The Ultimate Champion

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 04:31 PM) I'm not a fan of the SS, but I agree on Fat Squirrel. Everyone should take an annual trip up to the Mars Cheese Castle anyway and you can always grab a sixer of that. I think it's the best New Glarus beer. I don't like Nazis either. Finally something we can agree upon.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 04:13 PM) I think you just proved our point I guess I understand. Miller High Life Light to me is basically water. I'd bathe in it & feed it to my plants if it were as cheap as water. And if it *did* become as cheap as water is I wouldn't hold that fact against it, I would embrace it. BTW I was just now thinking, anyone (like me) who has ever at any point in his/her life owned a bullfrog or turtle as a pet knows that these animals seem to do very well - even thrive - in disgusting muck full of animal waste products and so on. So I wonder if you were to say, take your common Red Ear Slider and introduce him to a tank with Miller High Life Light as the substrate, if the animal would thrive in those conditions as well?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 04:02 PM) Some days you want a hamburger and some days you want a ribeye. Red meat every day???? Try tilapia over fresh asparagus or spinach, cheaper & better. Salmon steaks too OMG f*** yeah.

BTW some of the coolest experiences you can have is finding a homeless guy & his buddy, buying a bunch of cheap beer, and then hanging out with them and drinking, listening to stories and s***. Way cheaper, way better, way more fun and way more enlightening than sitting in the yuppie pub with a couple of yuppies overtipping the semi-attractive waitress/bartender who is currently blowing someone else & really couldn't give a damn.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 03:49 PM) God I haven't had a [good] beer drinking night in a while. It was all Coors Light and Morgan Diets this past weekend, which, when bro-ing out, isn't so bad. I'm going to end up spending like $50 bucks at the candy store on beer now though. Gold. This coming from the guy who says you don't buy things you don't need. You can get smashed, tipsy, feeling good, slightly buzzed, etc. off an inexpensive beer that still breaks down into the same states of matter and still comes out the same holes, but you'd rather spend 3-4 times what you have to? And I AM CRAZY for buying meat at value (sale) prices and freezing it? I think here my good friend is our main source of disagreement with both Dunn and Santana (get prepped for that back tattoo) and it's that you don't understand values. I drink beer every day of my life. If I were to spend more on it then I would be forced to make sacrifices elsewhere.

Also I don't drink b**** drinks. Beer pretty much is it, but I'll drink whiskey or scotch. Don't care for Vodka striahgt & if you have to mix it with something to get it down what's the point? The only acceptable mixed drink is a bloody mary because that qualifies as breakfast.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 03:16 PM) I don't think you've tasted good beer. Don't get me wrong, there are perfectly good times and perfectly good places for the standard budget mop-water you are championing (all beer is to be enjoyed, other than Summer Shandy), but there is absolutely no question that better beer is unquestionably superior in every way, shy of the coveted "number of cans that can be consumed before unconsciousness" category of quality. It's even higher ABV. You don't have to be into Quadruppels and Lambics to appreciate a good American lager, for example. Next time you're bringing beer to a poker game, throw ten bucks at a sixer of Chicago's finest Metropolitan Dynamo lager, and tell me that's s*** in a bucket. I know you like your quality craft beers but TBH if I was going to hang out with you & your buddies at a poker game I'd bring Miller HIgh Life Light to get me started & a sixer of Guinness to keep me going. And I'd probably lose my chips rather quickly but I can assure you the farts would keep coming.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 02:38 PM) I'll drink [almost] anything if it gets me drunk. I'll even drink Samuel Jackson beer. Sam Adams is a quality craftsman.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 02:27 PM) Miller Lite? You have now officially joined my list of Hall of Shame Soxtalk posters along with Marty, TUC and Jose Abreu. Ah, it's the common Beer Snob, Homo Confusialis. I could s*** in a bucket and hit it with a blender, throw some hops in that, and as long as I charge $4 a bottle and put a label on it to make you feel nice and German you'd sip it with your pinky finger up and mutter at all satisfactorily at your s***ty little sweater-wearing poodle "Ahhh good show old chap" etc. etc. etc. High Life & High Life Light, Miller Lite too, are all good, honest beers at tasty prices. Go drink your s***ty turd beer & me a& wite will be outside in the bushes at 3 in the morning pelting your house with eggs & s***-filled paper bags. Good honest behavior at a tasty price.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 12:21 PM) Hey personally I think it's great. I'm just sick of the media spin. I think gay rights has come at a time in our history where so many people have had it rough that they can be more accepting, also, the loss of religion's grasp on a lot of people along with changing interpretations of what God really meant at this or that point has made things a lot easier. There's that play they do in colleges across the nation about the gay kid who IIRC was tied to a tree and beaten to death, there's a lot in the media, etc. there's a lot out there to try to diffuse hatred. But I just hate the media crap & don't pay attention to it. I hate these blowhard media cocksuckers who want to tell everyone how to think and act, and never shut up about it, kind of like posters here ATM who refuse to give Ervin Santana his just due. I get that it's an historic moment for gay athletes but at the same time all the bulls*** talk about it just makes me want to kill people, not rejoice. I also would like to quote this post as both groundbreaking and historic in it's own sense, as you will find at least two terms in here which are not covered by the language filter (nor should they be) which can be used freely by all and should be used freely by all unless they are used in a manner which I would disagree with.

Of course you can have the coffee, EMinor. Same goes for Iowa Sox fan. And Marty. The rest of you? NO COFFEE FOR YOU!!! We're making some progress here. Slow and steady. By the end of this thread wite is going to have "SANTANA" tattooed across his back in old english script just like gangbangers & wannabe fighters do. I also agree that if we can get something pretty good for DeAza now we should consider it, however he may stand to gain a lot more value in a full season of AB while playing LF. He is literally coming off a terrible defensive campaign during which he still stole IIRC 20 bases and hit for some power. He may actually be one of the "breakout" candidates which this thread exists to predict (which it was doing well at until other people decided to hijack it, forcing me to come to the defense) in that DeAza could IMO realistically hit .280 with 15 HR and 20 SB while playing a halfway decent LF and drawing some walks too. That kind of player would have a whole lot more value around the deadline than now, and also, that type of player would be much more in demand than even a halfway decent Dunn (unlikely as it may be) given that no matter how you slice it, Dunn isn't really a "position" player.

Gillaspie has what 5 years control remaining? Lefty bat, can play the corner IF, hit 13 HR in his first full season with a .245 BA and an OBP 60 points higher which shows he can take some walks. He's more valuable to the Sox future than Dunn is by a mile. If you fail to understand that then I don't know what else to say. Gillaspie at 26 has a shot at becoming much better while Dunn at 34 is only going to decline. Anyone who would just dump Gillaspie doesn't get it. He has future value, Dunn does not.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 12:20 PM) So since the last time we signed an expensive mid-30's FA, it turned out so bad you want him to get hurt, the answer is we should do it again with Ervin Santana, even though the team is in a much worse position to compete? No. If you don't want to sign Santana, fine. If you think the draft pick and slot $$$ is too good to pass up then I understand. What I don't understand is how Santana is too old to sign but Dunn, much older at 34, needs to play. Can't have both. BTW EMinor, have you ever thought about how much better this roster would function without Dunn around? Have you taken time to truly consider what kind of player Viciedo could become this year if given every opportunity? Have you considered DeAza's offensive value over the years, and specifically how valuable he could be if only asked to play LF and given a full season of ABs? Also, did you know that Connor Gillaspie has a little upside to offer? Why don't you cross the gravel line, come on over to this side of the field for a while. It's nice over here. Have a cup of coffee. Umm, coffee. Great. Oh gee, looky here what I found! Why don't you sit down and have a slice? So tell me EMinor, have you ever considered a White Sox world without Adam Dunn?

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 12:07 PM) The comparison isn't exact, but it's definitely there. This hasn't happened in over a hundred years of major organized sports for a reason, not just because gay people are independently secretive. Because there has, historically, been active aggression against the group. Eventually, sentiments change and someone is the first person to definitively defy the ugly history of the sport. There is no denying the comparison in that respect. Jackie Robinson was certainly more momentous for the reasons you mentioned, but to deny the significance of this event is, in my personal opinion, terribly offensive. Hey personally I think it's great. I'm just sick of the media spin. I think gay rights has come at a time in our history where so many people have had it rough that they can be more accepting, also, the loss of religion's grasp on a lot of people along with changing interpretations of what God really meant at this or that point has made things a lot easier. There's that play they do in colleges across the nation about the gay kid who IIRC was tied to a tree and beaten to death, there's a lot in the media, etc. there's a lot out there to try to diffuse hatred. But I just hate the media crap & don't pay attention to it. I hate these blowhard media cocksuckers who want to tell everyone how to think and act, and never shut up about it, kind of like posters here ATM who refuse to give Ervin Santana his just due. I get that it's an historic moment for gay athletes but at the same time all the bulls*** talk about it just makes me want to kill people, not rejoice.

I assume the Sox would take out policies on every sizable contract. That Dunn contract was one of the largest in Sox history at the time. I mean come on, it's JR, the contract is covered. And again the injury point is more to illustrate his trade value and proper expectations. DeAza shouldn't lose playing time because of him, neither should Viciedo, neither should any potentially useful bench player or spot starter such as Gillaspie who probably stands to loose the most, nor should the Sox lose versatility on the bench. They have a 4-man bench most likely which includes Paulie who can stand there at 1B a couple days per week. At least without Dunn the Sox could have Gillaspie, Keppinger and take one of Danks/MIF. DeAza in LF could slide to CF when Eaton needs a day off & someone could cover LF, and when Avi needs the day off maybe Gillaspie or Viciedo are out there. Ideally the Sox would have both a MIF and Danks as a CF backup but that's probably not happening. Edit: I actually forgot about the extra catcher. Jeez the bench is in a bad spot. Sox need to dump Dunn and make at least one trade on top of it.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 11:42 AM) Because it's a barrier that you don't think should be there, and it's weakening, soon to break. That's why you should care. That's why you should care about Jackie Robinson, too, even if you're white. I think it's already been broken, maybe not as publicly, but this Sam guy isn't going to be the first gay NFL player by a long shot. And I have no idea who else before him was gay, nor do I care to know, nor is it any of my business. And I really don't like comparing this to Jackie Robinson either. There is no gay baseball league where hundreds of equally talented gay players are held back; there are probably at least a few gay players in MLB who would get signed anyway due to their talent level but choose not to speak out because they want to focus on the game, not be the centerpiece of a media circus. Very few people, even the most ignorant ones, in this society are going to call for lynchings anymore. The gay issue is a religious issue, nothing else IMO, and the political hurdles gays face are a response to the thoughts of stupid religious voters who think about God's will when they cast a ballot. This is completely different from anything blacks had to endure here. Really, gays IMO have it probably easier than anyone, not that it has come easily, but blacks, native/indigenous peoples, Asians thrown in internment camps, women having no voice or voting rights and having to accept abusive husbands and live more or less as servants, etc. it's been really bad for them, and really no one got it worse than the natives here: forced off their land which they didn't even claim ownership of like we do, forced into one-sided treaties that were then broken, forced onto reservations, given no holidays except a completely historically inaccurate one called Thanksgiving which is a football holiday that teams like the Redskins play on which promotes gluttony and wastefulness. Gays for the most part have had to keep secrets. And I'm not diminishing the struggles they have had, and it's great that some things finally are changing, but let's not make the Jackie Robinson comps here please. And as long as there are morons who believe they should be able to control the intimate lives of other people through the political process there are still going to be problems.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 11:29 AM) So you think the best thing that can happen to Adam Dunn is for him to get seriously injured? That's pretty f***ing messed up. Frankly, I could care less if Adam Dunn is on the roster. I've said that before. But as a fan, I'd prefer the Sox recoup some money than none, and I sure as hell hope he doesn't get seriously hurt. You know exactly what I mean but you're spinning it. An injury yields roster space and lots of $$$ back. No trade can do that. That alone describes the worth of Dunn. I don't want the guy to have to sit out the year because he's hurt, I just don't want him on the team. He can play for anyone else, I don't care, as long as it's not here.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 11:03 AM) I hate that people are so dismissive of this event, as though it means nothing. There's a reason there has never been an out player on a major team sport, and it's not because there aren't gay people throughout all four of them. It's really monumental that we've progressed to the point that a gay player can be who he is in such an historically intolerant arena. You can say "what's the big deal?" because you don't care that the guy, personally, is gay. But that's akin to saying "who cares?" to Jackie Robinson because you don't care that he's black. Nobody has to care about the identifier of the person breaking the barrier, but it is ABSOLUTELY important that the barrier is being broken. It represents societal change, and change within the sport(s). I'm very glad KW has vocalized the right position on the issue. It can't be expressed how important it is that organizational figureheads comment in support of Sam. And it's not a political issue, it's a human issue. I agree that comments like those made by Kenny Williams are great for gay people & gay rights. It's great for those who the issue is about but the resulting media circus is almost Dunn-like in its repulsiveness. I get what you mean by the not caring part, but really, if you're not gay why should you care? I support gay rights, I have no problem with gay athletes or gay co-workers or whatever, but I don't march in parades, and when I see a gay person I just go on with my day. Not everything needs to become a circus and IMO it is impossible for something like that not to become a circus. In fact if you've heard one thing out of the corporate media these last several days you can pretty easily see one great reason why gay athletes don't want to come out.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 13, 2014 -> 08:20 AM) Ervin Santana does not play for the White Sox. It would require bringing him in from outside the organization while also giving up a second round pick (which is something Rick Hahn has said he will not do). Adam Dunn is already in the organization and is signed for one more year and the Sox are going to try and save money before they outright release him. Do you not see the difference or should I spell it out with blocks and pictures? Stop bringing up Ervin Santana. You may as well suggest they sign Edgar Martinez or Randy Johnson because those two options have a more realistic chance of happening. The Sox are obligated to *PAY* one. They are not obligated to *PLAY* either. Is there something in Dunn's contract that says he needs a roster spot and PA otherwise the Sox have to pay him more or something? No. No there's not. No. Here's something else to chew on: Let's say Dunn gets hurt in ST, blows out his knee or something and is out for the season. The Sox would recoup a good amount of that $15M in insurance, they'd gain a 25-man roster spot *AND* a 40-man roster spot also since they could put him on the 60-DL all year. That *ALONE* represents better than anything Dunn can bring back in trade. Go ahead and even try to dispute that. When the best thing that can happen for one of your players is a season-ending injury that frees up roster spots and allows you take get back cash through your insurance company then you're looking at a pretty s***ty, worthless player doesn't deserve PA at the expense of any other position player we have on this team who is reasonably young and is controllable for at least 2 more seasons.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 12, 2014 -> 07:18 PM) (Who was this talking about?) http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/02/dodg...e-to-terms.html One of the recent defectors, a no-hit SS without speed. 23 & needs significant time in the minors. Scouts wonder if he can post a .220 BA or .300 OBP in MLB. Sounds a lot like a poor man's Leury to me. Not that we would want to but we could probably buy out Leury's 3 arb & 1-2 FA years for about half that amount.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 12, 2014 -> 09:11 PM) Alejandro De Aza could just as easily seirously injure a leg again next year, he has a history of doing so. Why are you discounting that?! None of you guys can refute my facts, you guys are just trolling now. And hating too. Except Marty.

Also I should point out that Ervin Santana on a 3-year deal during the age of 31-33 somehow is too old whereas 34-year-old Dunn needs to play so we can maybe save a few pennies. Ha. At least pick one or the other.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 12, 2014 -> 07:52 PM) To be equally fair to what they're likely to produce next year we should count a full season against De Aza for the year he destroyed his leg. It's just about as relevant as what you just posted to what they'll do next year. Yeah let's just go ahead and pretend 2011 never happened & also pretend that DeAza has been anywhere near as bad as Dunn has been. BTW you factor out Dunn's 2011 completely and guess what? Dunn 2012-13: .211/.326/.455/.781 as a DH DeAza with the Sox: .279/.343/.420/.763 as an OF with 60 SB in that span DeAza's far superior even if you hack off what was at the time the single worst season in MLB history, which is completely unfair to discount especially with an all-or-nothing power hitter going into his age 34 season with a slow enough bat already. Dunn could very easily have a similar season next year. If he declines any more than he already has he won't take the field for anyone in 2015.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Feb 12, 2014 -> 07:00 PM) Dunn is the problem not De Aza. Adam Dunn with the White Sox: .197/.317/.405/.722 Alejandro DeAza with the White Sox: .279/.343/.420/.763

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Feb 12, 2014 -> 07:37 PM) De Aza is one of the worst baserunners I've ever seen and his defense is absolutely atrocious. You're telling me those aren't problems? Wait, are we trying to win next year? No, they're not problems because 1) they should diminish this year, and 2) he has positive trade value which if given the proper amount of playing time could climb into the realm of a halfway decent return.