Frank_Thomas

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 06:47 PM) Yeah, whatever man. You make it sound like the guy never has a bad game and were willing to sell the Sox near future for 10 starts. What about that sample size? The fact is, and I know facts are something you have a hard time with when it comes to Greinke,1. the guy has some issues. 2. the guy didn't want to be a White Sox. 3. There's no guarantee he would have pitched at a Cy Young level if he were here based on numbers 1 and 2. and 4. he's gone through stretches where he hasn't been very good in each of the past 3 seasons. Its not worth what it would have cost for 10 f***ing starts. If the farm system was loaded, perhaps another story. K. Well check the facts in October. And I'm not going to be sorry for being a guy that would like my team to go for it. I have been a season tickets holder for 16 years and seen one WS, and not seen a playoff game in 3 years. But I can't tell you how many prospects I've seen, most of them this board enotes as the future or untouchable. You're right, I'm not worried about next year, I'm not a Cubs fan. If we would have traded for ZG and he started "10 F***ing starts" got us to the postseason and won a WS. You wouldn't give a crap about who we gave up. You play to win the games. You can keep crossing your fingers about relievers with 4 Eras, underperforming ML talent who have the same "problem" than Greinke, mentally weak. Difference is ZG is a disease he gets treatment for. So call him a whack job or whatever, a lot of people suffer from this disease. He can't help it. Beckham and Floyd are average players because they are mentally weak.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 06:37 PM) Yeah, Zach Greinke's 6.00+ playoff ERA probably has most of baseball calling it a season. Yep cause a whole three starts is enough of a sample size to judge it. Whatever man, like I said we can check back on this debate in a couple months and we can see.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 06:36 PM) Rangers: 3.02 3.88 3.43 White Sox 3.15 2.37 2.58 LAA 2.89 2.26 3.44 (in NL central) Guess we can check back on this after we play the other half of the season. Difference between ours and theirs is uncertainty. But I respect your opinion, and well Check the facts after the whole season is played. Well also see which of these teams fair the best in October. IMO us getting ZG puts us ahead, but them getting ZG puts them further ahead than us. This one goes to your white sox. I guess you can bring in ancillary comments with your opinion but I choose to just look at facts and statistics.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 06:24 PM) Come on, who has a better 1-2-3 right now than us? We are in good shape and I think KW is actually deeper elsewhere. Well now the Angels do. The Rangers arguably do. And not to mention this move will set the Rangers off to go out and acquire some guys. Thus overpaying, and taking the chances of us getting someone that will actual be worth the cost slim. Sorry this is bad news. Finally, who is are 1-2-3 a guy who hasnt started a season in the ML or shown he can last the while season and a deep run in October, a guy who's arm basically feel off a few years ago and is back for the first time in three years who is always being overpitched, and a 23 year old minor league journeyman who is pitching lights out, who is also unproven in a full season. Sorry I think you guys are overvaluing the depth of our rotation right now. I'm personally very disappointed, and am deflated cause our chances of making a run in the playoffs just got a hell of a lot more difficult.

Well that sucks. Now we can have an even harder time beating AL contenders. Now we better do something, and not a Ryan Dempster. Now we can all watch how Impactful Zack really is. With that time to go out and get drunk.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 04:22 PM) The very fact that the Angels offered a bench player (Peter Bourjos) straight up for Shields not only hints at the perceived market value, it also indicates he could probably be had for one of our young pen arms (hope for Jones, settle for Reed), a decent spect like Mitchell, and then a low-level spect. That's just my opinion. And the Angels were laughed at. Let's just wait and see what happens instead of ripping apart everyone's posts.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 04:13 PM) Though the White Sox don't have a highly-regarded farm system, they have enough talent in the Major Leagues to acquire Greinke, Heyman reports. Gavin Floyd's name has come up in trade talks, but he doesn't appear to be related to the Greinke sweepstakes, Heyman reports. MLBTR Interesting, I just want some dag gum information already. This also reiterates the point Bucket made yesterday. Seems his sources are a little more ahead of the curve than Mr. Heyman.

Though the White Sox don't have a highly-regarded farm system, they have enough talent in the Major Leagues to acquire Greinke, Heyman reports. Gavin Floyd's name has come up in trade talks, but he doesn't appear to be related to the Greinke sweepstakes, Heyman reports. MLBTR Interesting, I just want some dag gum information already.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 03:50 PM) Saying the only player you'd trade "Tank" for is "The King" is the very definition of a delusional statement. Sorry my fault I thought the fact we would likely have to part with tank for shields was delusional. I may be delusional about that, but I wouldn't personally trade Tank for anyone other than Felix. That's my own opinion delusional or not, I really like tank and think he has a chance to be dominate for a long time.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 03:27 PM) Uh, Shields would certainly be cheaper than Greinke - and under control for 9 mill next year and 12 mill the year after. I hope Shields is the true target. See, I would classify that as being delusional.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 03:46 PM) That is a delusional statement. LOL okay.

QUOTE (GoGoSox2k2 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 03:39 PM) shields is the guy I have wanted us to target all along.. i hope Rock and Bucket are on to something.. pleaseee Def. sounds like they are inferring something. I would be pleased with James after looking up some of his stats Last year the guy was nasty. But unlike ZG, I don't think we have much the Rays would want. I think a deal with Tampa likely means the end of Tank on the southside. And I wouldn't give tank up for anyone than the King himself.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 03:27 PM) Uh, Shields would certainly be cheaper than Greinke - and under control for 9 mill next year and 12 mill the year after. I hope Shields is the true target. Uh. No he wont for the fact he is under control for the next 2 years. If Sheilds is traded the Rays will get a far better pacakage than the Brewers. A team is much more likely to include top prospects for a guy they have for multiple years than a 2 month rental. Pretty logical.

QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 03:22 PM) You're the one who said it was a joke to call 09 a career year. Obviously a Cy Young season is going to be a pitchers best year but holy s*** how do you not see the glaring contrast between that year and every single other one? It's not like he was a tick better than his average season. Career ERA+: 115 2009: 205 Career ERA: 3.79 2009: 2.16 Career WHIP: 1.251 2009: 1.073 That's f***ing drastic Wow.really to.disect a guy like ZG is just crazy to me. Its not just about #'s the guy. I'm done defending ZG to the likes of Dempster. I guess well see what Kenny does. But I can tell you this if we do get ZG there will be a whole lot of people eating their words. Just like the majority of this board who said You'll was done and not that good. Ill keep my opinions to.myself until whoever gets ZG shows you what an impact player is.

QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 03:11 PM) ERA+ by year (ERA) 2007 - 124 (3.69) 2008 - 125 (3.47) 2009 - 205 (2.16) 2010 - 100 (4.17) 2011 - 103 (3.83) 2012 - 120 3.44) So actually yeah, the stats do say that was a career year. Usually a CY Young year is a "career year" lol. And how anyone can say those numbers are just okay is beyond me. What does Garza, Sheilds, Dempsters career numbers look like. Not close to that

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 03:14 PM) KW did it for Peavy. Right and Garza/Sheilds aren't the same pitcher Peavy is. Again a guy that has won a Cy young comes with a pedigree. When it comes to a pitcher like Peavy or ZG you make hard decisions and give up assests.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 03:10 PM) And disregard his problems, and how many teams in large markets wouldn't take him for a fraction of the price he will ultimately cost. Steve Stone called him a small market pitcher. There are a lot of people who get paid a lot of money to make decisions in major league baseball who agree with him. Its also for 10 starts. You don't decimate your team for years for 10 starts especially if the guy has some issues mentally. Give me a break, MIL has probably had better attendance then us since he's been a Brewer and was pitching night in night out in sellout crowds during their playoffs run. And we are not some crazy big market team. Even Youk said the media leaves you alone unless you're the player of yhegame or something. Knit picking to knit pick. And finally clearly plenty of "big" market teams are interested, look at the rumored teams interested. And you aren't scouting a guy if your not interested.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 03:06 PM) This Greinke s*** is all a KW smokescreen. He's going to land a player like Garza or Shields who will be under team control for 2-3 years - not some 10 start rental he has to bid for that has already stated he hates pitching in the Cell and has a history of being a nutcase. So everyone is up in arms with giving up a package for ZG, lol what do you think the Cubs or Rays will want for guys under contract for longer than this year. It will be a hell of a lot more than for Grienke. And you guys are worried about what we give up to MIL, I'm sure you will all be cool watching the guys we give the Cubs help them out "for years to come." and let's not forget Garza is out, hurt till after the deadline. But were okay giving up good players for someone who is hurt.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 02:56 PM) Just like how many have argued this is a career year for Dempster, Greinke's fantastic CY season looks like a career year as well. He's never come close to matching that season. Dempster is incredibly underrated on here if you're looking for a 10 game stretch run from a pitcher. Wow that's all I can say. Go look at stats before you just say the guy is eh just okay. Zach Grienke has some of the best stuff in baseball. Period. If you can get a Cy young player during a playoff run you do. And a career year, what a joke, I have posted his stats plenty. Dempster can't dominate a game with his stuff he is a location pitcher. And im sorry I don't want to take a chance on a guy who more than likely would get lit up by the likes of Det, NYY, TX, LAA. And let's not forget Dempsters horrible injury proneness. I'm sorry I just don't get how people can sit there and logically argue Zach Greinke is not one of the best pitchers in the game today. I guess all the scouts, writers, announcers, real baseball people that are around it day in day out are wrong. My bad ZG is a 28 year old lucky has been with his best years behind him. Forget his 122/28 K/BB average this year.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 02:41 PM) Why is Greinke considered better than Dempster? Dempster and his fragile self has never been out of the lowly NL central, furthermore has never been out of the national league. Zach on the other hand has won a Cy Young award in the American League and has a great history against the teams we would have to get through to make the playoffs/WS. And that's not saying the night and day difference in quality of stuff the both possess. Ryan Dempster isn't in the same category as ZG and we all know that. Please stop acting like Grienke is just some ho-hum pitcher.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 02:36 PM) Greinke is the only difference maker on the market. Johnson and Garza are a level beneath, don't want either. I'm with you Marty, Grienke or nothing

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 02:37 PM) The competition may have gotten smaller... Per MLBTR The Braves are telling teams they’re shifting their focus away from the rotation to possible bullpen and bench upgrades, Stark reports. Looks like Kenny may have the best 50 yard stare. Sending GMs off with their tails between their legs. Lol jk jk

The competition may have gotten smaller... Per MLBTR The Braves are telling teams they’re shifting their focus away from the rotation to possible bullpen and bench upgrades, Stark reports.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 02:27 PM) I'm good with a Blanton-type to take Humber's starts, and hope for Danks to come back for 7-8 starts. It may work out better than trading for Greinke, short term and long term. KW isn't going to trade for a Blanton type. KW is going big or he's going home. He won't make a move just to supplant mediocre with mediocre.

QUOTE (docsox24 @ Jul 27, 2012 -> 01:16 PM) correct grienke talks are dead Seems like all talks involving Grienke have died down. There hasn't been much mentioned all day. Maybe the Brewers are meeting to see what offer they want to go with. I don't think Kennny is giving up that easily.