thxfrthmmrs

holy hamburgers, what a night for Flowers! another SB for him? that is the second in 3 days. Looks like has been taking lessons on the basepaths instead of learning to swing for contact

what amazes me is they are really dominating as of late, especially the pitching. It's like if the Sox strikes first, you just know that the pitching will hold up till the end. They are also getting quality wins, it's not like they are barely winning by coming from behind most of the time. There weren't really doubts in many of those games that the Sox will come out on top. I think the team is really spoiling us now by not even giving the opponents a chance to win:)

looks like the big 3 douchebags will each take less money next season. all three will get 6 year deals via sign and trade, bosh and lebron will get $14.5 mil while wade takes $14 mil. Their combined salary with Chalmers is around $44 mil, leaving $14 mil to work with. With addition of Miller, possibly Haslem, Raja Bell, Fisher, and Ilgauskus, looks like they won't have to field a team with scrubs or minimum contract as thought.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jul 9, 2010 -> 05:03 PM) Outstanding signing at 5 mil per. Dude can fill it up from deep. We are quickly becomming the Utah Bulls. damn! he is a good signing, very good shooter, but for that type of money, the heat got mike miller. Korver is a good shooter, but pretty much one dimensional while miller can pass and rebound. I hope he won't be the starting SG for us next season, he and rose will get smoked on defense. Nice way to throw away the $20 Mil cap space we have, I really expect him to be a $3mil guy.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan99 @ Jul 9, 2010 -> 04:02 PM) It is incredibly difficult for me to remember any game winners or Jordanesque moments Kobe has had during any of the Lakers championship runs. It was always a role player like Horry, Fisher, Artest, etc. that made the big shot. Sure the Bulls had Kerr and Paxson but Jordan hit tons of game winners during the playoffs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUDdF8MPzBs i remember watching this live, when kobe was coming down with the ball after the tip, I knew it was going in, even though I didn't want it to. I never had that feeling about Lebron.

i said the preseason that this guy is under the radar given if his age is legit, and he plays at a premium position with good tools. Glad to see him performing at GF. But he moved he 3B now so his value took a little bit of a hit, if he can manage to stay at SS, he could easily be a top 20 given his age and our weak system. on a side note Flower is really struggling 0 for 3 with 3 k's though he didn't pick up a SB, interesting.. He used to draw alot of walks and is a great OBP guy, now he is not making contacting, striking out 40% of the time, and is not drawing any walks, somethings need to be done about this guy.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 9, 2010 -> 03:32 PM) Seconded. agreed, you guys are awesome.

QUOTE (hitlesswonder @ Jul 9, 2010 -> 03:08 PM) I agree. People that say he'll never be considered the greatest player ever are likely to look foolish. Lebron is going to have long career and probably will win more championships than Jordan. Moreover, as you say, he will be on TV all the time and he will be the best player on the Heat. In time, after a lot of winning and a of pro-Lebron media, I think people will say that Lebron cared more about winning than making people happy (that will be the spin at least). By the time James career is done, a lot of people will believe he was in fact the GOAT. Winning and modern media desperate to cover "the greatest ever" will cover up any sin committed last night. too bad he will take a BIG hit compared to the days with the Cavs, and Jordan had better stats and higher PER than he did before. Also, he won't be known for winning with a team he built around him. Great player like Jordan, Kobe, Magic, Bird are recognized as great by winning with their team. but douche Lebron had to join forces on somebody else's team with a guy who already won without him to try to win a ring. He will be given far less credit than Jordan did even if he wins. If a guy can't win with a team that is built around him, had to go join other superstars to win, how is he better than guys who created a dynasty with the team he has? You don't see Jordan say oh yea let me go join Hakeem or Isaiah or Ewing because I can't win on my own. He built a dynasty with his own team, he deserves way more credit than Lebron Plus, it's not a given that Lebron will win more than 6 rings, or it's not a given that he is clearly that much better than Wade on the team while putting up Jordanesque numbers. Cross him off the GOAT conversation.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 9, 2010 -> 02:37 PM) I never said he was a bad defensive player, just not a really great one. He is nowhere close to Dwight, a true game-changing big man that makes his entire team better. Four other guys on the Cavs put up the same defensive rating he did, and they finished 7th as a team. No one would even know who he is if he didn't play for the Cavs. The Cavs won 60 games because of Lebron. He did basically everything for them on offense and was a huge part of their defense as well. That roster works entirely because of Lebron, without him they're not a very good team. Now you're just making s*** up on the "not being a closer part". Did he not single-handedly beat the Pistons by scoring like 20 of their last 24 points in the conference finals? Did he not hit a ridiculous buzzer beater against Orlando to win game 2 last year? He's just fine as a closer, maybe if his team was good enough to keep them in the game when he's averaging 38-8-8 like he did in the Magic series last year he wouldn't have left. No one can do it by themselves. A lot of it is Mo and Jamison's fault, they were ghosts in the playoffs. Jamison only averaged 12-7 against Boston and shot 3-16 from the arc while getting destroyed by an aging Kevin Garnett (almost 19 PPG at a 52% clip). Mo was 4-19 from the arc in the Boston series and only averaged 13 points on 41% shooting while Rondo was putting up 21-12 against him. That was after Mo shot 39.6% against Atlanta and Orlando the previous year. Lebron didn't have a good series against Boston either by his standards, but it's hard to win by yourself. That's the difference between Lebron and Kobe right now: when Kobe shoots 6-24 in game 7 of the finals, his team finds a way to bail him out. i am sorry, but you tried to prove me wrong when I said he was one of the best defensive big in the league, and you tried to give s*** and say he can't block shots. well he can't but he is a good help defender, good physical defender, hustles, full of energy, and does the little things to annoy the offensive player, those qualities can not be measured by the stat sheet. Basketball is much more than stats. Stats wise, his on/off court for defense is -5.2 points, meaning the team gives up 5.2 more point if he is off the court. FYI, lebron was at -.9, and howard was only -3.6. I am not saying he is better than howard, though people have argued in the past season. but, if the guy was in contention for DPOY the whole season, and finished in all second team defense only because he didn't play too much minutes, I don't think it's a stretch to call him one of the defensive big in the game. This is what Adrian Wojnarowski, one of the better writers today, had to say about lebron: I am not the only crazy soul here who thinks Lebron is not a great clutch player. The pistons moment and the only buzzer beater he hit vs Magic was nice, but that was about it. He was and will never be Kobe or Jordan when it comes to performing in clutch. Duncan was show successful because he mans up when it mattered, such as hitting a 3 point( i believe it was) against lakers with 0.4 left, only to have fisher hit a buzzer beater on the other end, and hitting a 3 pointer against the Suns to force over time. Those shots were normally not within his range. Guys like Horry and Fisher are celebrated for the same characteristics, but frankly, lebron was doesn't have it. He just want to be part of something, he doesn't want to be something.

people need to realize that the 08-09 Cavs won over 60 games and reached the conference finals. This team is already talented. the additional of Shaq and Jamison only made them better. So he had a better team, a very very good team in 09-10, yet failed to get back to the Conference finals. so stop giving crap about him not having a good team to win anything.

QUOTE (T R U @ Jul 9, 2010 -> 01:56 PM) James didn't have control over the pieces that they brought in around him.. Sure, he has his input but im pretty sure he wanted Amare last season and the Cavs didn't want to give up Hickson so they went with Jamison.. They never gave him to second impact player he needed, and after 7 years he decided that he needed to move on to win a Championship.. Its all about winning for him, and when he does something about and goes somewhere that can make it happen hes bashed for it.. come on Correct me if im wrong, but im pretty sure that Kobe has not come close to having as successful seasons as LeBron has had without Shaq and Gasol on his team.. I don't recall the just Kobe Lakers being anything special, at all.. correct me if I am wrong. Every team is built differently, it doesn't take two superstars to win the championship. Take the 03 spurs, 04 pistons, and the 05 spurs for example. from 03 to 05, if you take a survey around the league, Parker and Ginobili are not regarded as superstars nor even top 20 players in the league. There definitely no superstar on the 05 pistons. It takes defense and chemistry to win a championship, and I believe that Cavs is built on that same model under Mike Brown. He quitted because he knows he can't win if he was the main guy on the team, if he knew he could win, then why did he leave? People need to stop giving him too much credit, he had a team that had the best record for 2 consecutive years, a team that was favorited to win the East if not the nba title after the acquisition of Jamison, yet he came away empty handed both time.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 9, 2010 -> 01:29 PM) The Pistons probably had four of the top-50 players in the league at the time, including a defensive player of the year caliber defender. It was definitely a differently constructed team, but they still clearly had elite-level talent. I guess you have a point on the 2003 Spurs, I obviously didn't check basketball reference before making that comment and mistakenly assumed Manu was at his peak. That said, I'd still take Parker over any non-Lebron Cav. 2005 and 2007 Spurs you definitely can't argue that Duncan didn't have some pretty major help. You still have Parker, who is (maybe was?) an outstanding driving guard and Manu was one of the most talented guards in the league. Look at Manu's stats again, over his career he's averaged 15-4-4 in only 28 MPG because the Spurs often rested him for the playoffs. He was DEFINITELY an impact player that could easily put up 20-5-5 in more minutes per game on a weaker team. If you look at his PER, he has been in the 22-24 range since 04/05, which is on the level of an elite player. You are DRASTICALLY overrating this Cavs' team sans-Lebron. First of all, he had Jamison for about half a year even when you factor in playoffs. There's still 6 1/2 seasons out of his career without Jamison. He has some good offensive skills, but is not a good defender. Mo Williams is a decent player, but has disappeared in the playoffs and isn't going to create a lot of positive plays on his own. Varejao is a nice role player, but hardly "one of the best defensive big men in the league". He is a successful position defender but is not a game-changing shot-blocking type big man. Shaq is hardly "overpowering" any more, more like extremely slow. He can't even stay on the floor for more than about 25 MPG. And why do people keep saying "role players" like West, Moon and Hickson like that's a good thing? Those guys aren't even average NBA players and are highly replaceable. There's a reason this team is going to struggle to win 30 games next year without Lebron, it's because they're not very good players. Williams and Jamison were relatively irrelevant players on mediocre/poor teams before coming to Cleveland and that's what they will be once again. I am sorry, I have to fact check you again. You are totally wrong for not giving varejao his credit. He was in contend for the DPOY award since mid season and end up finishing second team all defense because of Dwight Howard, and he didn't receive enough playing time. It's totally not a stretch to call him one of the best defensive big men in the league. Like I said yesterday, everyone can look at stats and judge, but you actually have to watch the game to know about the game. if you want to downgrade the the Cavs team, just take the fact that this team finished with the best record in the league the last two years, you can't do that unless the team is talented, and with Lebron in the mixed, this team definitely has the talented to be the best in the league and win it all, but his team didn't win anything nor sniff the NBA Finals in those years, and I believe that was the first time that happened in a long long long time. Like many said before, Lebron is not a closer, that's why he needs Wade to take the last shot. He doesn't have the killer instinct of Kobe or Jordan, or even Arenas and Billups. He is not the guy to take the last shot when the game is on the lineup. He is not as great as people make him out to be when everything is on the line, and you can't blame guys like Mo and Jamison for that.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 9, 2010 -> 12:38 PM) Depends on your definition of "elite". None of them were top-10 players in the league, but Wallace was the best defensive player in the league, Billups was a top-5 point guard, and Hamilton and Rasheed were both in the 5-10 range at their position. They had four highly legit talents. wallace was definitely not a top 5 player at the time, the only argument you have is billups could qualify as a top 5. Piston won with 4 above average players, and 1 great player. There was no elite player on that team. You can even argue that the spurs team in 2003 won with only 1 elite player, that year Manu was only a rookie, Parker was not any better than mo williams, David Robinson was in worse shape than shaq. Duncan was the only elite player on the team and that team was dominating. In 2005 Finals run, Spurs again only had the big three in Duncan, Parker and Manu. Parker and Manu being borderline allstars, similar to Mo Williams and Jamison, if not worse. 2007, you can argue the same case for the Spurs, though Ginobili and Parker became very good players that year. I am sick of people defending Lebron because he didn't have help. He had a multiple time all star in Jamison, an 20-9 threat on a nightly basis with good range, Mo Williams, a sharp shooter and replacement Allstar, one of the best defensive big man in the league in Varejao, a fading but still overpowering Shaq, and other solid role players in West, Moon, Hickson and so on. That team was as good if not better than the 2003, 2005 Spurs, and better than the 2005 pistons. It's funny that when the Cavs acquired Jamison, the whole bleeping media goes like oh Jamison is the best player James has played with, pairing him with Lebron, Shaq, and Mo will make the Cavs favorite to win the East and possibly get them past the Lakers, but when they lost in the second round, people had to again make excuses for him for not having a great team. like reading Woj's article earlier, Lebron knows he can't win on his own, he can't be the main guy on a Championship team, he needs a closer, and that guy is Wade. What a wuss.

QUOTE (Palehosefan @ Jul 9, 2010 -> 09:12 AM) You can always fill out the roster with veteran minimum contracts. LBJ + Wade + Bosh + Miller + Chalmers should be around 56M. From what I understand, the Heat could offer someone like Ilgauskas or Raja Bell 2M and then fill out the rest of the roster with veteran minimums and the 2nd round pick's. ya, even if they have 5 players now, 7 spots will have holds on it, minimum contracts are around $500K, they are now over cap from what i understand.

can someone tell me how the heat manage to sign miller for $30 million, presumably $5 million the first season? the big 3 and chalmers takes about $51 millions. that plus 8 cap holds will not be enough for them to sign a $5 million contract. This is really screw up that the heat is taking away everyone's free agent this offseason. I hope the big 3 gets injured all at the same time and they have to sport their lineup of scrubs.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 10:27 PM) You guys gotta read this. Dan Gilbert is pissed. http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/gilbert_letter_100708.html Imagine if that was mark cuban, he would have cursed all over the letter, piss on it them book a one hour special on espn to curse lebrons ass off

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 10:24 PM) One thing that bothers me about all the LeBron bashing is this... Who among us would be ripping on LeBron if the three had them had chosen the Bulls instead to pull this off with? I can only imagine the ingenuity that would be on display in defense of LeBron, had that been the case... chicagoans like to suck on sour lemons

QUOTE (RME JICO @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 10:15 PM) Really? Since the Bulls won their last championship, only 5 other teams have won (LA, BOS, DET, SA, and MIA). Detroit brought in a bunch of vets to win theirs, Miami brought in Shaq, Mourning, and Payton to win theirs, BOS did the same. Baseball has 5 different champs the last 5 years, football 5 in the last 6 years, and hockey 5 in the last 5 years. The NBA has only had 7 different champions since 1983 (27 years) and 8 since 1979 (31 years). <!--quoteo(post=2203575:date=Jul 8, 2010 -> 08:58 PM:name=Balta1701)--> QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 08:58 PM) <!--quotec-->I really thought like it was actually going in a positive direction the last few years. New crop of young stars taking over from the old ones, some of the referee problems from earlier this decade were at least starting to clean up, different teams putting it together, etc. ype. three douchebags getting together and decide they will play together, that will only shift the balance of power even more. some teams are just irrelevant nowadays.

QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 10:06 PM) So I was looking to see who the Bulls could add to the SG spot next season, and I found out that the league is really short of good shooting guards at the moment. After Wade, Kobe, Roy, Johnson and maybe Manu who you can call perennial all stars, the list of consistent performers are short and weak. Here are the top 10 players in PER last season. There are only 19 players who registered 15.00 or better PER last season, which is the placement of an average player, that is the lowest since the establishment of PER in 2002. and number 6 Beaubois is really a point guard who plays 12 minutes a game. 1 Dwyane Wade, MIA 77 36.3 .562 19.5 9.8 33.2 4.5 11.1 7.9 28.10 733.4 24.4 2 Manu Ginobili, SAS 75 28.7 .584 23.4 9.7 25.2 3.8 11.6 7.7 22.54 386.5 12.9 3 Kobe Bryant, LAL 73 38.8 .545 15.2 9.7 30.5 3.1 12.2 7.7 21.95 484.3 16.1 4 Brandon Roy, POR 65 37.2 .568 18.3 7.7 25.5 3.7 10.9 7.3 21.36 392.2 13.1 5 Joe Johnson, ATL 76 38.0 .538 18.3 7.2 25.3 3.0 11.4 7.1 19.33 380.1 12.7 6 Beaubois, DAL 56 12.5 .617 16.4 12.0 23.0 2.0 10.7 6.4 18.59 81.4 2.7 7 Jamal Crawford, ATL 79 31.1 .573 14.7 8.5 24.4 1.6 8.0 4.8 18.50 282.8 9.4 8 Andre Iguodala, PHI 82 38.9 .535 23.6 10.9 21.4 3.0 16.8 9.8 17.82 348.8 11.6 9 Marcus Thornton, 73 25.6 .550 9.9 6.6 23.0 4.4 8.9 6.6 17.50 187.3 6.2 10 Vince Carter, ORL 75 30.8 .541 15.8 7.1 23.3 1.7 12.6 7.3 17.11 227.9 7.6 A lot of people on this list are closing in on 30 years old if not over, so we are witnessing the decline of this position the downfall of former all stars T-mac, iverson, Allen, Carter, Michael Redd, Finley, and Stackhouse without any young and prominent shooting guard coming into the league. the death of the midrange game, the post game, the lack of good power forwards and shooting guards. Just another reason why the NBA is no longer what it used to be. that, plus three douchebags getting together before free agency starts to decide that they are playing together next season, that really killed the league and it's becoming a joke more and more

So I was looking to see who the Bulls could add to the SG spot next season, and I found out that the league is really short of good shooting guards at the moment. After Wade, Kobe, Roy, Johnson and maybe Manu who you can call perennial all stars, the list of consistent performers are short and weak. Here are the top 10 players in PER last season. There are only 19 players who registered 15.00 or better PER last season, which is the placement of an average player, that is the lowest since the establishment of PER in 2002. and number 6 Beaubois is really a point guard who plays 12 minutes a game. 1 Dwyane Wade, MIA 77 36.3 .562 19.5 9.8 33.2 4.5 11.1 7.9 28.10 733.4 24.4 2 Manu Ginobili, SAS 75 28.7 .584 23.4 9.7 25.2 3.8 11.6 7.7 22.54 386.5 12.9 3 Kobe Bryant, LAL 73 38.8 .545 15.2 9.7 30.5 3.1 12.2 7.7 21.95 484.3 16.1 4 Brandon Roy, POR 65 37.2 .568 18.3 7.7 25.5 3.7 10.9 7.3 21.36 392.2 13.1 5 Joe Johnson, ATL 76 38.0 .538 18.3 7.2 25.3 3.0 11.4 7.1 19.33 380.1 12.7 6 Beaubois, DAL 56 12.5 .617 16.4 12.0 23.0 2.0 10.7 6.4 18.59 81.4 2.7 7 Jamal Crawford, ATL 79 31.1 .573 14.7 8.5 24.4 1.6 8.0 4.8 18.50 282.8 9.4 8 Andre Iguodala, PHI 82 38.9 .535 23.6 10.9 21.4 3.0 16.8 9.8 17.82 348.8 11.6 9 Marcus Thornton, 73 25.6 .550 9.9 6.6 23.0 4.4 8.9 6.6 17.50 187.3 6.2 10 Vince Carter, ORL 75 30.8 .541 15.8 7.1 23.3 1.7 12.6 7.3 17.11 227.9 7.6 A lot of people on this list are closing in on 30 years old if not over, so we are witnessing the decline of this position the downfall of former all stars T-mac, iverson, Allen, Carter, Michael Redd, Finley, and Stackhouse without any young and prominent shooting guard coming into the league. the death of the midrange game, the post game, the lack of good power forwards and shooting guards. Just another reason why the NBA is no longer what it used to be.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 09:45 PM) Mario Chalmers doesn't count as a PG? chalmers will be there, but he won't get any handles, nor any other starting PG for that matter. Since lebron and wade aren't terrific three point shooters, why not put a sharp shooter in the starting 5 if that is the case. chalmers is only decent at best.

when was the last time a team features a SG and a SF who can average 5 assists per game? I dont think the heats would need a starting point guard next season, they would need a three point shooter. Probably like Kyle Korver or JJ Reddick. They will probably operate without a starting point guard next year.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 05:15 PM) Last post on this... Bosh is WAY better at the power forward spot than Deng. Vinny played Deng at the 4 a fair amount, and it didn't go so well. Bosh is not a great defender, but you can do a lot worse than 10 boards and a block from your PF spot, and it's not just because he plays at the 4. I don't really care if he's a "traditional power forward" since those barely exist anymore. He's plenty effective in that role. The raptors felt the same way you did, and end up finishing last in the league in defense. If you have a big who can't defend, you are forced have another good defensive big man, which the raptors didn't. If they had a better than defensive PF, and put bosh at SF instead of turk, they may fare a lot better on defense, while virtually still getting the same production from bosh. I agree Bosh is a better PF than Deng. He is more talented thus makes more money. And lastly, I am gladly you felt the same way I did that Bosh is not a traditional big man and is more of a traditional small forward than anything.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 04:55 PM) sounds like ESPN is fearing their ratings weren't going to be crazy tonight and sent one of their lap dogs to stir some interest the thing is, if ESPN really wants to boost their rating, why do they kill all the mystery by letting the world know where he stands now? it really kills a lot of interest right? especially in Chicago and new york. Though, if like 2 hours before the show starts, they report that Lebron had a change of heart and is leaning towards Chicago or new york, it would get really interesting and boost their ratings dramatically.

QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 8, 2010 -> 04:28 PM) I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the guy averaging 20-9 on his career while shooting 49% from the floor is a big man. How many small forwards that aren't named Larry Bird or Elgin Baylor have ever put up a line like that? Maybe a few other combo forwards like Marion or Wallace, but they both play/played inside a lot. He doesn't shoot 3's, he doesn't defend perimeter players (and probably shouldn't outside of a switch on a pick and roll), he starts his drives from the high post (not at the top of the arc or on the wings like a perimeter player), well over 40% of his attempts come in the basket area, which you can only say about like 4 perimeter players (all of which have no shooting ability), and he draws 8 FT's a game which is generally reserved for big men or really, really good penetrators (which he's not). About the only thing in the small forward column is that he's a decent ball-handler for his size and he can shoot mid-range jumpers, but you can say that about a lot of big men. Your team is in deep s*** if he's your starting SF, but he's one of the top-10 big men in the league at PF. there is a new breed of combo forwards nowadays, and bosh is one of them, he can play the big man, but he is really a small forward. you listing all those stats is nice, but he is putting up those big man stats i.e. good rebounding and close shots %, only because he plays the power forward. There is no denying that he also have the attributes of a small forward (ie midrange game, range out to 3, good slasher, no strength, not a good post defender), and his "little man skills" are better than his big man skills, which really makes him a combo forward playing the 4. Hell, if you throw luol deng at the 4, he could get your 18 and 9 easily, while shooting lot of close shots. He is a versatile player, i'll give you that, but he really fits the bill of a small forward more than a big man, just because he is playing PF and is putting up numbers like a big man, doesn't mean he is a traditional big man.