DBAHO

QUOTE(daa84 @ Jul 30, 2005 -> 01:13 AM) no, which is why they need to trade huff for prospects. they dont want to spend enough money to lure the FAs who only care about making money, otherwise their dollars spent increases. they do try to sign old vets they think have some more productivity in them for cheap, ie mcgriff travis lee, by trying to get some good producitivity and keep their spending down. but what happens is those guys go onto suck, and productivity decreases. so what do they do? they trade huff for a prospect. for example lets examine what happened when the sox got cotts. they got him as a throw in, they bring him up to the bigs, he breaks out, and they get a terrific year out of a guy they pay 300,000, when a team like cleveland is getting worse production for more money out of a guy like arthur rhodes. if htey can net a guy like anderson, maybe they can get a .300 20 85 season out of him before they have to pay him. Brian Anderson wouldn't play everyday for the D-Rays. Huff is that team's best power hitter. The thing is on Cotts, he struggled in the majors for what almost 2 years (after 1/2 a year in AA), and then he finally broke out. They need to remain at least somewhat competitive over there, and not become a team that can't win more than 50 games in the next few years, otherwise there's just no incentive for a D-Rays fan to buy season tickets and show up to games.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 30, 2005 -> 01:11 AM) There really is a shortage of cities to place a team. Las Vegas has to be at the top. Maybe Portland, that's about it. The one place I think that makes the most sense but I doubt it will ever happen is placing another team in NYC. And if the contract a team, they have to contract at least 2, can't have an odd number of teams in baseball like you can in the other sports. A surpise team that could be up for contraction in the future..... Arizona. They've got major debts over there, and the fans over there just didn't seem that passionate at all about the team, it'll be even worse when the team's major player Gonzo retires. Doubt it will happen though, hence why moving Tampa Bay makes more sense.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jul 30, 2005 -> 01:10 AM) Actually for the situation the DRays are in, they one of the most profitable teams in all of baseball, it is kinda hard to argue with that. Their luxury tax sharing check alone is bigger than their entire payroll. They are raking in money hand over fist right now, strictly from a P&L standpoint. Essentially that is why Pinella is so pissed off, because they have all of this money and aren't spending it. While we're on that discussion right now, how do you think Lloyd McClendon is feeling about how much the Prates owners put into the team's payroll right now?

QUOTE(SoxFan562004 @ Jul 30, 2005 -> 01:06 AM) Yeah, Vegas is a weird thing. I think the NBA having their all-star game there may open some doors, but I know all the major sports are scared s***less of having a team in Vegas. I think Portland also may be in the running if a team moves Portland makes sense as well, would set-up a good rivalry b/w the Mariners and the D-Rays actually. Just depends on a lot of issues really, and which market deserves a new franchise. Either way, with the way things are now, that team will not survive in Tampa Bay.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Jul 30, 2005 -> 01:04 AM) ok what is it that they care abotu??? MONEY. we both agree on that. how do you maximize your money?? spend the least and get the most production out of your players. if you went to lamarr and said hey chuck, you can win 60 games, or you can win 70 games by spending teh same amount of money. what do you think hes gonna do. maximize the productivity with keepiung money the same. anyone who has had any sort of econ class would understand this edit: an econ class isnt even needed...its not a difficult concept The problem is you trade Huff for say prospects and then you want to re-invest that money into the FA market. If you're a free agent looking for a nice contract, do you really want to go to Tampa Bay and be stuck in a losing situation?

QUOTE(Steff @ Jul 30, 2005 -> 01:00 AM) Both are being discussed. If it's relocation, Las Vegas probably makes the most sense for them. You could just have a 4 team AL East and a 5 team AL West, instead of a 5 team AL East and a 4 team AL West.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Jul 30, 2005 -> 12:59 AM) you missed the whole point of my response. how do they maximize those pay checks??? most productivity from players with the least $$ spent on them. what worth is a guy like huff gonna do for them at 7.5 million when hes not even gonna help them win right now? you can make a trade for anderson or bmac who will help you win somewhat less than huff, but will cost a whole lot less. they are trying to maximize their production per dollar. paying huff 7.5 doesnt make sense then. and to the other poster, i doubt huff puts 7 million dollars worth of butts in the seats It depends if they want to trade Huff and re-invest his money into 2 starting pitchers, but Huff is one of the name guys out there, and with the Franchise the way it is right now, they need every good player they can in order to survive.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Jul 30, 2005 -> 12:58 AM) How the f*** did this thread become 6 pages in like an hour. You may start thanking me now.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jul 30, 2005 -> 12:58 AM) The general feeling is that they (the Rays) aren't going to be around in the next few years.. We talking contraction or relocation here?

QUOTE(Al Lopez's Ghost @ Jul 30, 2005 -> 12:55 AM) At least we're not talking about Eric Chavez. Funny how things can change in a matter of months can't it.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Jul 30, 2005 -> 12:52 AM) no, its not that they dont care about winning. they want to make as much money as they can. in order to do that, they want to spend less. but that doesnt mean that they are gonna insist on bad players. they want young good players who will be cheap and effective. youre right that tehy prolly dont care about a ring. but if they can get to .500 with top prospects, then more ppl will come to watch and they will pay the same salaries to the top prospects. so why would they not trade someone like huff who will make 7.5 for a guy like anderson who can in their eyes be effective and cost 7 mil less? oh yeah for spite. makes a whole lot of sense Because right now Huff probably puts butts in seats, and Anderson's no sure All - Star of the future anyway. That's why Chuck LaMar's asking price is probably real high right now. With Baldelli, Crawford, Young and Gomes in the outfield for the next few years, there's no great need for an Anderson anyway.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 30, 2005 -> 12:47 AM) The best part of Jenks getting a shot is it should mean less Viz during key situations. Jenks needs to throw strikes and specifically throw that curve for a strike, not just throw it in the dirt. Why people have been hitting him is they work the count to a fastball count and put a short quick swing on it and let the velocity take care of the rest. Once he can throw that curve for a strike is when he becomes deadly. Its nice that we have such a big lead to let this kid get his feet wet, if we had say a less than 5 game lead he is probably still pitching for the Barons because KW and Ozzie wouldnt of taken a chance on him yet. Viz just makes sense as the long reliever right now. Don't pitch him in back to back games (or many games in a row), and don't put him in pressure situations. He's done a fairly good job in the past month or 2 at least in that role, not in the 8th or 9th inning with the game on the line. (1.32 ERA in July)

QUOTE(Steff @ Jul 30, 2005 -> 12:46 AM) MO honestly.. LaMar isn't giving a s*** about what is or isn't done. He's collecting a paycheck and life is good. It would not shock me one bit to see Tampa not do anything just out of spite. Which is really quite sad, because with their young players in Young, Crawford, Baldelli, Upton, Gomes etc. with the right pieces to go along in that mix, they're a team that can suprise some people. But with ownership, payroll and other factors being considered, you're right that probably is never going to evantuate.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 30, 2005 -> 12:44 AM) What makes you say that, because of his past? Because everyone seems to say he has turned that around. Even so, its take a messed up mentality to close a game. Looks at Hermy, he is as goofy as it gets. But Hermy's had experience in that role before at least. Jenks has been great this year and the Sox have done a great job with nurturing him back from his injury. All I'm saying it's a totally different ballgame come October, and the kid's never been in that situation before. We shouldn't be expecting him to come in every inning and retire all 3 guys with K's.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jul 30, 2005 -> 12:42 AM) Exactly. Wagner is all that is keeping Wade his job. I will be extremely shocked if Wagner moves.. even for AJB. The Philly fans will go nuts if they dealt Wagner and they're only 2.5 games back from a wildcard spot behind a slumping Washington and surging Astros. They're a team I like to make a move up the standings actually IF Jim Thome can get back and start pounding the ball again, and if Jon Lieber can pitch like he did earlier in the year.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Jul 30, 2005 -> 12:40 AM) BAJ HAS ZERO TRADE VALUE!!!!!!!! Soxtalk poster or not. Charlotte closer or not. I mean, yes, the guy can probably net something via trade at the prospect level, but when people start throwing his name around as the centerpiece of a MLB level trade I simply laugh. It's just not fathomable. There's a reason the guy still is where he is, and don't tell me because we have a deep depth chart in the BP. Last I looked, we're having some troubles... i.e. Vizcaino If I'm Chuck LaMar I insist on this guy as a throw in to any deal, he makes perfect sense for them going into next season as a cheap reliever. He deserves a shot with somebody anyway.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 30, 2005 -> 12:41 AM) Limited time up, I think we will see that improve as he gets more comfortable. Plus, his power stuff and that nasty hook is what would look great in the postseason. The power pitchers can dominate in October. We'll see, or he could implode come playoff time. His mental state isn't the most stable of all time.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jul 30, 2005 -> 12:37 AM) I still don't think he deals Wagner. And I don't either. Urbina has really struggled at Citizens giving up the longball, and the only other closer option would be Vicente Padilla, but that's taking away a starter. Wagner is a rare commodity, a great closer who throws heat. The Phillies should just hang onto him and trade for a Gil Meche or somebody like that if they want a starter.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 30, 2005 -> 12:36 AM) Wow. I would rather have Jenks than Baez anyway I think people are just enamored with Jenks's stuff. The fact is he still has control issues, a BAA of .314 (brutal for a reliever) and a 1.71 WHIP. Right now you take Baez over Jenks, but in a few years no way. That's a decision KW has to decide.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 30, 2005 -> 12:32 AM) Its not his 270lb sexyness that we have fallen in love with, its when the radar gun lights up at 100 and the curve hits for a strike. Its also years and years of having guys come up from the minors that barely break 90. We crave HEAT, FILTHY HEAT. LOL But I really dont think that it would take a Bobby Jenks to get any of those deals done. Baj, and a few of our many OF prospects. Tracey has upper 90's velocity. Plus we could add the X-FACTOR to any deal to put it over the top, DINGO!!!!! Philly is not going to accept a Brian Anderson / Ryan Sweeney plus Jeff Bajenaru for Billy Wagner deal. They already have Pat Burrell and Bobby Abreu in the outfield, Ryan Howard could move there next season if he's still stuck behind Jim Thome (which is what all indications point to). They want to win now (well Ed Wade does because his job is on the line). At least throw a Contreras or Hernandez into the deal to get the ball rolling.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 30, 2005 -> 12:31 AM) He also blew 10 saves with Cleveland in 2003. This guy is not who you want on the mound with the game on the line. He's been much better in TB than he was in Cleveland that season. The D-Rays were really the only team to take a chance on him at the end of that off-season, and it's paid off. I wouldn't really like him in a closer role, but I think he'd thrive in a set-up role like Cliff Politte. But he gives you another option and has done the job before.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jul 30, 2005 -> 12:31 AM) Haha, Coots. My new nick-name for him. Cootsy.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jul 30, 2005 -> 12:28 AM) I think you can add Wagner to the pen, and you are set. Cotts to get lefties out is fine with me, in fact I dont even care who you use. All I know is we have the three headed monster of Jenks, Wagner and Hermy at the back end, and that my friends, is f***ing deadly. Cotts shouldn't be used as a lefty specialist. He's better against righties and has been our best 7th inning guy all year long. Don't see any need to have Jenks pitching before Cotts in that type of situation but that's just me.

QUOTE(BlackBetsy @ Jul 30, 2005 -> 12:15 AM) What I like about Sweeney's .289 is that he is showing improvement over the course of the year. It shows that, despite being pushed into a high level at a young age, he is not only holding his own but making the adjustments to improve his game. I wouldn't be surprised to see Sweeney add a bit of doubles power the rest of the year and over the winter. The question is - do you promote Sweeney to Charlotte next year so he can compete against 24 year old top prospects and former major leaguers or do you have him start in Birmingham and let him put up big numbers before promoting him? I let him and Chris Young start at Birmingham next season, there's no need rush those two, with Rowand, Dye and Pods still under contract until the end of 06 or 07.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 30, 2005 -> 12:20 AM) Why would anyone think Baez would be a bullpen upgrade? The guy has 7 blown saves this year. Shingo was 8 for 9 in save chances. If you've been frustrated by Marte, Shingo and Vizcaino, you'll be equally frustrated by Mr. Baez. And on top of that, adding a guy like Embree? You guys must be masochists. Like I said earlier the majority of those blown saves will have come from when he's pitched more than 1 inning. 4/22 - 2.2 IP 5/13 - 2.2 IP 5/17 - 1.1 IP 5/30 - 1 IP 6/4 - 1.2 IP 6/8 - 1.1 IP 7/26 - 2 IP