, angry, gay-bashing loose cannon. The reason? Unless Ozzie attracts attention by saying and doing controversial things, none of them pay attention. As for how we would know that veterans are telling the truth when they say they like Ozzie, consider this: At time, Garland, Contreras, Buehrle, Dye, and AJ re-signed with the Sox, avoiding free agency where they clearly would have bolted had they not wanted to play for Ozzie. Jim Thome and Javy Vazquez waived NTC clauses to come here, despite Ozzie's reputation in national media. Paulie left more money and a better climate on the table in order to return and play for Ozzie. Willie Harris, OC, and Swisher were the only players I can think of that had a problem with Ozzie. There was the Maggs issue, but Ozzie started that by attacking Maggs for his comments about JR. If there was a real problem, chances are we'd have seen or heard about a Toronto-style blow-up at some point.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 25, 2009 -> 09:20 PM) UGH. Rowand 123 ab,302 ab, 157 ab=582 ab Fields 20 ab, 373 ab,32 ab,145 ab=570 ab 20 AB = cup of coffee 373 AB = positive rookie season that made a lot of people very optimistic about his future 32 AB = emergency cup of coffee during a season where he was on one knee 145 AB = first actual opportunity to take the job and run with it, also his first healthy season

QUOTE (Soxguy @ May 25, 2009 -> 09:11 PM) Alexei is used to the heat and humidity, hopefully a few springs in Chicago will help him become a better cold weather hitter. Tons of players struggle in cold weather. Alexei doesn't need help adjusting to the cold weather; he needs help staying confident and putting his struggles behind him.

Congrats Thome!

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ May 25, 2009 -> 08:57 PM) Oooooooh, good examples!!!! Good thing we gave up on Crede, and Rowand, and Garland, who all came up and sucked too. I can play that game too. +1 Owens was a speed-only player and Terrero wasn't a prospect when he came here. Yes there have been busts, but that happens. Sometimes you have to take the chance, and there's no better time to take the chance on a young player than during a poor season in the middle of a f***ed up economy.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 25, 2009 -> 08:51 PM) How long does Fields have to suck before it can be determined he's not a championship quality 3rd baseman? Let him have at least 1 full, healthy season which up to this point he hasn't had. He was hurt in 2007 and still, it's hard to call his 2007 rookie season a disappointment. Let him prove he cannot adjust to MLB pitching. Let him prove he can't hit in the summer in the Cell. If the Sox tank this season, let him prove he can't hit all year. The only way I'd understand is if it's a contending season with super high expectations, but that is not the case this year. So far, we suck.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 25, 2009 -> 08:41 PM) I would bet if he's still struggling on June 1, he probably is going to have to look for apartments in Charlotte, and he'll only be able to blame himself. Its not like he's a kid. He's 26 years old with 570 AB a .299 OBP and 195 K. I would bet that if Quentin only misses a couple games (listening on the radio, didn't see where he got hurt) then Pods is going to get the majority of PT in CF. Just because you and I are probably right doesn't mean it's a smart decision. Beckham is not a 3B and there are no minor league options. If the Sox give up on Fields in order to start the clock on Beckham during a season where the playoffs seem unlikely, then the Sox prove once again how incredibly f***ing stupid they are capable of being.

QUOTE (BearSox @ May 25, 2009 -> 08:36 PM) I made that prediction before he ever came to the majors. I only saw Longoria on a few occasions, and I wasn't a huge fan of his approach, and he had a minor flaw in his swing. However, the Longoria I saw last year and already this year is nothing like the Longoria I saw in 06 and 07. I love his new approach up there and he's not nearly as open as he was before, and he's fixed the slight flaw in his swing. It was a crazy guess over a year ago before Longo was playing in the MLB. Completely different than this situation. However, nice find though. I'm sorry, but Fields hasn't shown me anything to believe he has the ability to make the adjustments needed. No question he's got the talent. I just don't think he's got the baseball know how to use that talent. Did you see Fields in Spring Training and at the start of the season when he was lining outside fastballs up and the middle and into RF? Fields is always going to K and he'll never win a GG but he can still be a good player or at least he can still do enough to net us something in a trade. If Viciedo was looking MLB ready now then maybe you take that case and close the book on Josh, but certainly not now.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 25, 2009 -> 08:32 PM) People were in love with Fields' homers and ignored all the other warning signs. Very low OBP, mediocre at best glove, extremely high K-rate. As I've stated before, in the middle of Sept. 2007, Josh was hitting .228 with a .284 OBP. Pretty similar to what he has now. It shouldn't be shocking he's not hitting .280 with 15 homers right now. I don't think anyone expected Fields to hit .280 this season. A Troy Glaus type of player is not out of the question for him, and that's not the type of potential that you give up on when you have *no other actual solutions.* As others have mentioned, Figgins will in all likelihood net Type A compensation after this year. To acquire Figgins while giving up that much talent is pointless, especially since this team has so many holes. Acquiring anyone in order to spot-patch an enormous gash is foolish unless said player will become a big part of the future, ala Peavy. Plus, none of our minor league 3B are ready. There's no reason to pull the plug on Fields just to plug in something else that either hurts the team or will not help enough. Let the kid prove he's not a Major Leaguer, i.e. give him more than the months of April and May when tons of players struggle.

QUOTE (BearSox @ May 25, 2009 -> 08:16 PM) 1/4 of the season is plenty of time to judge a player, especially a player entering his 4th year of MLB experience (granted two of the times were cups of coffee). He hasn't made any positive adjustments, and it's clear he's clueless at bat. The guy is a bust. His success in 07 was seemingly a first time around the league thing. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...t=#entry1568014 I remembered this because this was the first negative thing I'd ever read about Evan Longoria. You're a great poster, but none of us need to be saying such a talented player is not going to pan out after such a small sample size in one season. Fields showed in 2007 some of the things he is capable of, and he lost all year last year due to lingering injuries. He had an excellent ST and now that he's healthy he has been a lot better in the field than he'd shown coming into this season. Fields deserves a lengthy leash because it could end up paying off big. Plus Viciedo isn't ready, and apparently Beckham isn't a 3B. Retherford doesn't need to be rushed either.