Loaiza21

If we give Mags, I want Nomar.

I think Jackson could be great for us next year, good pickup. Benard? Why Benard?

Can Belle even walk anymore?

But we lost Daubach! DAUBACH!

Don't diss Cora. He was one of my favorites, same with Oz.

I think it will. With that many people competing for one spot, there's gotta be a good vibe go through the camp. I mean there are going to be some great battles I'm looking forward to. I'm kind of pulling for Grilli as our #5. He was the fourth overall pick in 97? That sounds great, he did well last year in the minors too.

Yeah, look how fat Barkley got, I sure hope Frank doesn't come in at 350 pounds.

This had me feelin good, looks like we have a little fire going into camp for once. Maybe we got some chemistry in this team.... ________________________________________________________________ White Sox's Cooper hoping a couple of bright 'spots' emerge Sunday, January 18, 2004 By Joe Cowley Staff writer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "On paper," the White Sox were supposed to win the American League Central Division in 2002 and 2003. They fell short both years. "On paper," the Sox are considered one of the biggest disappointments in the major leagues this offseason, as far as player movement is concerned. They've lost key free agents such as ace right-hander Bartolo Colon and All-Stars Robbie Alomar and Carl Everett, without adding any marquee names. Frankly, Sox pitching coach Don Cooper is tired of seeing his team evaluated "on paper." "That's our first goal — to win the division," Cooper said. "The last two years, 'on paper' we were supposed to be good. We were supposed to win the division. Now we're being counted out. Our starting pitching staff is supposed to have taken a big blow with Bartolo leaving, but to be honest with you, I'm not worried about who is not here anymore." Maybe it's because Cooper is an eternal optimist. Or maybe it's as simple as glancing around the rest of the division. As far as 1-through-3 starting pitchers go, the Sox trio of Esteban Loaiza, Mark Buehrle and Jon Garland is as good as any in the Central — on paper. That trio combined for a division-best 47 wins last season — thanks in large part to Loaiza's 21-9 storybook year (Buehrle was 14-14; Garland 12-13). The trio closest to that victory total was Minnesota's Brad Radke (14-10), Johan Santana (12-3) and Kyle Lohse (14-11), who combined for 40 wins. It's the Nos. 4 and 5 pitchers that have the Sox concerned, however. The AL Central could be decided by which team gets the most production from its fourth and fifth starters. And if that is indeed the deciding factor, the Sox could be looking at a third-place finish at best. Minnesota will have Rick Helling (90-78 career record) as its No. 4, while youngsters Grant Balfour and J.D. Durbin will battle for the fifth spot. Kansas City has a stockpile of arms to choose from, with Kevin Appier (8-9 in 2003), Miguel Asencio (2-1), Chris George (9-6), Kyle Snyder (1-6) and Jimmy Gobble (4-5) all in the mix for the final two spots. For now, lefty reliever Scott Schoeneweis is the leading candidate for the No. 4 spot in the Sox rotation. The hope is that the middle reliever can make the adjustment to a starting role, which he had with Anaheim two years ago. As far as the No. 5 spot, it's there for the taking. "I expect a very competitive camp this spring," general manager Ken Williams said. "There are some positions that are up for grabs and we'll find out who wants them. This might be as competitive a spring training as we've had in quite some time." The list of candidates for that final spot in the rotation include recently signed veteran Robert Person, and youngsters Jon Rauch, Felix Diaz, Neal Cotts and Josh Stewart. Person, 34, is an intriguing case. He has pitched in just seven games since July 2002, when he had season-ending shoulder surgery. But he went 15-7 in 2001 with Philadelphia, and has a career record of 51-42 with a 4.64 ERA. He was 0-0 with a 7.71 ERA in seven relief appearances for Boston last season before going on the disabled list with an inflamed right hip. Person agreed to a minor league contract, and would be guaranteed $750,000 if he is added to the Sox's 40-man roster. Former Sox starter Danny Wright also will get a look, but the organization is leaning toward him being a reliever. "I'm not only looking for people to step up, but to step in," Cooper said of his starting staff. "I already told 'Esty' (Loaiza) that this year will be even tougher for him because the bar has been raised and he has to prove to people that he can do it for two straight seasons. "A guy like Garland has to step up. Schoeneweis has to step in. We're a different looking staff in a sense and we can't have any slip-ups. We not only have to be efficient, but we have to be capable of being efficient from start to start." And then there's one other pitcher Cooper is eager to see compete for the fifth spot. Jason Grilli, whom the Sox selected in the recent Rule 5 draft, is a right-hander who could turn some heads once camp begins. The 6-foot-4, 180-pounder went 10-4 with a 3.05 ERA in 19 combined starts last season between Class A Jupiter and Triple A in the Florida Marlins organization. Grilli was originally selected by San Francisco in the first round (4th overall) of the 1997 draft before being traded by the Giants with pitcher Nate Bump to the Marlins in return for pitcher Livian Hernandez on July 24, 1999. He has battled injuries throughout his career, but he assured Cooper in a recent phone conversation that he's healthy and ready to go. "I'm easily psyched up, but this kid had me really pumped up on the phone," Cooper said. "He's a very passionate kid. He said that he's had injury problems in the past, but he feels great now and is ready to contribute. I can't wait to get a look-see at him. "I want him to step up and say, 'Hey, you have to start me.' He just sounds real hungry to me and that's what we need." Cooper thinks hunger might have been lacking the last two years on Sox teams that were more talented — on paper — than the team that will enter camp in Tucson, Ariz., next month. "Maybe being overlooked is what we need now," he said. "I've talked to almost all of our pitchers at some point this offseason, and what I asked them was to come into camp in the best physical shape of their life. "The boys are getting that itch. It's right around the corner and they can feel it. And the good thing is that it wasn't just me calling them, there were guys calling me to talk about things. That makes me even more anxious to get into camp and get this thing started."

This is from WSI, but it's believeable. Just to add to the chaos I also heard that JR could be preparing for contraction so he can pocket $250 Million, sad but possibly true. I'd burn down Reinsdorf's house if the White Sox were giving up and contracting a 100+ year old franchise. I'm sure you'd all be with me... Here is the post: ____________________________________________________________ Whats up everyone. I heard something interesting the other day. I kind of knew it all along but wasn't exactly sure. At this point however I am pretty sure though. I was speaking to another die hard Sox fan and he was telling me all about the organization and its problems. He said he did some research into this and that he was damn sure of what he was talking about. What he said was that the only reason why the Sox payroll is only 60 or so million was because ownership is just plain cheap. He said that just from TV deals alone, Reinsdork and his co-owners could pay the salary. Then all of the other money they bring in, i.e. ticket sales, food sales, merchandise, is just extra for them to stick into their pockets. Plain and simple. Reinsdork may care about baseball, but the other investors do not really give a damn. They are screwed businessmen who only want more and more money. Another way that they reap in even more money is by the low attendance. Believe it or not, if the Sox do not get a certain amount of fans a year, they do not have to pay rent for U.S. Cellular field. Rent is a huge amount to pay and if they don't have to pay it, the more money they get. So the only assumption is that they are teetering along the brink of that attendance figure. If they actually put a winner on the field, the increase of attendance would put that figure over the top. Sad but true. If the people that own a team only care about the money aspect of ownership, then the fans and team suffers. This is the case with the Sox. But there is something that may make you people happy. I mentioned to this fan that it would be a miracle for someone like Donald Trump to buy the team. What he said in return made me smile. Donald Trump has expressed interest to own a sports team from Chicago, preferably a baseball team. So that would either be the Scrubs or the Sox. He also hates Georgie boy over in New York. That would make him lean toward the Sox because they are natural American League rivals. So who knows? Maybe one day Trump will own the Sox and we could have a payroll of close to 200 million bucks. Wouldn't that be nice. But in the meantime keep on being White Sox fans. I know that I will because no matter what, the players want to win. And as long as that desire is there, they could possibly go far. P.S. My source is a highly respected retired Chicago Police Officer who really does know what he is talking about.

Great. Good to see he's still adding "natural" muscle.

I like the idea of the contract the Sox gave Robert Person "White Sox signed RHP Robert Person to a minor league contract and invited him to spring training. He's not going to go Esteban Loaiza on the league, but Person is a nice pickup. Before hurting his shoulder in 2002, the right-hander struck out 474 batters in 518 2/3 IP during his first three years with the Phillies. The White Sox have given him a similar deal to the one they gave Loaiza a year ago. If Person makes the team, he'll get a one-year, $750,000 contract that includes a $2.5 million option for 2005. He's expected to battle Dan Wright, Jon Rauch and Neal Cotts for one rotation spot. " Maybe the option will give him something to work for? You never know, when you get these players fighting for their career, good things happy, like with Loaiza. Or possibly Cal Eldred. I think he's more like Eldred because of the injury prone career.

I dunno, seems like we're picking out cheap guys who are having good seasons in winter ball. Can't be a bad thing.

Amen. That's what I believe too.

We should just deem Marte closer. That'd be the right thing to do. I don't care if he blew 7 saves.

I'd like to see Person have an ELo year. That'd be awesome.

Which would make sense, why would we get Nixon, Williamson, and Nomar?

Person's pre 2003 scouting from ESPN.com "Pitching Person is a straight-ahead, power pitcher who is learning to pitch relatively late in life. His fastball reaches the mid-90s, and his arsenal also includes a sharp slider, splitter, curveball and changeup. He held hitters to a .234 average last season, displaying the best command of his career. When Person places his fastball well early in the count, his slider and splitter can emerge as additional strikeout pitches. He is an extreme flyball pitcher whose mistakes often leave the park. He maintains his velocity deep into games and held opponents to a .125 average after the 105th pitch last season. " Sound familiar? Reminds me of Baldwin.

So far we've signed: Jose Santiago, Mike Jackson, Cliff Politte, and Robert Person. Santiago had good 2003 stats, and if he comes near them in 2004, I say it's a success. Mike Jackson has been a dominant RP his whole career. Has age affected him yet? No it hasn't. It depends on how well he will do this season. If he has a sub 4.00 ERA, it's a success. Politte was a feature setup in the past and throws the ball hard, he'll likely benefit from the AL Central. I think this one will work out. Robert Person? This guy has alot to prove. I don't know much about him, but I don't think he'll be another Loaiza.

Good move, he's a solid RP.

Start printing the playoff tickets! Honestly, why not give this guy a shot?

He's going to start.

Damn! I wanted to meet Politte!

Wow these are getting boring... ------------------------------------- White Sox watch pitching staff take hit in offseason defections By Phil Rogers - Chicago Tribune Sunday, January 11, 2004 Chicago — When the Chicago White Sox said their farewells at the end of September, they controlled pitchers who had combined for 91 victories in 2003. Look at them now. advertisement Having failed to replace Bartolo Colon, Tom Gordon and Scott Sullivan with proven options, the Sox are down to 62 victories among the pitchers scheduled to begin spring training in a month. Unless Ken Williams stops spinning his tires and finds a way to pull off a trade or significant signing -- and Greg Maddux, Sidney Ponson and Kenny Rogers are about the only reliable winners still unsigned -- the Sox are going to have to count on a comeback from Dan Wright while giving guys like Jon Rauch, Enemencio Pacheco and Francisco Campos a chance to win spots in the rotation. It's telling how badly the Sox's talent drain has been -- and how little they have done to address it compared to other teams. With pitchers who won only 62 games in 2003 under their control, the Sox rank below all but four American League teams -- Detroit (51), Texas (49), Cleveland (46) and Baltimore (30). Even Tampa Bay has built a staff with more victories (65). Kansas City outscored both the Sox and Minnesota last season but fell from first place in the AL Central because of a thin pitching staff. The Royals now appear deeper than the White Sox and Twins. The current Kansas City staff has pitchers coming off years in which they won 80 games; the Minnesota staff (minus Eddie Guardado, LaTroy Hawkins, Eric Milton and Kenny Rogers) is at 68.

VERY INTERESTING..... Talks have stopped for now but are not dead. There is a lot of posturing on both sides, which is normal for a trade of this magnitude. From what I am told, talks will continue on Thursday. This is what is known of the deal so far: 1. Magglio/ Valentine/prospect to Boston for Nomar/Williamson/another player. 2. Neither team has any intentions of making additional trades with these players or expanding to a three team trade. If made, Nomar will not be going to the Dodgers and Boston has no intentions of trading for Arod. 3. Reinsdorf is scheduled to meet with Arn Tellem (Nomar's agent) to gauge his interest in signing an extension with the WSox. This is a casual meeting with Boston's approval. Keep in mind that Tellem (agent of many former Bulls, Albert Belle) and JR have a great relationship. This is what is still pending: 1. The third Boston player. Red Sox want it to be Damon. White Sox want Nixon. There is even an alternate scenario of Byung Yung Kim. KW will take Damon if he can move Knoerko. Boston has no need or interset in PK. The prospect for Damon would be Cotts. Supposedly, Boston is holding out for Borchard if Nixon is the third player. KW does not want to include Borchard. BYK would cost the Sox Rauch. This is what I know so far. If it happens, expect it to take place near the end of the month

From baseball-reference.com it seems likely. This is some scale they use from the player's stats to determine if he will make the Hall of Fame. Black Ink: Batting - 21 (96) (Average HOFer ~ 27) Gray Ink: Batting - 189 (46) (Average HOFer ~ 144) HOF Standards: Batting - 53.5 (54) (Average HOFer ~ 50) HOF Monitor: Batting - 179.0 (48) (Likely HOFer > 100)