Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 12:51 AM) De Aza has been unquestionably better than Viciedo the past two years, and it isn't even remotely close. I have never said otherwise. However, that doesn't mean he will be the better player going forward.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Jan 29, 2014 -> 09:49 PM) You are right, Viciedo had a slightly higher ISO, though De Aza hit more home runs. I also thought Viciedo had more PAs than he did. My point still stands, that it shouldn't even be close when it is the only thing Viciedo can (theoretically) do better than an average player. It's why De Aza has accrued 4.9 WAR over the past 2 seasons compared to Viciedo's 0.2 WAR. No doubt Viciedo has been a huge disappointment, but I still believe in the talent. Also, I feel that working with Steverson will help Dayan as much as anyone. Selective aggressiveness is Steverson's big philosophy and the lack of it is what's preventing Viciedo from becoming an impact hitter. Don't get me wrong, Dayan will always be a bit of a free-swinger, but even a small improvement in his selectiveness would make him way more dangerous at the plate.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Jan 29, 2014 -> 03:38 PM) For one, Viciedo has not yet managed to be a better player than him. Last year he was not even a better power hitter (his only plus tool?). You keep saying this for some reason, probably because De Aza was able to hit 3 more HRs than Viciedo in 43% more plate appearances. Fact is Viciedo's ISO was .161 and De Aza's was .142. Viciedo was the better power hitter...end of story.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 03:24 PM) I like what Stoltz adds to the internet, but he does get a little obsessive on certain guys he sees. Comparing Ravelo and Davidson is pretty silly. They are vastly different hitters in almost every way, for good and bad. Ravelo is also not a 3B. And of course they are at very different ages and levels of development. I like Ravelo, I have him as a 20-25 guy in this system, and I think he's only about a dozen fly balls/doubles going an extra 30 feet in a season away from being a serious 1B prospect. But he is nowhere near the prospect Davidson is at this point. Agree with all of this. Ravelo is my sleeper position playing prospect for 2014, but he's got to show a lot more power to make our top 10, let alone a top 100 list. Also, if he could stick at 3B, the Sox would have played him there last year.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 26, 2014 -> 01:08 PM) What's funny is that Dunn isn't even the worst player on the Sox but people hate him. People just hate strikeouts. Anyone that would have booed 19 year old Courtney Hawkins should have been blown up immediately though. He may not be the worst player on the team, but that doesn't mean he hasn't been the biggest dissapoinment. This is a guy who was regularly posting wRC+'s in the 130 to 140 range prior to signing with us. Last year he was paid $14M to post a wRC+ of 105 and provide negative value on defense. While some people may dislike him just for the strikeouts, I think most people hate him because he's a one-dimensional player who is no longer very good at that one dimension while making a f***ton of money. On top of that, Dunn is a guy who publically acknowledges he does almost no offseason work and doesn't appear to be in good physical condition come Opening Day. That's fine when you are producing on the field, but once age starts catching up with you and your physical abilities start to decline, maybe said player should start putting some work in the offseason and actually try to earn his paycheck. And while I will never condone fans for attacking him at a fan convention, as that's some cowardly s***, I don't think he deserves any sympathy from us if he gets booed during games. I'm sure in the minority on that, but I don't think he's a guy who's given his all with us. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's honestly the way I see things.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 25, 2014 -> 11:09 AM) You can't blame fans for being unhappy about Dunn still being here. Dunn is frustrating as hell to watch, but given our lack of offense and left-handed bats, he definitely has value to us against RHP regardless of what the common Sox fan may think. That said, I don't want to see him in a White Sox uniform after 2014 under any circumstance.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 25, 2014 -> 09:51 AM) How is Kolten Wong at #58 overall and Marcus Semien isn't even in the top 100? Semien may actually be a better player than Wong is. Doesn't make any sense. 100% agree. I don't see how Wong can be considered a significantly better prospect than Semien. I'm guessing people look at Wong's AAA line and forget he played in the PCL.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 25, 2014 -> 08:44 AM) Draft picks aren't the only way, or I'd argue the best way to build, at least not for the Sox. It's going to take a long time to build that farm system up Sox fans aren't going to sit through that. Look what has happened with the Astros getting beat in the ratings by a WNBA game. The Sox aren't going to the Astros extent in rebuilding, but they do have the Cubs to compete with. The Cubs farm system is stacked which is one reason why I believe the Sox chose ML-ready prospects in trades. The Sox can't afford to fall behind them in terms of Major League talent which could very well happen once the Cubs prospects start making it to the majors. For that reason, the focus for the Sox has to be on the big league level right now. You have to break a few eggs to make an omelet. That 2nd round fee it would cost for Jimenez, along with the big spenders not being interested, will keep his price down and you can recoup the value of the pick by dealing from rotation depth next offseason. The problem is Jimenez is incredibly inconsistent. Again, if we could get him for 2/$26M and he didn't cost a draft pick, I'd all be for him. We can afford to take short-term risks that only cost us money. Unfortunately, he's going to get 4 or 5 years and cost us a draft pick on top of it. He makes no sense for us. The risk is far greater than the reward here.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 07:10 PM) The depth of talent in this organization remains paper thin. The truth is Abreau, Eaton, and Davidson are question marks to one degree or another and beyond those three there's no position players arriving anytime soon. If Johnson and Beck bust there's no depth to deal to fill holes that arise. You have some fair points in this thread, but Hahn's goal right now it to improve the major league roster as much as possible without jeapordizing the future well-being of the organization. Guys that cost draft picks should be off limits unless they are true impact players and neither Jimenez or Santana fall under that label. Veterans can be added on cheap and/or short-term deals, but both pitchers you're talking about will require at least 4 or 5 years to get it done. I actually agree with you that we should spend money when opportunities present themself even if winning in the very near-term is unlikely. Some posters seem to think we'll develop this magical core all at once and then will spend our millions to plug these holes, but fail to realize there may not be players to fill our needs in future free agent markets. However, it's quite clear that isn't the case next year regarding starting pitching, which makes adding a Santana or Jimenez right now a bad idea.

I think this is a really good list. Just looking at the honorable mention section shows you how much deeper our system has gotten. I will say that Keenyn Walker & Braulio Ortiz are the biggest position player and pitching omissions IMO.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 22, 2014 -> 04:55 PM) And this is bad why? Marty has a legitimate point here. Our starting pitching depth is incredibly overrated, and don't take this the wrong way, but you're probably the biggest culprit of hyping it up. Sale & Quintana are legit, Johnson is extremely promising, but after that we have a bunch of question marks. I actually think Danks will rebound and if he does we'll have a damn good 1-4, but I'm much less confident in Paulino, Rienzo, or Surkamp being more than inning-eaters. After them, we have Chris Beck and a bunch of wild card prospects. Honestly, the only other prospect in the system with front of the rotation potential is Tyler Danish and while he may move fast, it would be foolish to expect it. The point is we're one injury away from our rotation being in trouble. On top of that, we could really use a #2 starter to fit between Sale & Quintana if we're looking for a championship caliber rotation. Maybe Beck breaks out this year or Danish goes Dan Hudson and ends up in AA by the end of the season, but there's a reason Hahn went after Tanaka so aggressively. We need that #2 starter and I'll be surprised if they don't continue committing all their available resources to finding one, including taking Hoffman in the draft if available.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Jan 21, 2014 -> 08:03 AM) Give me Kolek. A 6'5" 250lb flame thrower with a plus slider and decent curve at only 18 years old sounds great to me. High-school pitchers are too risky IMO, at least at the top of the draft. Right now, I'm still hoping Hoffman is there at #3.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jan 21, 2014 -> 05:56 AM) Ty Youngfelt ‏@TyYoungfelt 57m Theo in Tanaka pitch:"...you'll be our Kershaw, our Sabathia..."they know his personality,felt best approach was to sell him as 'the man'... How would this guy know this? I mean, how many people could have been in the room when Theo made his pitch? Seems to me that this Ty Youngfelt would be exposing his source by making this statement. I think this guy is full of s*** as well.

For those with little background on Loxas, here is what one poster on NorthSideBaseball said regarding his recent tweet that it was down to the Cubs & Yankees: On top of that, he reported a Cubs-Blue Jays trade involving Shark was "close" to happening in November and even knew what the Sox would require from the Cubs to trade Sale as if he listened in on some actual trade discussions. Apparently, this blogger has sources throughout the MLB, in multiple sports, and even across the Pacific Ocean!

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 20, 2014 -> 01:26 PM) Who the f*** is Tom Loxas? He's basically Steve with a Chicago-based sports blog.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jan 20, 2014 -> 01:23 PM) Well... TIFWIW.... But it may be over for us... https://mobile.twitter.com/TomLoxas/status/...336944038395904 Tom Loxas reporting its down to NYY and CHC. If a Chicago Now blogger is the one to break this story then every National Baseball writer should be embarassed.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 20, 2014 -> 08:25 AM) There is no lead. I will let you know when pen hits paper. I think I've said that 5+ times. Anything beyond that is wild conjecture and speculation. Frankly, there is smoke blowing and misdirection right now. You likely have teams leaking information that they are "done and out of it," "longshots," and "favored to get him." Reading too much into anything right now is just not the right move. Yeah, I don't really trust anything that's being reported by the US media right now. How dozens and dozens of reporters have sources with insider info on a Japanese free agent's thinking is beyond me. I'm guessing everything is real close to the chest right now with Tanaka and his agent. All the reports coming out of the US about teams "leading" the race, proposed terms, and even his preferences (including his wife) are likely speculation by reporters or misdirection created by MLB front offices.

QUOTE (CWSpalehoseCWS @ Jan 19, 2014 -> 01:49 PM) I could have sworn I read that after signing all their arb players they were still just under the luxery tax. Maybe I read wrong, but I assumed that it included A-Roid's suspension/salary removed. Yup, I posted an article in this thread a few days ago, but here is a breakdown of where they stand right now: http://nypost.com/2013/11/05/yankees-payro...n-road-to-189m/ So they are are at $171M not including the $11M they'll be charged for insurance and pensions and salaries for their pre-arb players and future minor league callups. In other words, they're probably $5M or so below the $189M threshold. Not nearly enough room to add Tanaka and remove their multi-time offender status. Clearly they're still pursuing Tanaka, but I don't think the Yankees will be blowing anyone out of the water, not if they want to get below the threshold anytime in the near future. And remember, A-Rod's full salary is back in play for luxury tax purposes next year. Adding Tanaka at a ridiculous salary will have long-term consequences for the Yankees.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 19, 2014 -> 12:10 PM) They have a team that can compete right now, they have a huge need for a front of the rotation pitcher, and they have $25 million in space under the luxury tax line this season. They make by far the most sense. It would actually be dumb of them to not offer him $25 million this season, he fills a direct need on an expensive, veteran-laden team that has a clearly designed "Win-now" roster. Balta, I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers from, but there is literally no way the Yankees can add Tanaka without going into the luxury tax short of selling off players.

Lol...I really hope this is true, but there is so much bulls*** out there right now who knows what to believe.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 19, 2014 -> 08:28 AM) http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-leag...08570--mlb.html In this article, the rumor was that the Cubs were at $160 plus the $20 million posting fee for 8 years. So $20 million a year for eight years, essentially. No way the Sox top that. Still has to be favored to end up with Yankees or Dodgers. From what I can tell, that rumor came from a Chicago Now blogger named Tom Loxas, so I'm not sure if I'd give the rumor any credibility. Just doing a quick google search, Tom reported in late November that the Cubs & Blue Jays could be close on a Shark trade, which obviously never happened. Seems like this guy is likely full of s***.

http://msn.foxsports.com/arizona/story/rep...o-tanaka-011814 That offer comes out to just below $18M per year without the posting fee and exactly $21M per year with it. Common sense would suggest this is likely the lowest of the five offers, but the question is how much higher would teams be willing to go? The Yankees & Dodgers are both luxury tax teams with Tanaka, which IMO will prevent them from blowing the other three teams out of the water. For the Cubs & Sox to have a chance, I think they'll need to either offer more money than LA & NY or will have to do something very creative. Given that we've heard that all the offers were above $100M, I think we can assume the ladder scenario is out. That concerns me, as part of me believes the Cubs are willing to do something stupid here. If not and Theo is simply using the press to blow smoke, I honestly believe there's a chance that the Sox have the top offer.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 18, 2014 -> 10:58 AM) I believe Levine also tweeted that having a big Japanese-American community would be important for where they choose. If so, then Tanaka will be signing with the Dodgers. I don't get why Levine thinks it's such a big deal that the Cubs offered a "real contract". Yeah, that was a pretty stupid tweet. I think it's safe to say that all the teams that met with Tanaka plan on offering him a contract at some point. Go ahead and report that the Cubs made an "official" offer, but Levine shouldn't be acting like it's some ground-breaking story unless he has some of the proposed terms.

QUOTE (timbo @ Jan 17, 2014 -> 05:00 PM) really cubs that just wrong and that why i can't take the cubs seriously Let's not pretend the Cubs organization had anything to do with those shirts. Rip the fans that bought them and actually wore them in public, but let's not act like the Cubs' marketing department created or distributed them. Not sure about those lame headbands though.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jan 16, 2014 -> 07:46 PM) I think that is the only way the Cubs will sign him. I'm actually more worried about the Cubs signing him than the Yankees & Dodgers. The Cubs have enough money to make a ridiculous offer without luxury tax consequences, desperately need to add quality starting pitching, and could use a major PR win with the fans. The Cubs are the one team IMO with the motives to do something really stupid here.