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The loser of Santiago/Quintana for the fifth will most likely end up as the long man, because he would be the third lefty in the 'pen. I'd expect that role to be mopup/spot start but also LOOGY.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jan 16, 2013 -> 09:23 PM) He's a great backup and backup plan in case Flowers sucks. Now my question is why would an organization like the A's get rid of him? Well they just got John Jaso to split time with Norris: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/01/mari...th-nats-as.html

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 16, 2013 -> 08:31 PM) My choice for back-up catcher, George Kottaras, was DFA'd by the A's today Yeah that's almost TOO perfect. Rick better have already made that call.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jan 16, 2013 -> 07:06 PM) Does he still have a boner for Charlie Blackmon? Haha, you should ask him on Twitter

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 16, 2013 -> 07:00 PM) I mean, the people who actually have to write the articles and interpret the date that's forthcoming. Obviously, a computer can take someone like David Cook or CJ Retherford in AA and project major league totals for them...or Tyler Saladino, but it's pretty much a fruitless activity to give them much validity. Well, you have to understand Carson Cistulli. He's kind of obsessed with guys like Saladino, and he spends a lot of time bringing them to light and isn't exactly known for rigorous sabermetric truth (and he doesn't claim to be that kind of guy). I don't think he's saying that Saladino WILL be a good piece, I think he's just pointing out that Saladino would project to be useful, which is probably surprising and thus noteworthy, especially for a guy who likes to think about under-the-radar fringe guys.

He'll get hurt at some point, so his stamina should be fine.

QUOTE (bhawk99 @ Jan 15, 2013 -> 08:05 PM) Kenny made some questionable deals that didn't pan out and he also made some excellent deals that really improved the team. The point being Kenny had the cahones to do a deal. He was never content with the roster and he was always looking for a way to make the team on the field better. Dumping AJ and adding Keppinger is a wash at best. Will Danks be ready for opening day, who knows? Will Flowers hit his weight or will he continue to be a .205 hitter? Will Dunn not strike out 200 times? Will Tank stop swinging at pitches 6 inches outside the plate? Will Beckham hit like he actually belongs in the big leagues? Will Thornton not lose 10 games again? Will the Sox actually score runners from 3rd with less then 2 outs? I say we have alot of questions to answer to be considered serious contender to the always strong and improved Tigers. If Hahn adds some more talent we will have a fun summer but he has to prove to a lot of us that he is actually serious about winning this year, so far he has not !!! But how do you know he hasn't tried? What if other teams are outbidding him in terms of talent/salary? Do you want him to overpay? I don't. I want him to make deals that make sense. It isn't about being risky, it's about determining how you value players and making an exchange of talent or money where you don't pay more than you think a guy is worth.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jan 16, 2013 -> 09:27 AM) DeAza had a .760 OPS playing CF and will get $1.7M. Beckham had a .668 OPS playing 2B and will get $3.1M. That seem out of whack to anybody else? It's because it's De Aza's first raise.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Jan 16, 2013 -> 11:01 AM) Is Thornton going to be on this roster opening day? I seriously thought he would be gone this winter. Yeah, who knows. Doesn't look like a ton of opportunity left to move him. Also, I think they feel like they need his "veteran presence."

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 01:18 AM) Just wanna put my Justin Upton idea here in Pale Hose Talk for those who dont wander in to the Diamond Club...I think its pretty genius and I want it to be seen by the masses =p In reference to Upton using his NTC for a deal with the M's... Discuss here. The problem with that is that Taijuan Walker is SO SO much more valuable than Quintana/Santiago. It's not even close because of that.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jan 16, 2013 -> 10:14 AM) GOD BLESS IT! Haha, I'm sorry. I really am such a downer sometimes.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jan 16, 2013 -> 10:09 AM) Seems like ZiPs ends up making every player closer to league average than an average fan would expect. Indeed, this is probably true by design. I could be totally wrong, but I think the two main things that fuel it are (1) tons of player comps for development and aging curves, and (2) regression to the current league run environment.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jan 16, 2013 -> 10:08 AM) I don't know. I find it unlikely that we don't have a 30 HR hitter. I'd say it's as likely that we have 5 (PK, Dunn, Viciedo, Rios, Flowers?) as us having 0. Both being not very likely. I'd also be surprised if Sale with a mid 3 ERA is our only starter under 4. Peavy would be the obvious choice to be under 4, but it could be anyone. If we only get 29/77 from Dunn, 26/80 from PK, 18/70 from Rios...we're not looking good. Our success really does largely hinge on those guys though. Other than Rios, it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect better years from PK and Dunn, especially Dunn. Dayan should be better as well. 3B production will be up. They seem a bit optimistic about our bullpen, but they aren't weighted very heavily in an overall calculation anyway. Yeah, again, these always tend to be conservative on an individual player level, but accurate league-wide. So the right way to look at these is the mean of a range of outcomes, many of them very extreme -- and when you have older guys, there's a better chance they bust than when they are younger, so I think guys like Dunn/PK are dragged down by the very real possibility that they just die completely. Of course, Dunn is haunted more by his 2011, PK by his age. Same thing with Peavy, really. He's good but there's still a very real chance he gets hurt and gives us well below average production.

This stuff is very interesting to me, and I thought this might lend some context for the piecemeal discussions we've been having about how we feel about the 2013 roster to date. Keep in mind that ZiPS is one of the most conservative projection systems, but also one of the most accurate in terms of league-wide variance. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/2...cago-white-sox/ After seeing this, do you feel any better/worse about 2013?

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jan 15, 2013 -> 01:05 PM) You my friend are giving Mr. Hahn way too much credit for doing nothing at all. You are assuming he's making all these smart business decisions holding onto players he could trade, not clearing salary for players he'd like to sign, etc. But while it is bad to go out and actively make a mistake it is a whole lot worse to sit around with a bong in your hand waiting for that mistake to come find *you.* This is so, so, so wrong. This is so wrong. You really think it's better to make a bad move than to make no move at all? That's how guys like Juan Pierre end up making $12m/year in his mid-30's. Because teams decided it was "time to spend" rather than deciding on what was worth money. That's how the Marlins end up spending a bajillion dollars on one star and two solid regulars and still suck. Should we sign Kyle Lohse to a 4 year deal coming off his fluky career year because he's the best SP left on the market? There's definitely a good chance he'd make our rotation better next year.

Yeah guys Konerko is not good at defense. Frank was worse, yes, but the bats aren't even on the same planet. Frank had a 76 WAR career, Konerko is currently sitting at 30 WAR despite losing about 3 fewer wins due to defense -- and don't forget how much higher replacement-level offense was in Frank's era, especially at 1B/DH.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jan 11, 2013 -> 10:29 AM) I think the majority of this board would agree with you. Except to replace the word "sad" with "pissed". I wouldn't be sad. I'd be happy. Greinke is really good. Then you trade Floyd for prospects. Even if I thought it was an overpay, I'd be so pumped to watch him pitch for us next year.

I wouldn't mind this at all -- you have to assume it's a spring training invite to compete for a #5 job. We have a ton of depth at #5 but none of it is forcing it's way onto the mound. Now, if he wants 5 million bucks, forget it.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 09:59 AM) It actually started at the end of May, are you saying Adam was injured the last 4 months and that is the reason for his tail off? Irregardless, if he isn't getting the job done in the 3 hole, he shouldn't be hitting in the 3 hole, and he wasn't the last 4 months of the season. The fact that you just typed "irregardless" invalidated your whole argument.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 08:47 AM) Including his home/road splits? Because most people seem shocked at how bad those are. QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 9, 2013 -> 09:29 AM) I forget where I read the article, but it basically was stating that playing half of his games at the best hitters park in the NL will naturally skew his statistics towards a large home/away split, then you consider that he also plays atleast 27 games at LA, SF, and SD, then he plays any number of other games at pitchers parks and less favorable conditions than Colorado throughout the year, and then you consider that players hit better at home than they do on the road in general, and that .300+ difference between OPS is not as big a deal as people have made it out to be. The question lies wondering whether he is a .900 OPS player outside of Coors or closer to a .800-.850 OPS player. Depending upon the price, I think it's be worth it. This probably isn't what you are referring to, wite, but it covers the same issue with Justin Upton and I think makes those same points: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/j...-effect-mirage/ Some highlights:

My personal (somewhat speculatively plausible) pipe dream lately has been thinking about the Rockies dumping CarGo on the Sox for every minor league pitcher they want and probably Viciedo. This is after I took a look at his numbers recently and was shocked at how much better his slash lines are than I thought, and how he is left-handed and all, and how he would be so much better defensively if he just played LF all the time. But this is more because it would be really fun than necessarily a good move for each team.

As a tangent to your question, it's also interesting top note that they lowered the pitching mound in 1969 to help spur some offense. There was some seriously dominant pitching going on at that point.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 5, 2013 -> 10:26 AM) Why would a team take on Rios's remaining salary obligations while giving the White Sox anything useful back? You don't think Rios at 3/36 has value? I think he'd beat that on free agency this year. That being said, I'm not supporting the idea of trading him.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 4, 2013 -> 10:18 PM) Why the extremism? There is a middle ground here. This isn't a video game. You can field a solid team, even if they aren't the world series favorites. If you trade off everyone you destroy attendance for a decade. That is just dumb. This is an important point. The reality is that you can't build a winner in a single year -- you have to improve in increments when the opportunities present themselves.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 3, 2013 -> 04:58 PM) Looking at his career .735 OPS away from home, Hahn better make sure COL includes Coors Field in the trade Relevant: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/j...-effect-mirage/