thxfrthmmrs

I can get behind a 1+1 deal, ala Twins’ for Cruz, except less $$.

I see we’re trying to get out in front of any bad PR from a failed Betts signing next offseason by locking up an RF.

Who are the remaining suitors besides Sox for EE anyways? Rangers have Choo, Rays have Tsutsugo/Choi, and Blue Jays have Tellez. EE would be an upgrade for those teams but chances of them going after him are low. At this point I would be extremely surprised the Sox don’t end up signing him.

I am completely aware of how the contract is accounted on the team's books, but what I am suggesting is the number of years a pitcher needs to be effective, and not the number of years the contract would be accounted across. Put it this way, how much value does a pitcher like Cole get you? 6 WAR? 7? The value he gives you per season is capped. So in a $324M contract, Cole would have to pitch at an elite level for 6 years to justify the contract. With how volatile pitchers have proven to be, especially aging power pitchers, that is a huge risk. So you can argue that it doesn't matter id the contract is accounted over 9 or 20 years, it absolutely matters in this 9 year contract Cole has to be elite for 6.

Do you seriously think that? It absolutely has everything to do with the years. There is a reason the longest committed contract to a baseball pitcher is only 7 years. Had Cole been looking for a 6/$216M contract Sox would absolutely be in the running. There is only one team who in the history of MLB gave 9 years of top dollar to a pitcher, and that team is worth 3x the White Sox. I don’t need to harp on the risk of an expensive contract to a pitcher, not to mention on top of that a 9 year deal. The risk of the pitcher coming down with career altering injury or just losing effectiveness increases significantly with a longer deal. Also quoting $36M AAV is misleading, Cole would almost be less effective or even a shell of his former self by years 7 or 8 of the deal, so you’re essentially deferring his current salary to later years by giving him a longer deal. Also giving a deal like that would essentially close the window on any hope of resigning extending a Moncada, Giolito or even Anderson or Kopech. It’s just not a good baseball move for the Sox. Of the things to complain about how this offseason went, not outbidding Yankees for Cole is the very last one of them.

This. Also I may be in the minority but I’m fine with giving Collins a shot at DH to begin the season. If he flops DH is probably the easiest position to fill through in season trades (even thought 2019 says otherwise). We’re at $110M right now by my calculation and even though we could fit EE on the payroll, I’d rather shorten the game by signing 2 highend BP arms.

I like him too and he is what I hope Mendick would become. But definitely won’t come cheap. You’re taking the word wishlist... too literally.

Who else do you want Santa Ricky bring in for the Sox this Christmas? I see a lot of discussion on the Keuchel thread on this and most owns another DH type like EE and RP. I think an elite RP is a must (Harris, Betances, Cishek), but how about a stopgap 2B? I like Cesar Hernandez but wouldn't mind a Asdrubal or Dozier. Dozier especially since he kills lefties. Could slide in as platoon with Collins if we don't land a EE.

Might have overpaid by $5-10M but who cares, everyone else had to overpay for pitching this offseason. Rotation is set!

No one has confirmed since Gammons mentioned it. But Rosenthal has also speculated this scenario before winter meeting, that was to shred contracts for Price or Eovaldi.

Correction: Red Sox are willing to to include Benintendi so they don't have to throw in like $40M of cash to get rid of Price's contract. Benintendi also has 3 years of team control left vs. 2 for Gray. It may not be apples to apples but idea is the same. Teams are willing to include valuable assets to dump salary depending on their situation. While Rockies are not in luxury tax hell, they're also a smaller market team with a $160M payroll and are at crossroads with their star player. (Their payrolls is continually on the rise each of the last 6 years, lowest was 2013, at $79M.)

Because Rockies don’t have an obvious platoon candidate and Sox have 2 and a DH spot? Also see post above. Re: Bold. But Red Sox are willing to throw in Benintendi to get rid Price’s contract so they could keep Betts? You’re forcing a narrative that isn’t there. So keep trying harder.

Also the Desmond value is very much a factor, teams, especially a low end market team like Rockies, do not bench or waive a guy making the money Desmond does. He will continue to be on the roster and starting over young guys. There aren’t teams lining up to take on Desmond’s contract even if they are trading for Gray. Sox could establish advantage by being one of few teams that would take on his contract because one they could afford it, and two they could find a role for Desmond. By getting rid of his negative WAR contribution and inserting someone like Hilliard or Rodgers (sliding McMahon to LF), they’d easily get positive WAR output from that spot. Addition by subtraction, something not factor in a basic $/WAR calculation. Also say they could trade Gray and get top prospects in return, they’re still in payroll crunch and have to explore trading Nolan. Or they could trade Gray, getting rid of bad contract and keep Nolan, while sacrificing a bit on quality of prospects. One is a better option than the other. Look, Rockies have been listening on Gray already. They could either trade Gray for the best return and not worry about salary or roster spot. However getting rid of Desmond has a lot more value for the Rox than you think. But sure let’s ignore that for the sake of your argument.

How much more? $6M? Based on a theoretical figure that teams aren’t actually paying? Also how many free agent dollar does the two prospects worth? Is it a trade Rockies would accept outright? Probably not, but is it something they would counter on? I don’t doubt it. It would not happen because there are other factors in play casual fans are in privy to know, but not for the reasons you gave. Try better Dick Allen.

He’s also making $15M (est. arb) himself, so factor that in.

Really? Because Gray plus Desmond consistently averaged about 2.5 fWAR each of the past 3 years, and they’re shredding $20M a year over the next two. That is consistent the theoretical value of $/WAR. Also for the record, teams paid anywhere from $4-6M/WAR on starting pitching this off season. I am not even counting back prospects going back in the deal. So you can keep telling me how that’s not a deal Rox would even consider.

Yea, getting rid of one of the worst contracts in baseball so they could possibly retain their two best players while freeing up roster spot for guys who are ready to play and getting value for a guy who is ready to walk to in two years. Yea I couldn’t even see them giving this a thought.

You’re getting Jon Gray for 2 arb years, which is likely $15M total, which is what the deal is about. You can pay Keuchel something like 4/$72M or have Gray, who has much more upside, plus an effective platoon for 2$/40M.

I wouldn’t mind taking Ian Desmond’s remaining $23M contract along with Gray for Rutherford and someone like Flores. Gray is the get obviously with higher upside than Ryu or Keuchel. Desmond has been a negative WAR player each of the last 3 years so Rox would be trilled to get rid of that contract and free up an OF spot for Sam Hilliard. But he’s also incredible effective against lefties, posting 131 and 149 OPS+ against them over the last 2 years. He could be easily step in as the platoon partner for Collins and Mazara.

Robert and Madrigal played at 3 levels already last season, and both played more games than they’ve ever had by a long shot. There was little to gain by forcing a promotion at that point. Sure, service clock played a role in that. Would that have made them both more ready to play this season? Surely. But even without doing so, this team have enough talent after one more SP addition and will be in the ALC or WC race this year.

That’s not apples to apples. You’re talking about giving some 200 ABs and a taste of big leagues and an off season to work on kinks vs calling up someone early by a month at the start of the season. How many wins less would Sox have last year if Eloy started the first month in the minors? 1,2? If that.

They’re not mutually exclusive. You can be competitive and financially cautious (as related to team control) at same time.

Starting them off in the minors for the first month or so does not prevent Sox from competing.

You will be disappointed.

Cease’s issues actually started in AAA, where his WHIP, BB% and BAA are all similar to his 70+ innings of work at MLB, so it is not as if he doesn’t have anything to work on at AAA either. If he throws another 50 innings and shows no progression at all, I’m fine with sending him back down to work on his game for a few months and call him back up when there is an opening.