chisoxfan09

Knight, that is one of the main points of this thread if not the major one. I believe we should look for the high end (Ace or not but at least a number 2 caliber) right SP to eve out the rotation. I think a balance is important but would have to do the stats game to back it up (How many lefties have we faced or pitched againsts, the batting avg, etc). I like balance.

Zoom, an interesting part of your quote centers on the fact (I am guilty as the next fan of this thinking) that we all believe Coop with his magic touch is going to tweak or fix every pitching defect these players come with. Just not realistic.

A little off topic but I gotta believe if we shop Dye we are bound to ask for a decent haul back. He projects to have 40HR/100RBI numbers this year and still has the 12 million option for next year which could be considered not terribly expensive for a great clubhouse guy, decent defrense, and the offense. My opinion only.

Jordan, Bailey has had extremely disappointing MLB numbers. I wonder if we can get him cheap because of that but I doubt the would fit the mold of Ace type starter. Also he is only listed with 2 starts this year so he was hurt and on the DL for an extended period of time. His K/BB rate is horrible and his ERA is also sky high!! He looks like a big risk as a reclamation project for Coop. Not sure even if he is worth Dye straight up.

Stan, here is a quick link from MLB Trade rumors with age (Only right handed Aces (Majority are) that jump out at me are Beckett (Club option), Lackey, Lee (lefty but with club option), Brandon Webb (Done for season but with 2010 club option and huge risk now): http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/2010-mlb-free-a.html Starting pitchers Brandon Backe (32) Miguel Batista (39) Josh Beckett (30) - $12MM club option with a $2MM buyout Erik Bedard (31) Kris Benson (34) Daniel Cabrera (29) Chris Capuano (31) Bartolo Colon (37) Jose Contreras (38) Doug Davis (34) Justin Duchscherer (32) Adam Eaton (32) Shawn Estes (37) Josh Fogg (33) Freddy Garcia (34) Jon Garland (30) - $10MM mutual option with $2.5MM or $1MM buyout Tom Glavine (44) Mike Hampton (37) Rich Harden (28) Mark Hendrickson (36) Livan Hernandez (35) Tim Hudson (34) - $12MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout Jason Jennings (31) Jason Johnson (36) Randy Johnson (46) John Lackey (31) Cliff Lee (31) - $8MM club option with a $1MM buyout Braden Looper (35) - option Rodrigo Lopez (34) Jason Marquis (31) Kevin Millwood (35) - Rangers can decline $12MM salary for '10 unless he reaches 180 innings in '09 Brian Moehler (38) - mutual option Brett Myers (29) Vicente Padilla (32) - $12MM club option with a $1.75MM buyout Chan Ho Park (37) John Parrish (32) Carl Pavano (34) Brad Penny (32) Odalis Perez (33) Andy Pettitte (38) Joel Pineiro (31) Sidney Ponson (33) Mark Prior (28) Horacio Ramirez (30) Jason Schmidt (37) John Smoltz (43) Tim Wakefield (43) - perpetual $4MM club option Jarrod Washburn (35) Brandon Webb (31) - $8.5MM club option with a $500K+ buyout Todd Wellemeyer (31) Kip Wells (33) Randy Wolf (33)

Yeah I know we would welcome him in a heartbeat. I kinda believe that KW went for broke with Peavy with the thought that if we had at least 4 legit starters (2 lefty/2 righty) the 5th spot would work itself out. Man was that really ever good timing that Peavy invoked the no-trade. That whole series of events lead me to believe that KW does really want an Ace type righty front liner. Problem is as many have pointed out no way other teams are gonna part with their Ace (the few that have them) and accept the same packages Towers did for SD. Gonna take at least one more MLB ready propsect to really entice a team to think about it. But the number of Aces that are tradeable are next to nothing. All of this posts are kinda inter-related but trying to stay focused on that righty front line starter.

Stan, what do you think would be our chances to engage SF for Matt Cain? They want a power bat and JD does fit that bill to a tee plus maybe 1-2 prospects. Dunno just throwing it out there as it relates to the thread.

It would probably be more advantageous long term to have a complete arsenal of pitches with good commannd along with a mid 90's fastball. If that is going to tbe the case (I just looked at his K/BB rate and it is good) along with his WHIP then maybe he really does have a good future. 2010 seems to early fr me with Hudson although maybe a mid season call up. What I do see is a ST invite and then AAA if he does really well with BHam (Although this is my own pure speculation). :-)

Chisoxfn, is Hudson on the same fast track as Poreda was? Or are his circumstances a little bit different? JPN does Hudson have a better arsenal of 3-4 pitches as oppsoed to Poreda who is continuing to improve/develop his secondary pitches with Coop?

I don't see Garcia long term with the White Sox. I think he may stay one year at best and as a spot starter. I don't believe his stuff will be back.

I wonder if Matt Cain is even a remote possiblity? He also can be counted on to be a potantial Ace. The Giants are not in selling mode but with KW you can never be sure what will happen. I saw quite a few rumors linking Cain to the White Sox this past offseason. I wouldn't mind KW exploring the potential cost of landing an Ace via FA as it would be easier and not as big a hit on the farm system. But given Reinsdorf's and KW's history they are not believers in doling out multi year contracts with huge salaries to Ace type SP's. Buerhle has been the exception to extend well because he is Buerhle and the face of the franchise so to speak.

RME, I don't disagree with you but I think either a combo of 3-2 left/righty of vice versa gives the opposition more to think about and it balances out the lineups we will face with a righty/lefty mix. Out of Poreda/Richard I only see Poreda with the stuff or potential to be Ace or strong number 2. Richard I peg for more of a strong backend starter or long relief/spot starter. Another righty who will be in his option year is Beckett but man no way the Red Sox let him go. Maybe trade material? he has been lights out now the last 3-4 starts. We can dream.

I was looking at the current rotation this weekend and debating whether or not we are rebuilding, buying or selling, etc. But the more I looked at it the more I am convinced that the starting 5 rotation does not need too much tinkering but it would be nice to add either an Ace No 1 right handed pitcher or a very strong number 2. I posted previously in another thread the possiblities of looking at trades but the potential candidates are going to cost a ton of the few RH SP that are out and are tradable. I spoke about Brandon Webb but now he is out for the year. See my point for this post is this, we have 3 very and seemingly capable lefties in the mix and the rotation is stacked on the lefty side (Buerhle, Danks, Poerda, Richard) who are currently on the 25 man roster. The only true righty that is decent with experience is Gavin Floyd but I don't see him as an Ace or strong 2 but rather as a very nice middle rotation (No 3 or 4) SP. So the thinking is if we get a true Ace this winter to balance out the lefty side then man we are set for at least 3 more years as all our starters are under control for at least that long (End of 2012). Only Free Agent I see out there at the moment who make be available albeit with injury concern just coming off of shoulder surgery I think is Ben Sheets. When he is on his game he is a legit No 1 or Ace. SO this is the potential rotation for next year: 1. Ace Righty via trade or Free Agency (Who????) 2. Buerhle (Lefty) 3. Floyd (Righty) 4. Danks (Lefty) 5. Poreda/Richard (Lefty) Nice situation to have and we do have a couple of good righty prospects in the mix but they meay not be ready until 2011) - Hudson/Ely ** Sorry forgot to add Shirek as another strong righty candidate ** Any thoughts on this strategy for next year? Our SP may not actually be an area of weakness depending on what KW does before the trade deadline or in the winter.

Yeah I am kinda waiting for JPN to let us know his view on Poreada's performance so far in the bigs VS. BHam. And a good indicator or actually stat in Poreda's favor is that he has done well at the Cell so far which is a friendly hitter's park. NOt many appearances grant it but so far so good. If he gets 3 really solid pitches man I am gonna be ecstatic. He did pretty well last night against the best team in the bigs to date but maybe that is not as great sounding as it appears. Dunno but to me it is great!!!

Kind of strange as it looks like we have not really gained ground on the Tigers. That last homestand man was oh so frustrating. We should have swept Oakland and taken the other two series!! :-(

Howdi all, glad the site is back and yes it is a vice we needed and missed. I also hit refresh quite few times. Glad to see it back. Poreda has looked really good with control and pitch placement in his first 2-3 relief appearances capped by his first win last night. His fastball last night was consistent low 90's but I did not see him rearing back for something extra. His first strike out last was actually on what appeared to be a down and in slider or off speed (Experts please correct me). It had good movement and really fooled the batter. I think the development of his secondary pitches may be one of the main reasons they brought him up (To work with Coop essentially). But from what I have seen in 4.2 innings of work (6K's/1 BB) the ration is good so far. I think he has a future but not sure if whether as a reliever or starter. I think he will eventually have better stuff than Richard and more velocity and movement on the fastball. What sayeth my fellow fans?

Quick note on the Dan Haren bounty Oakland got. Only 1 player from the package of 6 is in the bigs and that is Brett Anderson and he is 3-7 with a 5.74 ERA. Two others were shipped to Colorado in the Holliday trade late last year. Just goes to show you it can also be seller beware as it looks like Arizona got the better part of this deal with Haren. The majority of prospects in trades don't pan out.

Flash, thanx for your reply. I just can't get nowadays with 1 good year with maybe 15-18 wins and now the guy is at Sabathia's talent level or earning potential. Man the agents are getting as bad as the media that allow them to overhype their players. I really like free agency for what it was intended to do but this guy is chachingin the cash register 2.5 years before Johnson even gets there, and that's without knowing what kind of season he will finish with in 2009 let alone 2010/2011. Plus what you said that his elbow may fall off.

I meant I was not convinced they would not follow that line. Anyway the agent can shoot his mouth off all he wants as the arb years are strictly between the team and the player. Only goes to mediation if the two parties cannot agree. Wonder what the precedents are for a good SP of his caliber. Have not followed the arb rulings but would be curious to know what he stands to earn. Somebody said 9-10 million but in a comparable way with Ryan Howards payoff (I know the Phils offered 14 and he wanted 18 but cannot find the settlement figure) it may be over 10.

Always curious and funny how each team extremely over value their players. Wonder how hard the Redsox fans would laugh at us proposing a Feilds for Buchholz swap plus one other prospect cuz each one may need a "Change of Scenery"?

Sonix, that was part of my reasoning (They picked up 6 prospects for Willis/Cabrera). But the agent is forecasting a Sabathia payday for 2012 when they open the stadium. He is a health risk as a previous TJS pitcher. You say they are not the Marlins of 1998 but as noted they have traded away their best players to avoid huge paydays. I am convinced that present ownership won't continue to follow that line. The Yankees were pretty adamant not to trade away either Phil Hughes, Joba Chamberlain, Melky Cabrera, etc (as an example of a team with a solid farm and a ton of $$$). But they may be tempted to chase Johnson after 2011 if not sooner. Just can't imagine the Fish paying massive arb bucks in the coming 2 years. I could and might be wrong.

DBAHO, good point. He should be rakin at the Cell in the warmer weather now and the fact that it is a hitter's park.

Good point chw42. Liriano has not been the same at all since his surgery. Neither was Kerry Wood to be honest. He had a couple of ok seasons for the Cubs but was never the same. But you know what the Yankees may already be drooling over this kid and may want to trade for him or wait until he is a FA. Just can't see the Fish paying him more than (Dunno really) 4-6 million next year if he goes 18-6 for example. Heck the Cubs gave Dempster a 4 year 52 million dollar contract after only 1 good year. He did really well as their closer for 3 years (2005-2007) before switching over. That is not really a precedent but it is similar to the one year wonder that Johnson is being portrayed as.

Hey all, been pokin around looking at power righties who would rock pitching for us at the Cell and on the road. I came across Josh Johnson from the Fish who is dominating. He has a huge fastball (He can bring it at 97-99 from the video I saw on MLB.COM) and a nasty biting slider (really dips down and away to right handed hitters and he can bring that up to 89-90!! The point of this post is twofold: 1. Albeit the Fish have a huge track record for trading away their best MLB players once they are about to hit Free Agency or Arbitration (Dontrelle Willis, Miguel Cabreara, Josh Beckett to name a few) Josh Johnson had Tommy John surgery in 2007 and missed most of 07 and half of 08. I admit he has been lights out since then (15-2) and I will put up peripheral stats if anyone wants them. Would it not be very risky to ask for this kind of payday so early? The link below states in the article that Johnson is getting to the point (will come pretty soon) that the Fish will have to seriously consider trading him (May not be until next year when his 2nd and infinitely more expensive arb year kicks in). He signed last Dec for 1.4 million which is an absolute bargain. So just supposed the Fish cannot agree on an arbitration figure and their management (Very likely with next arb hearing and the Fish's history) panick and decide it is time to ship him. Would it not be worth KW at least exploring a trade for him or working a deal much like Santana did with the Mets once he was traded (Not sure if you can do that with contracts that are in the middle of arb). I know the team can buy out the arb years so I was wondering what kind of payday Johnson would want if he had a Cy Young type year which he is having (7-1, 2.66 ERA). 10-12 million for his 2010/2011 contract years? 2. Doesn't it seem that his agent Matt Sosnick is grandstanding a bit too early? He only really has had one decent year out of 4 pro year and that was his rookie year 2006 when he was 12-7? I mean he has not even compiled one great year yet and this dude already wants a Sabathia type payday. And he is playing this in the media cuz he know the Fish are in a bind when they have starters (Pitching or otherwise) that have 1-2 good years and are ready for arb or free agency. I would certainly expect Scott Boras to use his clown antics in the media but this guy? This whole asking for the world without even having proved yourself for 2-3 years is getting out of hand. But I bet he is (as the article highlights) already showcasing his player to the Yankees. It is always about money with them. http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/baseball...ry/1108059.html Just worried because Johnson has had Tommy John surgery. Anyone agree?

Did any Cincy fans talk about last year's Dye rumors?