Thad Bosley

That surface just seems to be the worst, with all of that black junk that bounces up after the ball hits it.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 26, 2015 -> 06:49 PM) So was anyone other than me listening to Steve Stone's commentary on why the Blue Jays' efforts to "bring in" a team have failed, how you need to develop a team from the inside, how you need to have your catcher or your shortstop be the smartest guy on the team, use that to drive the development of starting pitching, and then fill in some gaps around that and think... "This sounds like Stone criticizing the White Sox in another form" ? He masked it by talking about a conversation he had with Cito Gaston about the Jays, but yes, it seemed like a commentary on the Sox front office approach to things.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 26, 2015 -> 06:25 PM) Hit a blast Jose CALL IT!!

QUOTE (harkness @ May 26, 2015 -> 06:19 PM) You guys thinking this other announcer is go good are just delusional for something different... I like how he said "We had two chances to get the runner to 3rd." Only get once chance for it to matter boss... Nice guy though The pairing reminds me of Stone and Chip Caray, another play-by-play guy short on knowing the nuances of the game. It gives Stone a chance to display his wealth of knowledge.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 26, 2015 -> 05:08 PM) I think the most shocking thing here is how many people are opening advocating for the team to move. After living through the true turn back the clock era, when the team was all but gone, it just blows my mind. Oh, come now. You're not still holding a...grudge...about Jerry Reinsdorf threatening to move the Sox to Tampa back in the day, are you!

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 26, 2015 -> 02:44 PM) All on the backs of one playoff run in 30 years, without a World Series Championship to show for it, which according to the repeated standards of years and years of winning in a row, falls woefully short. Falls woefully short of what? What are you talking about here? The point I made is Kansas City had a very exciting postseason last year and their fan base responded, hence the nice bump in attendance this year. They are poised to build upon that success and add to and solidify their fan base by making it to the playoffs again this year. They might not make it, and they may slip backwards like we did since we did not sustain our success after the WS run. But if they do make it and have another exciting run at things this fall, it will only help continue their success at the gate. And who knows? Maybe they are about to go on a nice three or four year run of sustained success like every other team in the AL Central team has done at one time or another since the advent of the division. Every other team, that is, except the White Sox. I know, I know - confounded bandwagon fans! They're to blame for all of this!!

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 26, 2015 -> 11:53 AM) You can spin it however you want to spin it, but winning games, being in first place, doesn't really help all that much. Getting to the WS where people will buy packages for WS tickets does. It's too bad it takes a WS for White Sox fans to enjoy baseball. Think about it, Thad Bosley said the White Sox have had only 1 exciting season the last 35. So 90+ win seasons aren't fun, winning divisions aren't fun. It's only the WS trophy that is fun. If that is how one thinks, it is time to move on. The Braves won 1 WS and made the playoffs 15 years in a row. 1 exciting season out of 15. Nooooo, now don't do that. Don't put words in my mouth. Thad Bosley has never once suggested that the only thing that equals "exciting" is winning the World Series. What I've said repeatedly is that what is exciting is not only getting to the playoffs, but getting there and playing competitively, and going as deep as you can. That IS exciting! It's exciting in any sport, and that's what fans react most positively towards. My point with the Sox is that the measly other four playoff appearances outside of '05 have been anything but exciting - four total wins between the four series. What a difference it felt in '05 just beating the Red Sox in the first series to anything we had experienced prior, either in '83, '93, or '00. It was on a completely different level. Our fans, experiencing all of that for the first time, loved it and craved for more the following season based on season tickets sold and overall attendance. The problem is the Sox didn't deliver. They didn't deliver in '06, certainly not in '07, made a decent go of it in '08 but were out of the playoffs all too quickly, and then everything since then has been a disaster.

My word! Would you look at those Kansas City Royals! Averaging nearly 32K this year after that splendid run they had through the postseason last year. Their average attendance last year was only 24K, reflective, of course, of the years and years of losing prior to last season. But lo and behold, it turns out that their fan base enjoyed all of the excitement that a solid postseason brings, and have signed up this season in hopes for more. Sounds like another fan base we know from 2006, doesn't it? And to add to the good news for fans of the Royals, their team seems well poised to do the unthinkable - make it to the playoffs in consecutive seasons! Now how about that! And if they do so, and give their fans another thrill, they will continue to build upon and expand their fan base. Yep, yep, yep - that's how it works. That's what a little winning will do for you!

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ May 26, 2015 -> 09:42 AM) There's a huge difference between winning a lot of games and being in first place for "most of the season" and being in first place on the last day of the season. The latter typically draws more fans in. Especially if it's done frequently in a short time period. You can nitpick on a specific number of consecutive post-season experiences all you want. I was just throwing out an example. There are lots of different ways to define success. It can be 2 years in a row. It can be 3 years in a row. It can be 3 times in 5 years. 5 times in 10 years. Something a lot of other teams in the league have done many, many times. If the Sox could manage any one of those scenarios I would bet that attendance would go up at least in the short term. But they never have. Actually, I just checked. The Sox are the only AL team that has never hit any of those scenarios. The Nationals, Marlins and Rockies are the only other teams that haven't either. Agreed. Excellent point of view!

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 25, 2015 -> 10:14 PM) It tells me the bandwagon empties very quickly, just like we saw after 2005. So why not let it replenish as quickly as possible? Let's let the bandwagon open far and wide! That's good for both you and me. That means the team we love and support is actually doing something of interest, which the 2015 brand, much like four of its most previous brands, has not. It also means we can pack our already-diminished ballpark to its diminished capacity. Why would you have a problem with that?

QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ May 25, 2015 -> 10:44 PM) ? That makes absolutely no sense. Lol - get used to that in "ss2k5" reasoning on this subject.

Stone putting Noesi's performance into pretty good perspective.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 25, 2015 -> 06:33 PM) Then explain 2009 and 2013 Oh, c'mon, Dick. You are one of the smartest posters on this site. This isn't that hard to understand. This team has been so unsuccessful for so long, they are going to need to not only get into the playoffs for a few seasons or so in a row, but also get deep into them and play some good and exciting baseball while there to get people excited about this team. That's where the team's record of futility has left this franchise. The 2008 team went out meekly and quickly against the Rays in '08, and didn't even make it to the playoffs in '12. Again, look at how the base reacted to the '05 team. Look at how the exciting playoff action that year translated into outstanding attendance the following year. We need a run of playoff action similar to that to build up our fan base. It can be done, as proven by the Tigers, Twins and Indians since the advent of the AL Central Division, and it's now looking like the Royals are getting in on the action. The White Sox, meanwhile, don't. That is the problem.

QUOTE (jeffro2525 @ May 25, 2015 -> 06:32 PM) I miss Hawk being pissy/downtrodden with me during a game like this. I know I'm in the extreme minority. +1

Despite the game's results thus far, Steve Stone has been particularly good tonight.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 25, 2015 -> 06:20 PM) There should be...but I will believe it when I see it. Last time we spent $115 million+ and won 63 games, the manager got a contract extension. And who granted that contract extension? Jerry Reinsdorf. The manager and coaches are just the symptoms, gents. The problem lies at the top.

QUOTE (DashFan @ May 25, 2015 -> 06:07 PM) I turned the game off. I'd rather have minor surgery than watch this team take another at bat. You and Hawk Harrelson both!

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ May 25, 2015 -> 06:00 PM) Jerry Reinsdorf is the reason. Loyalty trumps accountability/results.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 25, 2015 -> 05:13 PM) I have provided the obvious answers that you feel hurt feelings to acknowledge. I have 115 years of attendance and White Sox history to back me up, but you know, what is that really worth. Fans abandon the White Sox during all but the very best times. I don't see why that is such a painful thing for people to admit. All of the reasons you keep giving at why fans don't go to games do nothing but back that fact up. That is the very definition of a bandwagon fan base. If that isn't a bandwagon fanbase, I would love to hear what your definition of that actually is, and why the Sox fan base doesn't fit that criteria, because nothing you have said in all of your posts has said anything that doesn't reinforce every single thing I have been saying all along. The "very best of times" of which you speak have been very few and far between throughout those 115 years, which is the point I keep trying to make. When you cannot point to one instance during those 115 years where the team even once went to the post season in consecutive years, what does that tell you? It means achievement has been less than desirable, to say the least. You want attendance? Well you have to get it the 'ol fashioned way: you have to earn it.

QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ May 25, 2015 -> 04:34 PM) Your posts in this thread have been wonderfully insightful, and have helped me to crystallize my own thoughts on this topic. I'd just like to add another item about the Reinsdorf-owned Sox: Not only has the franchise not won enough, it doesn't believe in the value of building a minor league system. That is an organizational philosophy straight from the top; JR doesn't believe in making premium investments in prospects who haven't "proven" anything yet. So, we take the cheapest route possible in building our system. It isn't a coincidence that the only sustained period of success during the Reinsdorf era came from the efforts of the Himes regime. Instead, we rely on dumpster diving -- looking for bargain free agents and hoping they pan out. Usually, they don't; with 2005 being the glaring exception. Part of the way fans develop a passion for their teams is by following their minor league prospects as they develop. It gives the fans a greater sense of identification with the players as they roll through the system, and the bond with them is strong once they reach the majors. Of course, we have had relatively few prospects worth following the past decade. Many of those who have developed have been traded away. In sum, we don't believe in building from within, and we won't pay top prices for premier free agents. What is left is the steaming pile of mediocrity that is the JR Sox. Like I said in an earlier post, I can no longer support this franchise with this owner. It's difficult to say this, as I've loved the Sox with all my heart since 76. But the bottom line is that this is entertainment. This is not life and death; it's baseball. And if following this team makes me miserable because I fundamentally disagree with several key principles upon which it is run, the onus is on me to change my behavior. I certainly do not expect JR to change. I live in Dallas, and my son loves the Rangers. For years I've tried to steer him towards the Sox, but he finds their games "horrifyingly boring". He always has. Even though the Rangers suck, he'd rather watch them lose 10-7 than watch the Sox win. I'm learning to embrace his thought process, and enjoy the game of baseball with his team rather than worry about the perpetual incompetence of my own. Excellent points, Andy. I would say this to you: I cheered on and supported our White Sox before Reinsdorf and his 1981 self-proclaimed "first class organization" came to town. I have stayed with the team through the 35 years of his stewardship, despite my disappointment in both the on-the-field and off-the-field results during the great majority of this time. I will continue to do so for the remainder of his ownership and hope for the best, but not too terribly optimistic if history is to be my guide with this management team. And most importantly, I will cheer this team on in the post-Reinsdorf era, and I very much look forward to that point in time.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 25, 2015 -> 02:10 PM) I am glad you admitted you have said nothing of substance then, because it was a rephrasing of your post. LOL - there are more posters agreeing with me than you, if you haven't noticed. As for substance, I've provided fact after fact after fact that, of course, there is a correlation between winning and attendance, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. You, on the other hand, have provided absolutely nothing to this discussion, except unnecessary sarcasm and a poorly formed opinion of the fan base based on, what? Conjecture? Certainly nothing verifiable, whatever it is.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 25, 2015 -> 02:07 PM) Funny how your stance keeps softening the further along this goes. The opposite pf your post holds true as well. If this team and game has made you so incredibly miserable, move along. Why do you let it consume you? Apparently you are just fine being miserable, if you are still here, according to the standards you guys laid out for my side of things. Again, we'll see you when the bandwagon fills up again... until then, move along to the team that fills the empty spot you have. Absolute throw away comments.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 25, 2015 -> 12:41 PM) You are the one who says the White Sox have had 1 exciting season over the last 35, so postseason appearances that don't result in winning a WS would be considered total failure and an unexciting season. Yet you use postseason non WS win appearance as positives for other teams. What I have said repeatedly, in relation to why the organization continually has attendance problems, is that we don't win enough. What I've also said repeatedly is that winning is defined as making it to the postseason more often than we do, and then when we get there playing exciting and competitive baseball. I have never once said anything as absurd as we need to win the "trophy" every year, or that we should be in the playoffs every single year. That's ridiculous. But outside of 2005 which, of course, was off-the-charts amazing, in Reinsdorf's 34 other years as owner, there are but four measly playoff appearances and a combined four wins amongst them. So you tell me with that record over three and a half decades now, or even in particular the decade since '05, why anyone should be surprised that attendance is what it is. These attendance issues are a cumulative effect of the lack of achievement by this franchise. As I've said a million times now, we have a dormant fan base that will respond enthusiastically to a team that engages in exciting postseason play. They got a taste of what's that's like in '05, and you couldn't ask for better attendance the following season. But outside of '05, they have not been given that experience at all during our lifetimes. Most of the other franchises have delivered more exciting results to their fans, and the facts support that. For that, I think Mr. Reinsdorf and his management team deserve legitimate criticism. I also think, and this is just my opinion, but I also think the fortunes of this franchise will not change for the better until there is a new owner. It's been 35 years now.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 25, 2015 -> 09:13 AM) I think the bigger problem is that some people think a baseball ticket entitles them to way more then it actually does. Baseball is a sport. It is entertainment. It is a game. It isn't some sort of place for people to get an ego fulfillment because their team owes it to them, or some weird 21st century entitlement idea. The ideas about stomping and pouting and demanding the team do this and that because they owe it to you, the fans, is just silly. I don't know when that idea came into sports, but people need to get over it. These aren't gladiators. This isn't life and death on the line. The whole idea that staying away and quitting somehow makes you better than people who don't, because the team isn't delivering something it apparently owes to you to get you to show up is just mindblowing to me. Even worse is taking to the internet in an effort to get some sort of cyber pat on the back because you are all sad because the team hasn't won enough for you. Baseball is not an entitlement program. It doesn't owe you a regular championship as if you get a trophy just for signing up as a fan. If you need that to feel good about yourself, sign up for another team. Since Jerry Reinsdorf took over the club in 1981, of the other 25 non-expansion teams in existence since then, only four of those teams (Royals, Mariners, Brewers, & Nationals) have been to the postseason fewer times than the Sox. And of those four, one team, the Royals, have made a World Series appearance more often than the Sox. If this record of futility doesn't bother you, if you are fine buying a ticket and getting the kind of quality we just saw during this last home stand, and in 2014, 2013, 2011, all the way through most of Reinsdorf's 35 years at the helm, well then fine - have at it. Buy a full season ticket package and get out there to the park and cheer on the mediocrity. But please don't be so crass and condescending with your completely unnecessary "cyber pat" comments when some of us legitimately look at the record of achievement of the ball club and, on a fan message board, suggest it should be better.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 24, 2015 -> 11:03 AM) The way forward is quitting, at least according this thread. We'll see you all when the bandwagon fills up again. I look forward to the day when the bandwagon fills up again! Are you kidding me? That means we are WINNING once again. That is the goal, in case you've forgotten. Every team has it's bandwagon fans. Who the F cares as long as the team is winning. Geez, why is that so hard for you to understand!