Frank_Thomas

QUOTE (kev211 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 09:53 PM) Why are so many people doubting the sox ability to win the central in this thread? With or without grienke I think we are better than the tigers. That may be, however I don't think many people would be just happy winning the central when we could possibly win the World Series. With Grienke that possibility is a whole lot more feasible when you need to shut down the offenses of LA, NYY, TX, Dodgers, Etc. Grienke is an ace and throwing ZG, Sale, Peavy, and Danks is down right scary. This move makes us WS contenders not AL Central contenders like we are now. I love this team and am not doubting. But when you have a chance to get a guy like ZG for a run with the team we have, you take the chance and worry about next year next year. These chances come rarely. Once in 95 years to be exact.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 09:49 PM) Rock, you hearing anything? Your pretty dang solid and have had some great sources in the past.

Here's another article about Melvin on ZG. Here's some things I found interesting in here: Melvin said he has not had formal negotiations with Greinke about a contract extension since Spring Training, meaning last week's report that the Brewers had extended a five-year offer in excess of $100 million -- a report Greinke himself confirmed -- was slightly inaccurate. More likely, Melvin and Greinke's agent, Casey Close, informally discussed parameters of a potential deal, and the Greinke camp decided the sides' expectations were too far apart. Greinke is on a path to reach free agency for the first time. Asked on Thursday whether an extension was in the offing, Melvin said, "I don't think that's going to happen. You never know -- someone could pick up the phone. But I don't think so." Nationals manager Davey Johnson doesn't expect to be facing Greinke on Sunday. "I'd be real surprised. I know in the past, if the ballclub's intent on making a move, they're not going to pitch him two days before the Deadline," Johnson said. There were, Johnson said, "several reasons" for his suspicion, including the fact that the Brewers added an extra arm to their bullpen earlier Thursday. There were others. "A club would probably like to put him right in their rotation," Johnson said. "You wouldn't want to do anything to hurt him. So yeah, I'd be surprised if he's still here." Link: http://m.mlb.com/news/article/2012072635605600/

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 06:34 PM) So you're okay with KW, no matter what the record and attendance are next year...if he goes for it with Greinke, they don't make the playoffs and Zach ends up with the Braves, Angels, Dodgers, etc.?? Because the last time "All In" failed, it took about 4 months into the following season for fans to start believing in that team again. No I think he is saying you worry about the 2013 team in the offseason. You have a chance to go for it, you do. Period. It's been 3 years since we have been to the playoffs. Win now and 2013 takes care of it's self. Be optimistic. And again KW will not just pack it in next year if we don't win the WS this year. It's not in his character or vocabulary, nor the Whitesox philosophy for a long time.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 06:29 PM) Even if this is true, I'm fine with it. Ditto. Let's give it a go now. And I sincerely doubt because we get Zach we are below .500 next year. Heck we were only suppose to win 64 games this year and we are going to hit that hopefully shortly. Give Kenny some credit look at how the team he put together is performing now. It helps we actually have a lineup that doesn't change daily. KW is smart and will not do anything that hurts us now or in the future.

QUOTE (soxfan49 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 06:29 PM) Yeah, I doubt KW actually wants Greinke. I can't remember the last time words got out that he wanted someone and he still got him. It's usually a precursor to a trade, but a trade for another player. Youkilis, Dunn when he was in Washington, to name a few. KW has been a little more open with the media lately. Not to mention I think he feels a little more comfortable clueing people in now that Ozzie and his loose mouth family isn't around. I just have a very hard time believing this is hype.

Here's Heyman's odds: I'll just do the top three and include a link if you want to see the rest of the list. NOTE: does Heyman really not know Floyd is back? I mean c'mon man get ur facts straight. 1. Rangers. They had Hamels first on their list and appear to be considering Josh Johnson and James Shields, as well, now. But they have the best prospects to trade, perhaps giving them an inside track. Baseball people knew the Rangers were in but started to get the idea Texas would mount a serious effort when it sent two scouts to Philadelphia, including Jim Colborn, a big-time guy known for his Pacific Rim work (he was behind Yu Darvish). There's been no request for maybe the best prospect in baseball, shortstop Jurickson Profar to date. It isn't known whether the Rangers would consider trading top third base prospect Mike Olt for Greinke, but even if not, they have other high-end prospects to deal. Greinke won a Cy Young in the American League in 2009 so the league switch shouldn't be an issue, either. Odds: 9-5. 2. Braves. The Braves like Greinke very much, and another positive, he is said to like them, as well, a big plus after their bad experience of being blown off by Ryan Dempster (who they expected to approve the deal to Atlanta). Greinke is said by one person close to him to actually love the idea of Atlanta long-term, as the Braves have been consistent winners (a big thing for him, though apparently not so much for Dempster) and it doesn't hurt that they train in his hometown of Orlando. The Braves have a very nice crop of big-time pitching prospects, including Randall Delgado, who was all set to go to Chicago for Dempster. Odds: 3-1. 3. White Sox. They are said to absolutely love Greinke, and GM Kenny Williams is a man who doesn't let prospects stand in the way of a run at a championship. The one issue is whether the White Sox could go toe-to-toe with the top two teams in terms of prospect packages. They do have many rookie pitchers on their current roster, however. With John Danks having no timetable for a return and Gavin Floyd out now, too, there certainly is a need. Odds: 5-1. Link:http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-heyman/19662670/greinke-derby-should-be-a-doozy-rangers-braves-chisox-angels-dodgers-etc

Thanks, man it's been all over the place. The national writers have been saying the Sox have been the most interested. I just want a resolution. One way or the other sooner rather than later.

Who is Tom? A beat writer?

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:14 PM) That ship may have sailed. Bucket, you have heard the debates. If you were to "guess" what would a trade look like in your opinion?

QUOTE (scenario @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:08 PM) I keep seeing people saying Floyd is the trade chip, but I can't help thinking its Quintana. Q has been great for us this year, but if you were the Brewers which would make more sense to you. A guy getting paid $9m with one year left before free agency... Or a 23 year old (lefty) at league minimum they could control for the next 5 years. And for us... Q is in the same dangerous territory that Sale is reaching innings wise. One of the main reasons for us to get another starter is to cover innings Sale and Q may not be able to pitch. What good would it do us down the stretch if we give up a 200+ inning guy like Floyd and then still be forced to dip into the minors to get coverage for Sale/Q when they max out? My guess... Quintana and Beckham are being offered along with one or more minor leaguers. I think KW wants to hold onto Quintana, he's a pleasant question mark. I think we know what we get out of Floyd. It also makes sense the Brewers would want Floyd over Quintana cause Floyd is atleast proven. Q is largely still an unknown. And IMO if the Brewers wanted to take a flyer on a potentially good prospect they will make a trade with a different team who can offer a better spect. I think the fact we are offering ML proven and ready players in return is what makes us attractive to Melvin.

QUOTE (GoGoSox2k2 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:05 PM) because if we take on k-rods salary it could help to lower the price for ZG. And JR may be thinking with a pick up of ZG it will spike attendance even more to help offset the k-rod salary Those were my thoughts exactly. Yea Jones is cheaper but K Rod might be someone that is included. And truthfully is not a horrible option down the stretch over an unproven rookie.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 03:03 PM) Why would JR want to take on K-Rod's salary when odds are Nate Jones might actually be better down the stretch at the league minimum? And Jones could be a part of the future and grow up with the rest of the bullpen. Don't know man, I was just saying it makes sense of the brewers are trying to move money. It's just one mans opinion on what the trade might include. I might be well off. Just my opinion.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 02:59 PM) They have zero need for K-Rod with Myers and Crain and Jones. He's superfluous. Not if jones is included.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 02:49 PM) Which means Jordan Danks is our new LFer and Brett Myers is our closer in 2013 at $10 million, with his 91-92 MPH fastball. Dumb. Dumb. Dumb. Wasn't the point of trading Santos that we don't have to pay a closer more than minimum salary? And then we're going to pay Myers like he's one of the 3-5 best closers in baseball when clearly he's not elite?? It also means we wouldn't be able to keep AJ or Youkilis for sure. Guys relax, Kenny is not an idiot. He is not going go make a move that will significantly effect the team. Viciedo, Alexi, Reed, all are too important THIS year. They have valuable rolls they play. I'm pretty confident if this gets done we will be parting with Beckham+Floyd+ a spect or two for Grienke+ Weeks+ K-Rod IMO. That is a blockbuster and adds to the team significantly for THIS year. That's what I see happening if this happens.

Freaking love it!!!!

They said the plan would be to trade him before his next start, which is Saturday I'm pretty sure. I'm thinking things could really heat up in the next 24 hours. Especially with how quiet it has been today.

Here's a quote I just wanted to further point out the Sox are absolutely for real about ZG. Quote from ESPN Chicago article about how Peavy would welcome Grienke. The Sox had one of their top talent evaluators, scout Bill Scherrer, watching Greinke defeat the Philadelphia Phillies on Monday night. Link:http://m.espn.go.com/mlb/story?storyId=8202045&city=chicago

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 01:18 PM) First of all, you better be guaranteeing a 9-1 or 10-0 record for Greinke, and you can't do that. At worst, Quintana or Floyd would probably be 5-5. If it's not Quintana, it's going to be Floyd and Reed/Jones and another prospect. If it's so easy to find a closer, we wouldn't have blown 15 saves and gone through Santiago, Thornton, Sale and Viciedo trying to do that. Just think about it...if we had a normal save conversion rate, then there wouldn't be as much of a need to trade for Greinke because we'd be anywhere 12-16 games over .500 right now. Apparently, those games that Greinke throws shutouts or K's 13 are more valuable in the standings than games that aren't blown by the back end of the bullpen. That's not reality. You can argue that those late collapses have been even more damaging to the team psyche than games where Humber, Axelrod, Hernandez or Stults gets hit around. I agree we can't promise 9-1 10-0 but even if he wins six against the likes of Det or Cle, that's a difference maker and an impact move. Really how many wins is Gordon or Floyd going to bring us? And the chemistry thing is overrated, they are professionals and when they step into the clubhouse and on the field it's about one thing baseball and winning. That has been stated over and over again this year by players. We have a group of guys that want to win and want a ring. They will understand this move and IMO be happy about it. Gordo is great same with Gav but check the egos at the door.you can still be buds, but if it makes us WS Champs I don't think anyone in that dugout will be upset.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 01:12 PM) Sounds to me like Viciedo and Reed are gone. I'm pretty sure ViciedO is going NO WHERE. He is producing and in my opinion untouchable. I also don't see Reed being moved. Beckham and Floyd are under performing this year and substituted them out does not will have a huge effect on the team wins or losses the way ZG does. Whether it's 10 starts or not. He changes the look of our team and makes our rotation lethal in a playoff series. We saw what pitching does in October in 05'. Again I am a die hard Beckham fan, but we can replace his lack of production at the plate and nothing changes. Heck maybe we get more production. Secondly yes his D has been great this year, but you can plug in Escobar or Weeks and not miss a beat defensively. It would suck to lose Gordo but the potential impact Grienks brings even for 2 months is absolutely worth it.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 01:11 PM) Why don't the Sox try to get the starting pitcher the Marlins allegedly want to dump. Is it Johnson? Johnson is controlled till the end of 13 at a resonable price. He would take a huge package something like Cliff Lee or CC a while back.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 01:10 PM) Don't have names. Posted exactly what I was told last night. My feelings are that because of a variety of factors (1st place/Tigers trade/attendance spike...etc) KW is really going after it this year and wants it done yesterday. I do think there are fans that will be upset about who goes. Some very real concerns throughout this thread. Wow interesting!!

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jul 26, 2012 -> 12:54 PM) No team is giving up that kind of prospect and the Brewers know it. I think they're trying to set themselves up to get 3 or 4 very nice, high ceiling prospects instead of 1 or 2. I agree. These teams have had talks about players before. And when Kenny was after Prince. The centerpiece was said to be Floyd and Beckham. KW balked at giving that up at the time for a half year of Prince but with the way Beckham and Floyd have progressed I think they are more inclined to pull the trigger now. Obviously we would be getting something else in return too.