CyAcosta41

The clarity (relatively speaking) of the morning after can always hurt. Haven't read this thread yet today, so apologies if I'm repeating what other posters have already said. Yesterday was pain, disappointment, and anger. Today, for me, is major disappointment of an opportunity lost and recognition of what's in store for us (unless people look in the fricking mirror and change). 1 -- MONSTER OPPORTUNITY WASTED to land a 26 year old superstar in a position of need. All the big boys out of the game, Manny was there for the taking. Failing to land him made it clear that two things are in play: (a) dogmatic, crappy negotiators who can't close a deal when it needs to be closed; and (b) fundamental failure to understand what motivates most if not all star athletes (THEY get the sweetheart deal -- not you; YOU bear most if not all of the risk of failure to perform, while they have the comfort of the guaranty). Didn't land the superstar now and doesn't bode well for landing other top-tier talent when we have the tougher competition also at the table. 2 -- You don't do what the Sox did with signing Alonso and Jay (and arguably a few others as well) unless you are 100% certain that you are landing the prize that made these other players interesting as bait. The risk was extreme UNLESS the deal was done, or all but done. Because if you don't land the whale, then you have a huge mess on your hands. Two decent players and undoubtedly fine human beings who know they are not wanted. Teammates who know this about their fellow player as well. And a bigger than the Sox brass might believe contingent of fans who see these players as a botched and failed experiment -- reminding them of failure, plus taking time away from parts of the actual future that must be assessed. All will be forgiven by me if they land Harper. I know some were hoping for both whales, but that was always a pipedream for me. Perhaps they played Manny as they did because they believed it was truly the only way to possibly land both. And perhaps the plan has always been if they didn't land Manny, then they pay exactly what it takes to get Harper. And perhaps my wife will search out Alicia Vikander and convince her what a good time would be had by all in coming to live with us. Just not a lot on actual Planet Earth to think that such things will actually happen.

Very disappointed, like most of you. For me, all of the stars were in alignment here -- 26 year old superstar; position of need; no adults' table, just the kid's table; incredibly low payroll for the forseeable future; loads of young talent on the horizon -- but sometimes you simply need to win. Not be the voice of reason (1990s reason). Not go down in flames being so afraid of bidding against yourself. I had no problem with slow walking the market in order to keep your winning bid "reasonable enough." Lots of reasons to suspect they had a chance to match. Likely all they had to do was match because of the personal factors that likely had MM leaning towards Chicago (I understand -- lots of "likelies," but those likelies seem, well, likely). Where I was disappointed -- again -- is this dogmatic refusal to drop the plan at the 11th hour, take consolation that you didn't let things get out of hand, and win. No matter what, win. Team needs it. Fans need and deserve it. Go beyond your carefully constructed projections over the next 8-10 years. For once, win. Win. Sox had to get one of these guys. Maybe I leaned Machado like many of you, but Harper will work too. Won't hold a grudge on this eminently winnable negotiation IF they buck up and get Harper. Unfortunately, there is not one damned reason to suspect that anything will be different this time.

Hey, just one man's opinion, but FWIW: Personally, can't really understand the freaking out about any of this when nobody posting here with any regularity knows much of anything, factually, beyond the tripe written and posted by those paid to be controversial and generate clicks. With that in mind, I'm somewhat encouraged. Perhaps it's because as a commercial transactional attorney with a great deal of it being in the commercial real estate arena, I think I have a bit of a feel for JR and Hahn, their style, and their methods and strategies. From Day #1, I sensed they knew they had a plan and they were going to stick with it. I might be reading many of the Sox Talk posters wrong, but seems to me that most seemed to admire the "plan" at the start, but now, after all this time, and/or with the recognition that the market is seemingly more favorable, many are now looking to dump the plan and instead pay "stupid money" or "bid against themselves." I can't see JR or Hahn EVER doing that. The thing about plans is that very few are disciplined enough to stick to that plan when it's taking forever, when you're tired of all the sh*t, when the finish line looms ahead. But that often separates those with a track record of success from those who just can't keep the focus. No sauces here; no special insights beyond Life 101. I think the heavy lifting is largely over. We're down to a bit of posturing. Everyone is using what they have. Lozano? It's pretty clear what he is. Old school schlock. That's why the chairman is handling him -- he's seen much worse. I feel pretty confident that Lozano knows the Sox will make every effort to win the bidding war (absent "stupid money" for this team at this time), but I'm certain JR and Hahn have made the point that they will not bid against themselves and be Tom Frickin Hicks. In turn, it's posturing and it's childish, but you work out Moncada at 3B (and that SHOULD be a part of his bag of tricks, in most scenarios anyway), so Machado's buddies -- Yonder, Jay -- can report back to him about what's happening and urge him to just do it already. Hey, like any long-time Sox fan I've been disappointed and have misread things plenty of times. But until Machado signs elsewhere I have a probably misplaced sense of calm. Sure -- I understand the risk -- but you don't bring in Yonder and Jay UNLESS you fully intend to take this to the very last day. MM is a perfect fit for THIS team at THIS time. The stars are in alignment with ALL of the big boys out of the bidding. I do think they're going to get it done, but they're going to do it their way, not how the collective wisdom of Sox Talk think they should do it. We know that Rick Hahn reads this thread. Pretty obvious that he does. Well, do it your way, Rick. Fine. But please ... just ... get ... it ... done!

Matt ... You and the gang have done amazing work at FutureSox. I always look forward to seeing what updates you've made each time I bop on over and visit. Congrats on the big changes. Here's hoping everything about it exceeds all expectations! One minor negative is the sonic quality of the Podcast. I've got some tangential involvement in some related industries, so I know comparing what FutureSox can broadcast to the Big Boys isn't necessarily fair. That said, while Clint, Brian, and others have done great substantive work (and always appreciated), the listening experience is unfortunately a bit harsh. Perhaps harsher than it needs to be. Just nitpicking for the sake of an even greater FutureSox overall experience. You guys rock. Cy

Ha. That will teach me about being away from the computer all day. Stayed awy because didn't want to ride the waves of the Manny visit while it was happening. In any case, yes, unlikely to get Harper too (Phils will probably offer the moon at that point), but bring in a solid pro of a starter and a solid pro of an outfielder to get respectable this year (with a puncher's chance of something crazy happening). But in the meantime, teach the kiddies something about what it takes to be a pro. Guys like Anderson and Moncada (and soon Eloy) have all the talent in the world. Learning to use it for the overall good of a TEAM is what's needed. No way do the Sox bring in Manny without bringing in a few more pros for the expected upswing of 19/20/21. Damn about Brantley -- personally, I think he's highly underrated.

Old enough that I try not to get caught up in the whatifs, but, man, Manny Machado is simply such a perfect fit for this ballclub. Assuming he comes to his senses and plays 3B -- where he's a complete stud -- everything about this team changes. Sure, take a run at Harper too, but unlikely that happens. In fact, perhaps divide Harper's money for the next few years and bring in Brantley and Dallas Keuchel for 3 year deals -- and have left-over $$$ for possible pennant stretch acquisitions in 2020 and 2021. Brantley in particular could be such a good fit for this team of free-swingers. Teach by example the benefit of contact hitting (at least when it matters). And yes, he's lost a lot in the OF, but he starts in CF between the Palkas, Eloys, and Alonsos of the world, but shifts to a corner at the end of many games when Engel or Leury adds some speed. This team -- now -- needs a top-echelon talent, a true star. Yes, we have a lot of potential stars coming up through the ranks, but take the pressure off the kids by putting it on the shoulders of someone who has actually reached that level. I'm optimistic because despite their many missteps (and some out-and-out pratfalls), I do think that Hahn and Jerry R. are serious intelligent guys and they "get it." So don't just get it, guys ... get it done!

The serious answer: 1 -- Louie Aparacio 2 -- Joel Horlen 3 -- Dick Allen 4 -- Mark Buehrle 5 -- (Tie) Konerko / Fisk / Thomas / Thome And the eclectic list of personal favorites through the decades (roughly chronological, but in no particular order of preference): Ken Berry; Bruce Howard; Gary Peters; Jerry Nyman; Buddy Bradford; Cy Acosta (!); Terry Forster; Rich Gossage; Pat Kelly; Ken Henderson; Jim Kaat; Oscar Gamble; Ken Kravec; Nyls Nyman; Britt Burns; AJ; Sweaty Freddy; Quintana; Sale. (And coming soon to a ballpark near you -- Eloy; Cease; Dunning; Madrigal)

Good to see you too, man. Yeah, in the pre advanced stat area where things like BA reigned supreme, I remember marveling endlessly that Buford and Berry tied for top spot BA on that great '67 team at .241. That seems impossible by today's standards. And revisiting with the lens of a somewhat advanced stat like OPS, Pete Ward led was the only plus-700 OPS-er at .726. Tommie Agee was next at .672, followed by everyone else mid .650s and lower. Stated differently, Adam Engel would have been a middle-of-the-pack offensive performer on that team. Amazing. Definitely shows that outstanding pitching and plus defense (not sure just how outstanding the defense was other than Ken Berry -- and who knows what advanced metrics might have shown us beyond the eyeball test of the day) could indeed take you far. But you needed just a little help from the offense too. So much pressure on the pitchers. All that said, given the old adage about pitching carrying you in the post-season, you wonder whether some of the teams might have cleaned-up in the post-season if somehow they just could have got there. Always imagined that these staffs might have dominated in the one and done World Series round, much like: '65 -- Koufax and Drysdale vs Twins '66 -- McNally and Palmer vs Dodgers '67 -- Gibson (more or less by himself) vs Red Sox '68 -- Lolich and McLain vs Cardinals (and Gibson again) '69 -- Seaver and Koosman vs Oriles (Cuellar, McNally, and Palmer) Pitching and defense meant so much in those World Series games. The Sox might have done well -- albeit eeking out the single run necessary to win might have still been a challenge.

Absolutely. I just mentioned a couple of years, but the combo of great talent, spacious fences in the Old Comiskey, and long infield grass produced year after year of staff-wide stellar pitching. The starters were studs, but the bullpen rocked too -- in an era when bullpens were largely an after-thought, often a collection of failed starters. The youngsters here will recognize knuckleballers Hoyt Wilhelm and the bullpen version of Wilbur Wood, but the criminally underrated Bob Locker, plus Don McMahon, Dennis Higgins, Juan Pizzaro, and Eddie Fisher (another stud knuckler guy) meant than when said stud starters weren't throwing complete games (or nearly so), those Sox teams were bringing in real talent to finish the game. I've heard all of the stories about all of the attempts to bolster the offense. Failed attempts at deals to bring in top talent. Misguided efforts to raise end-of-career talent from the dead -- Rocky Colavito and Ken Boyer, anyone? It's just truly sad to look back at those pitching staffs and remember that the anemic offense made 2nd place about the best that could be hoped for (other than in the debacle of the 1967 classic el-foldo down the stretch).

Sox fans of a "certain age" couldn't get enough Horlen and Berry and Peters and Aparacio. The pitching on the '66 - '68 teams was insane. If only those teams had any hitting at all -- for one thing, '67 might have been a WHITE Sox/Cardinals Series instead of Bosox/Cardinals. My personal favorites from that era were pitchers Horlen, Peters, Bruce Howard, and Tommy John, plus Little Looey and Ken Berry. As far as Gentleman Joe (Joel) Horlen was concerned, one of my most memorable White Sox fan moments was sitting in a booth for 4 and spending 3-4 hours talking baseball, eating pizza, and drinking beer (Lou's on Wells) in October 2012 with Joe and Mike Epstein (Senators/Rangers/Oak; also baseball hitting coach known as Ted Williams's hand-picked hitting coach disciple). Joe was on the decline already, but still one of the nicest and most genuine human beings I've ever had the privilege to meet. Soft-spoken; humble; genuinely modest about his career, including posting some crazy amazing stats in his hey-day. For the 'utes among us, it wouldn't be entirely inaccurate to think of Joe as a Greg Maddux type. As a 9 year old, I had the privilege of being there for his no-hitter against the Tigers. I remembered a fair amount about that game, but, of course, knowing that I was going to have dinner with Joe, I studied up on the highlights too. He had clearly forgotten a lot of it, but he couldn't get enough about my own memories, plus the deep-dive that I had done not only about that game, but his career -- who he was good against (and who hit him hard), plus who he had a little success against as a hitter (Joe was not a particularly good hitter; Gary Peters -- who some thought could have made it as a hitter and actually pinch-hit a bit for these hitless wonder Sox teams -- was the hitting pitcher on the team). And while some of the details of his career had clearly become a little foggy, he had quite a few colorful recollections about interactions with some of the superstars of the day -- including some stories about his winter playing with Roberto Clemente in Puerto Rico in the early 60s -- Joel thought Clemente was the best player he had ever seen. And Mike Epstein -- simply a great guy as well. He had traveled with Joel and was very protective of his little buddy (Joel was a regular sized 5'11 or so guy and Mike Epstein was a 6'4 moose). They had been teammates on the 1972 Oakland A's -- Joel's last year in baseball, the only year he had NOT pitched for the Sox, and that A's team won the World Series of course against the Big Red Machine! During our night at Lou's, Joel made sure to tell the waitstaff that this quiet Texan had thrown a no-hitter and for a 5-6 year run was one of the best pitchers in the game -- the fine folks at Lou's did their part and supplied some free beer for the hero of the evening. So sorry to hear that time and a truly harsh disease has had its way with one of the real good guys (baseball or anywhere). Be well, Joel Horlen!

Great insights. And Julie ... for realzzzz ... great writing!!!! I humor myself to think that I know just a little about GREAT writing.

Evaluating talent is of course always subjective, but I do think that if you wind-up with the fourth pick in the entire draft, you can't be so fearful of "failing" and not hitting on it" that you go overly safe. I can't see using that pick on anyone that doesn't have the ceiling of "special." BPA at the 1-4 level almost certainly requires that. Now, perhaps the brain trust believes Singer can be special. Not sure I see that. Not at all. At the major league level, he seems to be an "intangibles" guy with nothing special on the "stuff" front. That's okay. Every team needs such guys. And every team has them -- on their 40 and throughout their system. Hoping for a little more with this draft. I think you can make a case for a "special" ceiling for each of Madrigal, Bohm, and Bart. Perhaps even Kelenic. Grab Singer, Phils. Don't tempt the brain trust. Please. Now, if Mize drops, then there is a decision because easy to see that he's a great college pitcher with the definite chance of a special career as a pro.

And we'll know the answer soon, folks! Like many of you -- love this time of year. This draft is particularly important given the rebuild. It's a shame that this is one of those years with limited or no "super talents" at the top. Personally, I think Mize is without question the only definite superior talent on the board. You can pick 10-20 other names and make a case for a future outstanding career, but all come with projection concerns. If I'm the Sox, I go into the draft with this board: Mize -- unlikely that he falls, but strangers things have happened Madrigal / Bohm -- whichever is available, if both, then Madrigal If all three of the above are taken, then best available physical talent with the chance of being an impact big leaguer (I'd consider Kelenic, Swaggerty, India, and even Gorman -- I'm not on the Singer train because that style of player is ubiquitous and we have a good track record of either developing them or finding them elsewhere). And then, later in the draft -- PREP players over and over again, balancing out the system for the longer-term. Going to first Sox game of the year on Saturday. '83 Road Jerseys. Joked with a friend before I bought the tickets prior to the beginning of the year, I knew that somehow I'd get a Shields start. Reflection on how tough this year has been is that it turns out that 2018 Shields is my very best chance to see a Sox win. Who would have thunk that?

I've never been one to talk about trolling or otherwise ascribe bizarro world motivations, but you can't be serious, Greg. Or, perhaps you are serious, but self-described "baseball aficionado (at times)," or not, you don't have a particularly in-depth understanding of the great game of baseball. As far as that looking like a catcher thing ... the vast majority of catchers have been big, burly, beefy guys. They were called backstops and functioned as backstops. Sure, you can cherry-pick a few exceptions to the rule, but they are exceptions. And that's all the time I have for this, because, in the end, who cares what a solid player "looks like." Jose Altuve looks like a little leaguer, but I'd take him on my team in a heartbeat. The more fundamental problem with your recurring TA to catcher comments is that it shows no understanding about the training involved in catching and the mentality of those who catch. Emergency catchers aside, virtually everyone who catches at any advanced level of baseball has caught every day of their baseball playing life and wants to do nothing more in life than catch. These dudes are warriors. They live for catching. Not only are they involved in every single play on the field, they have to develop a rapport with the entire pitching staff, many of whom are nearly out-of-their-mind, all the while taking a physical beating like few others in sport. They are in every respect the on-field captain and they are the only player on the field who plays in the right direction -- all other players face backward! Tim Anderson is a gifted athlete who no doubt COULD catch (and learn a lot about in an off season), but the pounding of catching absolutely destroys bodies and damages hitting, running, and so forth. Why would you do that to Tim? And why is this even being discussed?

Love that we're targeting and (finally) getting some potential position player studs like Moncada, Jiminez, and, evidently, Rutherford. These types don't come cheap in today's game. That has to be factored into analyzing this trade. The Sox simply need as much top level talent as they can amass -- hence $50M on Robert, hence taking quality over more 10-15 types in this deal. Haven't seen it mentioned, but I read the Clippard take as helping the Yank-mes with cash, but also, it has a Clippard return to the Nats trade written all over it. So maybe we're really talking a Nats 10-20 guy instead!

Prioritizing sensible development plans of the potentially valuable arms of the future is what matters the next couple of years. So, good pick-up for our "now." That said, this particular move is so quintessentially White Sox. So KW. He always gets his man. All those overhyped Mets pitching prospects of 2005-2010? Humber, Pelfrey, Parnell. The Sox won't quit until we get 'em all!

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Apr 16, 2017 -> 05:37 PM) Kinda sucks that Holland, Shields and Robertson are going to steal Cy Young votes from each other. That does suck. But Sale is going to win it anyway. You know -- East Coast media bias.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 06:19 PM) Has nothing to do with Christmas or getting the prospects ASAP. For me it's about overplaying his hand and having the other teams call your bluff that I'm worried about. You're not alone -- others have mentioned worrying about Rick overplaying his hand. I don't get the concern. At least I don't get it quite yet. It's 18-January; we've got roughly 75 days until the Sox open up on 3-April. Other than rumor, speculation, and possibly team spread leaks, we've got exactly zero hard evidence of who has offered what. But what we know for a certainty is that Q is currently the top available arm by far -- durable, consistent, professional, and by all of the generally accepted metrics a top 10-20 starter for the past four years in ALL OF BASEBALL. If that wasn't enough, he's under control for four years on an absolutely killer contract that provides near unheard of surplus value. Why the concern that Rick is OVERplaying his hand (when it's only 18-January)? Why not give the 2016/2017 version of Rick Hahn ... the dude who has shown his bona fides this year ... the guy who is clearly having an MVP offseason ... the benefit of the doubt? For the time being, why not assume that Rick Hahn is simply PLAYING his hand (not overplaying it ... playing it intelligently and with skill)? For the moment and arguably through the end of spring training, the Sox have ALL the leverage. Given what has transpired thus far this offseason, why take the risk of leaving "money on the table" by accepting the best deal now when the best deal later can very well be superior. I understand some concerns of a long-term hold and an overall shift in leverage when other top pitchers are available, but it sure looks like through 3-April there is one top dog, and we've got him. At worse, some close variation of deals that are available now will still be available on the last day of spring training (or the first day of spring training, take your pick). But Rick has no idea whether another 30-75 days of waiting will ratchet up the pressure on at least one potential trade partner such that they lap the field. I think he's playing his cards masterfully!

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 02:00 PM) Arguing on a message board is always healthy. Touche. I don't disagree. There is a difference between arguing (sparring, jousting, call it what you will) and true worrying. My post was intended for those unfortunate few who are truly "worrying."

Fellow Sox fans! Ladies and Gentlemen! Relax. Take that chill pill. Just checked the calendar. Yep. It's still 18-January. Seems to me that most of the sparring here breaks down into people falling into two major factions -- (1) those who want Ranger Rick to be strong, studly, and resolute, bringing home mega value for this hugely valuable trade chip, no matter how long it takes; and (2) those who also want max value of course, but who for one reason or another have this nagging feeling that Hahn is being unrealistic and overplaying his hand (despite absolutely zero hard evidence that support this nagging feeling) and therefore he's going to botch this golden opportunity. I don't believe that there is really anyone here advocating trade for trade's sake; instead, I think those getting that tag are simply the most conservative sub-faction of Faction #2. What do we actually know today? Just one thing -- Hahn is almost certainly willing to trade Jose Quintana if he likes the deal. That's it. Everything else -- EVERYTHING -- is simply rumor and supposition (including rumor and supposition almost certainly leaked/planted by the actors involved in our little drama). Thing is ... the reason it pays for everyone to relax ... because it's 18-January, and whether you fall into Faction #1 or Faction #2, all hard evidence should make you feel comfortable. If you fall into Faction #1, then it's 18-January, there is infinitely more pressure on the potential purchasers than on us, and all signs point to Rick being strong (as he was in both the Sale and Eaton deals), demanding the proper quid pro quo for his supremely valuable trade chip. If you fall into Faction #2, then it's still 18-January, the season opens Sunday, 2-April (Sox open at home on Monday, 3-April), and there are roughly 75 days left before the season opens, 75 days where the pressure ratchets up on the prospective purchasers, and NOT at all on us, with Rick being able to consummate a pre-season deal at the time of his choosing that allays all of your nagging feelings (sure, weirdness can happen and Jose's arm can fall off pitching in the World Games, but Q's track record demonstrates that's a risk worth taking). Seems to me that it's healthier to worry about things when it's time to worry. We're far away from the time to worry on 18-January!

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 09:58 PM) I hate to break it to you, but that is not how a market works. Jose Quintana is not a fungible good or a widget. He is not a barrel of oil or a bail of hay or a megawatt of electricity or a british thermal unit of natural gas. He is a unique and rare asset and sometimes such assets require time to find the right buyer. Such an asset necessarily is expensive and thus the number of buyers is lower than less expensive assets. There is no rush here. There is only impatience. You go, Shack! I've been tempted to say almost exactly this over and over again the past few weeks, but never got around to it. Perhaps a different analogy may persuade some of the naysayers. Let's talk real estate. So many starters are little more than interchangeable houses in a cookie-cutter subdivision -- there are always plenty available in any given market, many buyers looking at most of them, and comps that any realtor can produce that ultimately demonstrate a narrow range of offer and acceptance pricing. Jose Quintana ain't no subdivision. He's custom-built, all the upgrades, built-to-last, and sitting on a premium lot with a one-of-a-kind view. There is little in the way of true comps and a deal is ultimately struck when the buyer who must have that particular house ultimately ponies up enough so that the current owner is willing to let it go. Back to baseball -- depending on the metrics you choose to emphasize, Q is a top 10-20 starter in ALL OF BASEBALL, he's likely a surer bet for 200 IP with outstanding traditional and advanced metric numbers as anyone, he's seemingly a pitching machine with as little risk of injury as anyone, and he's locked up for another 4 years under a contract that provides the kind of surplus value that happens a couple of times a decade! Perhaps Rick won't get the Sale or Eaton deal, but he's looking to get darned close to that. And he should. No way do we sell the Q with a view dream home without getting back a couple of top prospects who we are going to feel real good about (I'm talking Meadows/Keller ... or Frazier/Mateo/Rutherford). If posters don't accept that Jose Quintana is EASILY the best starter available this offseason, then we're not talking the same language. For once, we're holding the cards. You play it hard; you play it strong; you extract maximum value. Rick Hahn has had a masterful offseason to date -- a strong Sale deal, followed by a near brilliant Eaton deal. I see it as a good sign that our own posters are getting antsy. There's a good chance the same is happening with many of our potential trading partners, whether the known suspects like the Astros, Pirates, Yanks, Braves, and Rangers, or with some other potential partners who are feigning disinterest, but are ready to swoop in at the last minute to avoid bidding against themselves (I'm thinking Rockies, Dodgers, and maybe even Red Sox / Nats here). It's only the middle of January. Why in the world should be worrying NOW that Hahn is "overplaying" his hand and needs to ratchet down his demands? Why in the world would he do that now? Instead, it's exactly the time where a frustrated potential partner may have his Tom Cruise in Risky Business moment -- sometimes, you just gotta say "what the f*ck," and maybe we have a third great deal in this offseason. If we're May/June and Q is still here and we start hearing about teams starting to auction off TOR-type pitchers to the 2017 crop of contenders, then hit me with all of the Hahn overplayed his hand arguments. But we're a long way from then. In fact, for the next couple of weeks we're arguably exactly at the time when our suddenly astute (or perhaps, suddenly "freed") GM can generate max value. Can I quote you? There is no rush here. There is only impatience. You are spot-on!

Brian, Rob ... Outstanding, guys. Substantively, the two of you delivered the goods -- lots of well-researched material, keen insights, and informed speculation. Serious listening for serious fans. As entertainment, professional, polished, and entertaining. Wayne's World is a great comedy, but I don't want that as part of a podcast in my areas of interest. Nothing of the sort with this one. Thanks for your efforts, hard-work, professionalism, and expertise. I listened via the Pocket Casts app (highly recommended) and I'll be checking in for new episodes as they become available. Now let's kick the Yankees, Pirates, and Rockies into action so we can have Quintana trade talk on the next podcast!

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 26, 2016 -> 04:38 PM) No, no, no. For an increasing number of folks, reading your posts is an absolute pleasure. Please error on the long-winded side of the fence, if ever in any doubt. Reading here is a guilty pleasure, but I usually prefer to hear voices other than mine. And then there's that darn "lacking time" problem. The long-windedness is often explained by the famous Twain quote: "I apologize for the length of this letter. If I had MORE time it would have been SHORTER." Back to Hahn and Q, I'm very confident that Hahn will get a deal done for Q that is in the same general ballpark with the Sale an Eaton deals. If you're going to tear it down and build it back up, it's imperative that you get the funding (a considerable quantity of high-quality prospects that accounts for the inevitable busts) to give that build-up a fighting chance. Love hearing about ceilings for one prospect or another, but, please, assigning WAR to a ceiling and then acting as if that number compares one-to-one with a known consistently excellent big leaguer's number? Voodoo economics there. I'm particularly excited with the chance of using Robertson and Jones intelligently through the ASB and getting strong value for them at the deadline. I'm sure within the nerve center, they've discussed doing that and filling their roles late season with some combination of Fuller, Burdi, and, just maybe, Kopech. Let those young guys start for the first 3 months, then limit their innings by bringing them up for relief roles here, but getting the benefit of learning at the big team level. Won't be a great W/L year for the Sox, but it won't be lacking in interest. Not at all.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 26, 2016 -> 04:24 PM) I disagree. I understand your point, but we are still the one moving the established piece. While the increased understanding of the value of prospects has made blue chippers more difficult to acquire than ever, I think our demands are reasonable. We can't come out slightly ahead or even IF things work out in the best way possible. We need to come out WELL AHEAD if things break in the best way possible - because the odds are that they won't. I don't understand why the Sale deal is so incredibly lopsided in our favor. Sure, show me up ... make my points in far fewer words!

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 26, 2016 -> 04:07 PM) Its worth taking a bit less of a price than TOTAL FLEECING and just dealing Quintana now to avoid being burned by the ever-present threats (even in the case of Mr Consistent himself) of ineffectiveness or injury. Could you imagine if Q busts his shoulder in May for a terrible Sox team and getting basically nothing in return for him? This isn't an argument to give him away, but it is an argument to be a little more flexible on the asking price. Agree to disagree here. First, I don't buy the premise that Hahn fleeced Rizzo (that got a lot of play from our biased buddies out East) or, to a lesser extent, Dombrowski. Instead, Hahn showed admirable discipline, valued some incredibly valuable assets appropriately, and didn't chase. Create something akin to an auction and somebody will pay the reasonable, albeit stiff, price. Hahn wasn't trading stiffs; he was trading star or near star current big leaguers with near unheard of $/control/WAR analytics. Just because many in the industry have become prospect over-huggers, doesn't mean that Hahn shouldn't extract reasonable value from teams with surplus to trade for Hahn's surplus to trade back in return. With Q, keep fighting the good fight, Rick. Someone will pay an appropriately reasonable price for that incredible top 20 starter (at least) pitcher otherwise known as Q. Don't chase. Don't telegraph. Don't be KW. And absolutely absurd to even entertain the notion that Qs contract is a negative for the Pirates. It's an absolute -- Q's contract is valuable for ANY team. Just because Huntington and gang boxed themselves into a corner by coming for Q before dealing McCutcheon (and I'm not sure that's honest anyway -- it's also a likely ploy to back the Sox off of a Meadows demand) and signing the immortal Daniel Hudson and Ivan (the not terrible, but not so great) Nova, doesn't mean the Sox need to cut the Pirates a special break. Or any break. Q's outrageous value is in part related to his fantastic contract. If the Pirates can't pay for that, then the Pirates don't play. It really isn't that complicated. I recognize that Hahn can overplay his strong hand, but I think we're far, far from that point in December 2016.