Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 18, 2012 -> 12:51 PM) See, even if Fukudome has a solid season for him, he's not going to turn this team into a contender. You know what might? Viciedo developing into a legit middle of the order hitter, the kind who other teams will fear. But we keep seeing our manager hide the kids from people to get the backup at bats, and Morel in particular said that really screwed with him last year. If Viciedo doesn't hammer the ball, then Fukudome putting up a .355 Obp won't make this team competitive. Play the kid. I agree that Viciedo developing into a legitimate middle of the order bat would be more beneficial, but let's not forget that Viciedo turns 23 next month and has limited major league at-bats. As high as am on him, I realize he's going to have some struggles next year. Take a look at his numbers against RHP last season for us and tell me you honestly think he's ready to play every single day. If you play him against all lefties and every other right-handed starter (based on matchups), I think you can minimize his struggles and maximize his production. Also, I'm simply referring to start the season. If he proves he can hit RHP well, then keep giving him more and more at-bats until he basically plays everday. I don't think there's anything with being somewhat cautious with a young player and putting him in situations that will increase his chance of succeeding.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 18, 2012 -> 10:18 AM) NO. Play the **** kid. Don't hide them, don't tell them they should be scared of the pitcher, don't tell them that they can't make it, don't tell them that they're not good enough. Sick to death of watching this team's manager convince every kid on the roster that they're not good enough and that there's nothing they can do because the guy behind him needs his at bats. I'm sorry, but the team's goal to start the season should be to win. It's not going to take very long to see if we're in store for another 2011-type season from Dunn, Rios, Beckham, Morel, Peavy, etc. If things go downhill quickly, then obviously guys like Viciedo and Flowers should start everyday regardless of matchups. Until we know which way this team is heading, the primary goal is to try to win. Fukudome should be an excellent #2 hitter against RHP for us. One way or the other, we'd be smart to get his bat in the lineup against RHP. That means Rios and/or Viciedo will have to sit sometimes. If you straight platoon Rios, you'll never be able to deal him. If you platoon Viciedo, you risk stunting his development. Clearly they both need to play against RHP and I think having play as equal amount makes the most sense to start the season. Let Robin play them based on matchups and hopefully their results actually improve. There's nothing more I want than to see Viciedo out in RF everyday, but I actually believe this team has a chance of being competitive and I want to know for certain before I don't take advantage of a useful player like Fukudome.

De Aza and Fukudome should be in the lineup everyday against RHP. I'd have Fukudome fill in for Viciedo and Rios equally, letting Robin go with the better matchup on any given day. Against LHP I'd go with an outfield of Viciedo, Rios, and Lillibridge everytime. I honestly think we'll get a lot of production out of our outfield if Robin handles the playing time correctly. Also, I'd bat De Aza and Fukudome 1st & 2nd against RHP. Not sure who I'd want batting 2nd against LHP, but I'd definitely have Lillibridge in the leadoff spot. A platoon of De Aza/Lillibridge should be a significant upgrade over Pierre. As long as Robin doesn't make the #2 hitter throws away outs all the time and he puts some OBP in the spot, that should also be an improvement over last year. I'm hopeful that the top of our order will much better without Pierre and Guillen.

QUOTE (dpd9189 @ Feb 14, 2012 -> 12:45 PM) Pros: Great glove, draws walks, history of starting out hot, nice cheap depth move Cons: Can't hit LH pitching at all, needs consistent at bats to be productive/not a great platoon player, 35 years old. Overall more of a depth signing and maybe more of a late inning defensive replacement then anything. Can draw walks very well but to be honest I wouldn't expect much. Well we need a bat off the bench that can hit RH hitting. He fits that need. As for consistent playing time, don't most players need that to be at their best? I would think a player who draws a lot of walks would be better in limited action, although that's pure speculation on my part. The defense is the other key. We now have two backup outfielders that can play quality defense. They bat from opposite sides of the plate, which offers a lot of flexibility late in games (a plus with Viciedo as our RF). Plus it now allows Lillibridge to play more IF. Overall, I think it's a great move and fills several needs quite well.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Feb 14, 2012 -> 01:45 AM) Yeah, but these are not the same circumstances. You don't detiremine what to pay a free agent international player who can sign anywhere he wants to play to a drafted player that has to choose either the contract, or waiting around another year to enter the draft again. A player stands to lose a lot more by not signing his draft deal versus not signing with 1 of the 30 teams in Free Agency. Those are apples and oranges. Thank you. And teams can't go out and simply sign a Strasberg for $15 million. You have to be the worst team in baseball to earn that right. As for the 15 Goodwins for one Soler, I'm sure everyone here would take the quantity over the one stud prospect. Unfortunately, as has been mentioned multiple times, teams will no longer be able to go over slot without consequences under the new CBA. The Cubans represented one last loophole under the old system. A team like the Cubs that is rebuilding and sitting on a ton of money is smart to overpay for some of these guys. Having said that, $27 million for Soler doesn't work for us and it's hard to blame KW for taking a pass.

QUOTE (JorgeFabregas @ Feb 13, 2012 -> 05:54 PM) He can't draft one? That's an even lower probability move and how long would it take for said player to become am impact bat? They clearly feel Cespedes is ready now or they wouldn't have agreed to a 4 year deal.

This is not a Moneyball move in the slightest. This is simply gambling on a potential middle of the order bat, because other options were too expensive or unwilling to come to Oakland. Beane realizes he has a huge need to fill (impact bat) in order for his team to ever have a chance of winning big and he's rolling the dice on Cespedes being that guy. Obviously it's a very risky move, but Oakland isn't going to win shot without that big bat to build around. Reminds me a lot of the Peavy move in that sense. Teams can make the playoffs without an ace, but KW realized having one expotentially increases your chances of winning once you get there. Unfortunatey, legit aces are damn near impossible to come by and cost a ton of money or talent to acquire. KW took a gamble on an injured Peavy and it didn't work out. I will always give KW a pass for that trade, because it was the right move to make given our circumstaces. That's why I can't fault Beane either. If he can't acquire a potential impact bat any other way, then he's got to get creative. I have no idea if Cespedes will live up to hype, but I totally agree with the reasoning behind the move.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Feb 9, 2012 -> 06:26 PM) Seriously? I had no idea. And guess who oversaw the farm back then? Kenny Williams. Funny how much things changed once he became GM.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Feb 9, 2012 -> 05:53 PM) I think it's easy to read when long paragraphs are split up. Honestly, are you Forrest Gump?

QUOTE (ptatc @ Feb 8, 2012 -> 09:11 PM) To be fair KW inherited him from Schueler and subsequently let him have too much free reign. I don't think KW should fall on the sword for someone he inherited even if it did happen on his watch. Bowden hired Rijo and thus was more responsible for him and his actions. I'm pretty sure KW hired Wilder from the Brewers and it was a highly regarded move at the time. IIRC, Wilder then went on to interview for the Red Sox GM job a few years later. Clearly the guy was considered a strong talent evaluator and had a great resume, so it's hard to blame KW for hiring him and trusting him in a significant role. The question is why did it take so long for KW to become aware of Wilder's illegal activities. It's one thing to have trust in an employee, but you still have a responsibility to oversee their actions and it doesn't appear that KW did a great job of that. Unfortunately, we'll never really know the details of the whole Wilder fiasco.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 8, 2012 -> 05:52 PM) Like he is trying to curry favor with the public. "Someone thinks I'm worthy of my job . . ." That's not the tone I got. I read his quote as him acknowledging that he's partially accountable for the team's poor performance of late and was willing to accept a lesser position if Jerry thought it was best for the team. I see no problem with him stating that to the media. At least he's admitting that he f***ed up, unlike someone else we got rid of. Also, what's wrong with him wanting to stay in the organization after leaving the GM spot? KW has his faults, both personally and professionally, but he seems like a loyal employee who would put Jerry's best interests first. For f***'s sake, he's taken a ton of abuse from the Guillen family over the past few years and really hasn't discussed it much with the media, which is not the type of person KW is.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 8, 2012 -> 05:29 PM) Dick Allen is right in this argument. It's weird that Kenny was the one who made it public that he offered to take another position in the organization. Why is it weird?

QUOTE (greg775 @ Feb 8, 2012 -> 03:21 PM) How Kenny has kept his job is beyond me. Dunn.Peavy. Rios. Those are the kind of baseball players who get a guy fired. If Reed fails at closer, he also gave away the Sox only closer candidate for this season. Sergio for nothing. Real wise. Oh I forgot. Ozzie didn't have to play Rios and Dunn so that takes Kenny off the hook. Oz is at fault for playing them. Please ban Greg...he's clearly trolling here.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Feb 8, 2012 -> 08:01 AM) I refuse to believe these numbers are correct. If they are, teams are just stupid. The Red Sox are stupid for paying Matsuzaka what they did. The Rangers are stupid for paying Darvish what they did. If Cespedes gets $50 million as basically the equivalent of a #1 draft pick...think about that....Strasburg got $15.1 million...Harper got $9.9 million...and you're going to pay Cespedes $50 million and Soler $20-30 million? Come on...these numbers are outrageous. I still think Cespedes ends up in the $32-35 million range and Soler comes in around where Dayan's contract did. These comparisons to the draft are ridiculous. Strasburg & Harper weren't free agents, so comparing them to free agents makes zero sense. Strasberg easily would have gotten Darvish money if he were available to the highest bidder, but instead being subject to the draft limited him to $15 million. That in no way, shape, or form reflects his real value. So please stop comparing what guys on the open market cost relative to guys in a restricted market.

QUOTE (Baron @ Feb 7, 2012 -> 10:28 PM) Was just a joke. I was mainly talking about that stupid carnival style sign they have. Soler at $20 to $25 million just makes so much more sense than Cespedes at $60 million. Put him in Winston Salem with Thompson & Walker to start next season and hopefully you have Rios' replacement ready in 2014 or 2015 when he's either tradeable or gone. That's when we should be targeting to be competitive again.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 4, 2012 -> 12:51 PM) I think it's smarter to let someone else grossly overpay for middling talent whether that talent is 18 or 28. The importance of minor league talent has been extremely exaggerated the last couple of years. Please elaborate.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 4, 2012 -> 11:56 AM) . . . So the Cubs panicked. Listen, I despise the Cubs and actually think Theo is somewhat overrated. His previous organization had a significant competitive advantage over the vast majority of teams in baseball (money) and used those resources to develop a strong farm system. IMO, that doesn't make him a genius, it just shows he was smart enough to take advantage of a flawed system. Now that the system is changing, I think we'll have a better idea just how good Theo is. However, the system is currently in an in-between phase and there are still ways to take advantage of it. The Cubans represent a loophole and Theo is using his financial advantage to bring in more talent while he still can. Like I said, what should he spend the $7 million on instead? Something that helps his losing major league team this year? Ricketts is focused on a long-term plan and has already allocated a lot of cash for the draft and international signings. That cash loses it value next year once the cap is in place. Theo is smart to spend it now while he still can, even if the cost of young talent is far more expensive than it's been previously.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 4, 2012 -> 11:29 AM) I think that's overstated. First, what alternatives will the international players have? Second, HS'ers won't be able to better their signing bonus by all that much by going to college. The HS'er who is worth an $800,000 signing bonus will be drafted in the appropriate slot now, not in the 12th round. You do realize that international spending will be capped in the new CBA? Teams will only be able to acquire so much talent. A team like the Cubs will not be able to simply throws piles of money at Latin American players like they had originally planned. They will have a set dollar amount to work with, which will slow down their rebuilding plans. So now they are being proactive and going after the Cubans, because they can use their huge piles of money they've been saving to improve the talent base of their organization while they still can. Conception is far from an elite prospect, but he makes more sense than spending $7 million on a reliever or some other major league piece that won't help the Cubs win anything.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 4, 2012 -> 10:05 AM) It is still $7 million we are talking about. That doesn't change. The talent of Concepcion also doesn't change. You didn't get Bryce Harper, you got a 5th starter at best. I don't get what your point is. The $7 million was the market rate for Conception. Multiple teams bid on him and one felt he was worth $7 million. I'm sure others made offers close to that amount. Would he have gotten this much money last year? Definitely not, but this is an entirely different market. Teams are willing to spend big dollars to get the best talent they can before Latin American signings and the draft become capped. The value of young talent is simply greater now and that requires a premium in terms of cost. Maybe he was worth $3 million last year, but in today's market he's worth $7 million. So people can call it an overpay if they like, but I'd rather recognize it as the result of a new, unique marketplace. As for the talent comment, what do you mean it doesn't change? The kid is 18 years old. His ceiling is based on current projections of how his body and pitches will develop. Those projections will change as he gets older and continues to develop. He's no different than any other high-school pitcher in that sense. If you really don't think talent can change, then explain how Matt Moore went from an 8th round draft pick to one of the best pitching prospects in baseball.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 4, 2012 -> 08:03 AM) Wait, this kid is 18! Do you know how many 18 y.o. pitchers in professional baseball never see the big leagues due to injury alone. This is a strange signing because if you wait a year a similar pitching prospect will cost you what 1/10th this price? Concepcion doesn't have the stuff to merit this price tag. Because in a year you will be limited on how many dollars you can spend. If you're trying to rebuild and have money to burn, why not bring in as much talent as possible right now? Building through the draft and Latin American signings is going to take longer under the new CBA, since teams can no longer spend freely. The Cubs are smart to take advantage of this loophole while they still can, even if they have to pay a premium for the talent.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 4, 2012 -> 08:10 AM) Or would you rather take your chances on 16 Latin players giving them $500k each? The bottom line is if this guy was eligible for the draft, he' probably be lucky to get a decent fraction what he's getting from the Cubs. Maybe he's a key in getting another of the Cubans. Other than that, there are a lot of 18 year olds who throw 86-90 and dominate the lesser leagues they are playing in that will get nowhere near $8 million. If this guy were in the draft, would he be a top 10 pick? Bryce Harper got $6.25 million. $4 million is the recommended slot for the #1 pick. There has to be some reason the Cubs made this much of an overpay. What is so difficult to understand here. Conception's price was driven up because he's a free agent. Harper was a draft pick that had no competition for his services and the only leverage he had was threatening to sit out a year. They are completely different situations and there is no comparison to be made here.

QUOTE (Pale Sox @ Feb 4, 2012 -> 04:54 AM) Lefties his age with that velocity aren't rare, you're right. But lefties his age with that supposed velocity and command of it (and off-speed stuff) are. He is a low ceiling guy, but also a high floor guy. His scouting reports remind me a lot of David Holmberg at a similar age. This is the key point, the guy has a pretty good chance of being a back of the rotation starter. Floor may not be worth the same as ceiling when signing amateur free agents, but if you feel confident the kid can stick as a left-handed starter, as his floor suggests, then he's fairly valuable, even if his upside is likely to be that of a solid #4 or #5. What is an average #4 worth a year in terms of WAR? More than $1.75 million? If Conception's deal is for four years, then that's his annual salary. Is $1.75 million really that hard to exceed as a starter? Plus the kid is only 19. There's always the chance his fastball goes up a couple ticks or he learns a new pitch. He's still a relatively unknown quantity and his ceiling has a better chance to grow than his floor has to fall. Also, the comparisons to Cole are stupid, as one player was available in a free market and one was not. Cole would have gotten a s***-load more money if he was a Latin American free agent in this post new-CBA environment.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 3, 2012 -> 04:57 AM) I have no problem with that deal for the Cubs. An 18 year old already throwing 86-90 who pitched well in a league that is supposedly equivalent to AA is extremely impressive. He may have room to grow and develop too. That's a worthwhile investment as far as I'm concerned. Especially when international signings and draft spending will be capped in the near future. The Cubs definitely spent more money here than they would under the previous CBA, but the value of young talent has also increased significantly. When resources are limited, you end up paying a premium.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 2, 2012 -> 05:12 PM) Where the Sox get talent from is irrelevant to me. Dick Allen is right when he says this will take years to develop and will take at least that long to say if the Sox effort was successful. It's like the argument that the Sox don't spend on the draft. Maybe it's because they feel that they aren't very good at scouting amatuers. I think all the prospect gurus are trying to make the MLB draft as important to building a team as the NFL or NBA drafts. Truth is, it's not. Are you serious? Are you really suggesting that completely ignoring one of the largest providers of talent isn't a big deal? How exactly would you build a consistent winner without strong contributions from the draft and amatuer international signings?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 2, 2012 -> 06:18 AM) While I will applaud any effort to make the organization and scouting in particular better in any way, I'm not going to get too excited about the Sox stronger presence in the DR. It can help, but it probably will take a while, and the entire cast of characters from JR to KW to Ventura will probably be gone before it really pays off. I read last year the typical DR prospect takes 8 years to develop. How long it takes is irrelevant. We had a major flaw within our organization that is finally being addressed. We should all be ecstatic about that, because we've basically been trying to compete with practically no contributions from Latin America signings (outside of Cuba) since Ordonez & Lee. It's a miracle we've been as competive as we've these past few years all things considered and clearly it's been catching up to us as of late.