Eminor3rd

Trading Quintana would be filling a hole via tearing open a new one. The reason I wouldn't trade Quintana for a bat upgrade, even if it was a slightly better overall player, is because Quintana comes with that incredible contract. If you move him, you just bought 20 starts from Scott Carroll/Hector Noesi on top of your bat upgrade that probably costs more money and comes with less control than Quintana in the first place.

QUOTE (harkness @ Jun 4, 2015 -> 10:19 AM) LaRoche is better than Abreu at first base? I've seen more of Abreu so maybe its not fair but I've seen Abreu make a bunch of great throws and great plays on bullets. I remember one or two bullets at LaRoche and they have went right through him. Not sure on the conclusion that LaRoche is better at first. I'm guessing this is a case of not seeing a representative sample, because Jose Abreu has made at least 4 terrible errors this year that I can think of off the top of my head.

Awesome article about the relative values of OBP vs. SLG depending upon roster construction: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/mark-trumbo...of-obp-and-slg/

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 4, 2015 -> 10:49 AM) Quintana was a 5 WAR pitcher last year and has a great contract. There is no reason to trade him.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 4, 2015 -> 08:09 AM) TBH, I'm willing to accept a dropoff in defense in exchange for not relegating Abreu to the DH role so early in his career I'm not sure how valuable that really is. Playing first base would help his WAR, sure, but I don't think it's helping the team, because the fact is that he's a bad defender that isn't likely to get noticeably better. I think we have a better chance to win this year with LaRoche in the field, and I don't see much reason to believe that won't hold true in the future too with whoever else we get after LaRoche.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 3, 2015 -> 05:27 PM) I think the idea that Rick Hahn has some completely different plan that is being stifled by everyone here is just silly. First of all, Rick Hahn cut his teeth with the White Sox. If anyone has an idea of how the front office of the White Sox is run, it is Rick. The guy has worked for this team for over a decade. He knows very clearly the organizational structure here, and he knows it infinitely better then any of us on Soxtalk. Second of all, Hahn had teams knocking on his door, trying to get him to interview with them. The Trib article about Rick's promotion stated that at least five different teams came after him at various points. Taking the assumption that Rick Hahn understood what he was getting into with the White Sox, and the fact that despite having many other teams after him, he turned them all down and waited for a promotion here, you can only make the reasoned point that even with the understanding of how the White Sox are run, he wanted to be here. Not only did he want to be here, he wanted to be here more than just about anywhere else. If he didn't, he would have either taken these other interviews, or waited out his contract to find a better organization. None of that actually happened. The only reasonable conclusion is that knowing his market for another job, and knowing how the Sox are run, he wanted to be here. Finally, knowing that both Kenny and Jerry had what ever level of input that was related to Rick in the promotional process, Rick Hahn was also fine with that. He also was accepting of whatever long term strategic plan that was related to him over the course of his time with the organization. When he accepted the promotion, he knew damned well his level of power, the approval process within the organization, and the long term plan for the franchise. Again, if he didn't like any of it, he wouldn't have taken the position. There are only two reasonable conclusions that can be had here. #1, Rick Hahn is totally on board with whatever plan was discussed along they way. #2 Rick Hahn is perfectly willing to accept whatever directives that Jerry and Kenny have put together for this team. Now what are the levels of input and freedom that Rick has? Who knows. Whatever it is, it is something that was established years ago, and involves upper management pretty intimately. To me is also obvious that upper management is OK with what Rick Hahn wants to do, and Rick Hahn is OK with what Kenny and Jerry want to do. If all three of them weren't OK with it, some combination of Rick and Kenny wouldn't be here. They almost have to be on the same page. None of these guys is functioning independent of the others, otherwise this set up would have never happened. No matter who is the "primary" thought guy here, this is a team effort. And this pretty much represents the extent of what we can infer about how the FO runs.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 3, 2015 -> 06:28 PM) and who was at fault?? We don't know. Some combination of fate and the collective that runs the White Sox. The good news is that it's only important to us if we insist on having a scapegoat to blame. It really doesn't matter at all. I understand why we, as fans, all WANT to have enough information and insight to make hiring/firing decisions for our favorite team, but the fact is that we just don't and we never will.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 3, 2015 -> 06:14 PM) So Rick Hahn blew a $30 million payroll increase and did so while knowingly leaving gaps that could easily screw over his team's chances of being competitive? Wow, Rick Hahn is even worse at this than I could have imagined. You are continually insisting that a team strategy needs to be ALL IN or TOTAL DISASTER with nothing in between. That just is not reality. Look around the league.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 4, 2015 -> 12:16 AM) I'm past that stage. I want him as everyday second baseman. I'm assuming Gillaspie can hit as well as he did last year. 2B is a black hole in the order unless Beckham is in that hole. I'd rather bench Gillaspie than Sanchez at this point. LaRoche/Sanchez/Ramirez/Beckham is actually a good defensive infield.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 3, 2015 -> 02:44 PM) i don't know. i feel like i am in a tennis match watching 2 very good players. this discussion a fantastic and i am totally afraid of jumping in. that was me clapping from the sidelines of that tennis game. no offense is intended at any. None is taken at all. I'm just saying that he's exaggerating for effect with that post, but he's not being accurate. There are many simpler explanations for failure that he is not considering.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jun 3, 2015 -> 03:29 PM) your summations is right on. i can't think a a plausible counter. Balta just said the ONLY possible explanations for the poor play of this team are radiation, disease, or bad coaching. LDF, you very much CAN think of a plausible counter.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 3, 2015 -> 03:22 PM) And when I read that..."the whole team is performing far off of their talent level"... I'm compelled to ask again, what force out there could influence an entire roster to perform below their standards? After 2 months it's not just random chance, that's nearly 2000 PAs. Either it's the water at the ballpark, something has gone terribly wrong with the plane and we're accidentally irradiating players during flights, or based on these comments the coaching staff should be in the crosshairs. Again I'm ok with that. It's not 2000 PA for each player, lol. Come on man. It's two months of a season where a team is playing 3 games below .500. If they stay at this level all year, then we need to re-evaluate a lot of things. But we're just not there yet.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 3, 2015 -> 02:12 PM) I just wanna highlight one...Jeff Samardzija's advanced stats have dramatically dropped off this season. His strikeout rate is the worst of his career. His ground ball rate is the worst of his career. His line drive rate is the worst of his career. Right now Jeff Samardzija is a lot closer to a 4.68 ERA pitcher than he is to being a top of the rotation pitcher. Adam Eaton is better than that and is slowly improving, but he doesn't have to be the player he was last year either. And yes, Melky's advanced stats suggest he's due for some improvement, but for a player whose steroid abuse was absolutely key in his switch from "non-tendered after being paid $3 million" to "quality player" I'll believe it when I see it. RE: Samardzija. Right but it's been ten starts. That's the point. RE: Melky. He has performed substantially worse than at any point in his career, even the low points. And he jsut put a 125 wRC+ last year, post-steroids. This is just not his true talent level, and it's far off. But he's just one example, most of the team is doing this.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 3, 2015 -> 02:02 PM) See here's the thing, when we're already losing 99, 89, and on pace for 87 games a year..."wow it would be terrible to lose 95 games a year" isn't scary at all. We're doing that. When I see that sequence of numbers, I see a terrible team, a 10 win improvement, and a number that I'm pleasantly surprised isn't much worse considering how bad the players have been. A little regression and we could see a 15-20 game swing over two seasons on top of an improving farm and still solid financial flexibility.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 3, 2015 -> 01:35 PM) There is 1 team in the AL more than 4.5 games out of the 2nd wild card. If every team currently within 4.5 games of the 2nd wild card thinks they're competitive, then there will literally be 4 teams in baseball selling to 26 other teams. That's pretty much exactly how it's been since the 2nd WC was implemented.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 3, 2015 -> 01:49 PM) Can I undo the mistakes that were done last offseason? Because otherwise I have to do this with no money. Since I can't do that and give this roster a chance to actually grow, clear out the garbage. Anyone who can be moved from this roster, I'm ok moving. Everyone other than Rodon. I mean that. Just start over. We're going to lose for several years anyway, we may as well do so while being cheap and while building up something that can compete in the future. We haven't even finished this LAST "start-over!" At some point, you have got to stay the course. Balta, it hasn't even been a HALF of a season yet. Melky Cabrera is not a 54 wRC+ hitter. Adam Eaton is not a 77 wRC+ hitter. Jeff Samardzija is not a 4.68 ERA pitcher. You haven't even given this roster a HALF SEASON and you're ready to clean the entire organization out.

I'm not sure we have a better option.

I've enjoyed it because he's actually acting like the PBP guy. He obviously doesn't know a ton about baseball, but the cadence of the broadcast feels much more natural. If nothing else, it's finally clicked with my why so many color guys have had trouble pairing with Hawk: because Hawk does both jobs himself, and the color guy has to figure out where to fit in awkwardly instead of being cued like the PBP normally does.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jun 3, 2015 -> 06:07 AM) The 2013 team was more Rick Hahn's than it wasn't. It wasn't like he came from another organization to inherit that mess. As Asst. General Manager, he had influence on every single individual comprising the roster that year. He also had an entire offseason beforehand to make changes to the roster, and he didn't, really, other than adding Keppinger. So I'd say he is as much to blame for that horrific '13 season as his predecessor. It seems a little far fetched to me to suggest that from 2002-2012, when Kenny was GM and Hahn was Asst. GM, that somehow Kenny was solely responsible for baseball decisions made to the team during that timeframe, and that subsequent to 2012, it has all just been "The Rick Hahn Show". I think Kenny's periodic interviews suggest rather strongly that he is still very influential on any baseball decisions made. So as far as I can tell, since 2002, the White Sox have essentially been run by the trio of Reinsdorf, Williams & Hahn, with only a change in titles for the latter two a few years ago, while maintaining a consensus view between the three in terms of strategy and decisions made throughout these past 13 years. Whichever name you want to assign to each era is fine, but there was a clear strategic shift that occurred beginning with the trade deadline in 2013, and the team is associating that with Rick Hahn's move to the primary executive role for day-to-day operations. I have no doubt that they're all involved, but the Sox have NOT conducted themselves the same way the past couple years. The most recent thread of action is the one we should be judging when considering the effect of Sox leadership currently.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 2, 2015 -> 06:57 PM) So fine, you think Rick Hahn did a great job. I'm totally ok with that, because if this team keeps this BS up and you think RH did a fine job, then you are indicting the manager and coaching staff and making the case for me for why they're the ones who need to go. I don't think we know that. I think it's definitely PLAUSIBLE that the coaching staff is not putting the players in a position to win, but I don't think any of us have any evidence to suggest it's the case. The players seem to like the coaches, reporters seem to think that the coaches are putting in a lot of effort, the reporters are indicating that the team is practicing plenty. Beyond that, what can we evaluate as fans? Why was Abreu awesome under these coaches last year, but just solid now? Why were Sale and Quintana the same way? How did our "legendary" pitching coaches turn Samardzija into crap when they turned crap into gold every year previous? And that's the issue. This board in general is quick to pin it on the coaches because they want to pin it on someone, but we have nothing to suggest that firing the coaches would actually fix the problem. It MIGHT, but Occam's Razor finds a different explanation that is simpler and more likely: the players are failing.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 2, 2015 -> 06:07 PM) If you want to play this game...we've increased our winning percentage by 0.18% this year and spent $30 million more than last year's payroll. Getting to .500 at this pace will require a payroll of $175 million. 1. Do you blame RH for Melky Cabrera's 52 wRC+? 2. Do you think Melky Cabrera will end the year with a 52 wRC+? The season isn't even halfway over. Nearly EVERY player has underperformed. What was RH going to do this offseason that was going to overcome Sale/Abreu/Quintana/Eaton underperforming? Do you honestly think that he should have seen what has happened so far coming from Samardzija and Cabrera? You can say the defense was never going to be good enough, but let's see what the team looks like when it actually IS doing what it's supposed to do before we conclude that it never had a prayer. THe GM can only do so much. RH went out and got a player who can hit, Melky Cabrera is the one that has to actually HIT. I'm going to ignore the payroll/winning percentage thing because you KNOW that's a ridiculous strawman. QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jun 2, 2015 -> 06:18 PM) Actually, that's not true. The 63 wins in '13 was a decrease from '12, when in his first offseason as GM after '12 his biggest addition/upgrade to the team was Jeff Keppinger. With nowhere really to go but up, yes, he did increase the winning % last year by getting the team up to a whopping 73 wins. And now we are trending slightly better than that so far this year, but we're in last place, so that uptick really doesn't mean a whole lot. So given Hahn has been a major part of the brain trust (such as it is) with Reinsdorf & Kenny over the past 13 years that has garnered all of two playoff appearances, I'm going to need to see a whole lot more than these slight upticks to have confidence he is the right guy to get us out of the baseball gutter. 2013 was NOT RH's team. It was holdover from the KW show. RH was "on the clock" beginning with the Peavy trade. That was his clean slate. Also, Thad, it's June 2nd. Let's wait until at LEAST September before we put a wrap on this season.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jun 2, 2015 -> 05:57 PM) 63 wins in '13. 73 wins last year. A last place team a third of the way through this season. I'm not sure how much more "bearable" I can take! It's worth noting that our winning percentage is actually currently better than last year's and also that every player has sucked and also that it's June 2nd. And we're THREE GAMES under .500. And we want to fire the GM. WHo has increased our winning percentage every season so far.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 2, 2015 -> 05:33 PM) May I please Avatar this? I certainly don't mind, but I didn't actually draw it -- I just googled "mob with pitchforks" and photoshopped (or Paint.NET'd) the two things together.

QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Jun 2, 2015 -> 03:18 PM) I am not a KW fan — frankly, I think he is a pompous and past his shelf life with this organization — but the scapegoating of him does get ridiculous. If it's not RV, it's KW or JR or DC or freaking Chris Rongey or something. I made a new logo:

QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Jun 2, 2015 -> 02:21 PM) Kenny is rick's boss. He sure an answer questions related to the makeup of the team. I love how everyone is so anti Kenny, but think nothing of theo epstien having Jed hoyer as GM in name only. This board just needs a scapegoat SO badly. Reality be damned.