The Ultimate Champion

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 12, 2014 -> 07:40 AM) 10 for everyone In 5 years when we go back & look at this thread you're going to look pretty funny having such a rosy opinion. Of course when your head is full of imported beer & has been bouncing around inside of a washing machine it's probably pretty easy to see so many stars here.

I think this team also is probably going to run out 2-3 All-Stars on paper each year. I.E. maybe they don't always get in but Sale & Abreu will be there all the time, Q will make an appearance or two, and a few other interesting guys like Garcia or Micah Johnson or Beck/EJohnson will have a shot in good years. Not loaded with big names but probably a few guys who are good. I think we have the makings of a quality core. Also I have to say I like Eaton a lot but I just see him having a rough time staying on the field. I'd grade him higher otherwise, because I think he will be a difference maker when he is out there & healthy.

0 = never plays in the Bigs 1 = cup of coffee/outright bust 2 = useful role player or specialist for a couple years 3 = very useful bench/backup/utility/MR option 4 = borderline starting position player OR high quality setup man OR 5th starter, several seasons in the bigs 5 = average starting position player all around OR quality closer OR #4 type of starter, several seasons in the bigs 6 = above average starting position player all around OR dynamite closer OR #3 starter 7 = generally an All-Star level position player OR #2 type of starter 8 = perennial All-Star position player OR true ace SP 9 = HOF candidate Jose Abreu = 8 Keon Barnum = 6 Marcus Semien = 5 Micah Johnson = 6 Carlos Sanchez = 3 Leury Garcia = 4 Connor Gillaspie = 5 Matt Davidson = 2 Avisail Garcia = 7 Dayan Viciedo = 5 Adam Eaton = 5 Jordan Danks = 3 Jared Mitchell = 2 Trayce Thompson = 5 Chris Sale = 9 Jose Quintana = 7 Erik Johnson = 6 Chris Beck = 6 Scott Snodgress = 5 Daniel Webb = 4 Nate Jones = 5 Andre Rienzo = 4 Not ranking any 1's or 0's or anyone I don't know much about

It's March 12, 2019.... predict what all these young guys will end up looking on this date (regardless of what team they happen to be playing on). Here's a scale to use: 0 = never plays in the Bigs 1 = cup of coffee/outright bust 2 = useful role player or specialist for a couple years 3 = very useful bench/backup/utility/MR option 4 = borderline starting position player OR high quality setup man OR 5th starter, several seasons in the bigs 5 = average starting position player all around OR quality closer OR #4 type of starter, several seasons in the bigs 6 = above average starting position player all around OR dynamite closer OR #3 starter 7 = generally an All-Star level position player OR #2 type of starter 8 = perennial All-Star position player OR true ace SP 9 = HOF candidate Here are the names, no particular order: Jose Abreu Keon Barnum Rangel Ravelo Marcus Semien Micah Johnson Carlos Sanchez Leury Garcia Clelius Rondon Connor Gillaspie Matt Davidson Trey Michalscaweersdfski Avisail Garcia Dayan Viciedo Adam Eaton Jordan Danks Jared Mitchell Trayce Thompson Keenyn Walker Adam Engel Jacob May --- Chris Sale Jose Quintana Erik Johnson Chris Beck Scott Snodgress Daniel Webb Nate Jones Feel free to add more names to this as I don't want to type anymore. Also if you notice I haven't added any catchers because unlike Adam Dunn's entire Sox career this thread was not intended to be a joke.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 11, 2014 -> 08:28 AM) The clubhouse must absolutely hate Dunn. He must be miserable and just a jerk to everyone and he doesn't help young players at all because ALL HE TELLS THEM TO DO IS STRIKE OUT. Calm down. You'd swear you perform Satanic or Voodoo rituals trying to remove Dunn from the roster. It's not going to happen. Oh, and on what planet is Dayan Viciedo a better player than Adam Dunn? Planet Rebuild, the same planet where players like Adam Eaton, Matt Davison, Marcus Semien, etc. reside. Michael Saunders as well since he's a current topic of discussion. None of those players have the career stats Dunn has, all of them however have a pulse and provide some shred of hope for a better future. Unlike Dunn. And no, I don't do voodoo and so on. Not because I'm afraid of that stuff or anything, just because I don't know how. But if I did you are damn skippy hippie that I'd curse the s*** out of Dunn so bad you'd be like damn that motherf***er is cursed. But instead he just curses me with his s***ty play and overall uselessness. Maybe he's cursed the Sox into being too cheap and stupid to cut him. Or maybe Santeria Ozzie put the curse of Dunn on the Sox in anger with KW, which is a far more plausible scenario BTW than any one involving Dunn being good enough to allow the Sox to get out of the remainder of his salary midseason OR to recoup any prospect of real value.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Mar 10, 2014 -> 10:17 PM) Absolutely complaining. Every 2/3 game makes Robin trot him out there to go on another 1/23 streak. Every 2/3 game where he runs into a ball or two makes Dunn apologists like you point fingers at Dunn haters in a condescending manner and also, even worse, gives you hope that he's figuring something out. Let the haters hate. He's paid $15 million dollars on a team representing a blue-collar part of town, bats in the middle of the order and sucks. How can you tell people not to be upset with him during a 1/20 streak? It's ok to say he sucks. He's ours for another year- let the people boo if they want. YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS Sox are about to take 50 cents on the dollar for one of two better players in DeAza and Viciedo, just because they are too cheap and/or stupid to admit their mistake and cut Dunn's fat ass off the roster. I mean we're talking about Michael Saunders here for f***s sake. My God. Yes he has talent, so do all our other K machine OF, but if either of Saunders/Viciedo becomes a true offensive weapon it's going to be Viciedo. And Hahn is thinking about dumping the guy because there's no place to play him and DeAza both. And of course you'll get the Paulie haters saying we're only having this problem because Paulie is here. Paulie is going to help the kids that matter. Dunn does nothing for anyone, just takes up ABs. MLB IP & PA to probably 98% or more of the players in this organization are rewards worth fighting for and laying out for ala Micah Johnson or crashing into walls for, etc. like Mitchell or taking lumps for like Eaton, etc. OTOH Dunn's PA are a gift, totally undeserved, totally unnecessary, and one which further hamstrings the organization by forcing the dumping of one player or the setback of at least one if not two other players. When the Sox rolled out the red carpet for that lazy bastard they should have slathered that thing in peanut butter flavored glue and filled the clubhouse with grizzly bears. I hope this guy breaks a leg & goes on the DL. HATE HATE HATE DUNN

Dunn for Montero striaght-up, full salary relief could be a nice deal for both teams. I'd take Montero because why not? Mariners nixed Viciedo for Franklin proposed by Hahn, so goes the rumor. M's want more but want Viciedo. Add to the above, another 3 way: Beckham to Jays Jays spect(s) to Mariners Franklin + Montero + Noesi to the Sox Viciedo + Dunn + Rienzo to the Mariners plus $14M cash Franklin is your new starting 2B until Alexei goes, then he moves to SS; Montero works with the KISS DEMON & gets his s*** under control, and at least he's a big bat candidate. Noesi to the pen, he's your real rebound guy because he's under team control; when Alexei goes, Semien comes up.

On our side: This post has been edited by the Soxtalk staff to remove objectionable material. Soxtalk encourages a free discussion between its members, but does not allow personal attacks, threats, graphic sexual material, nudity, or any other materials judged offensive by the Administrators and Moderators. Thank you. Alejandro DeAza Dayan Viciedo Matt Lindstrom Andre Rienzo? Other On thiers: Jesus "El Burriot Gigante" Montero Hector "PLEASE Put Me with COOP" Noesi Nick "GET ME THE f*** OUT OF HERE" Franklin Dustin "Me or Beckham?" Ackley Other Hahn's been talking with the Mariners, and both clubs have said that there have been deals they could have made but are in ST wait and see mode. We're making a deal before ST is through. So put together the package that ends up changing hands. I want Noesi & definitely demand Montero if Viciedo is involved. Ackley is interesting, but more as a 2B. Franklin costs the most but Hahn wants him, and he makes an Alexei trade easier. Blue Jays can get Beckham in multiple scenarios involving the Mariners shipping us an infielder.

QUOTE (Tex @ Feb 17, 2014 -> 07:13 AM) I'd like to point out that the violent anti-gay groups are not really religious. Not sure which groups you're talking about but go check stormfront's little community. They're down with the J-Dawg. Also, trying to prevent any group of people from having what amounts to basic human rights in Western first world society, if it's not "violent" is pretty f***ed up no matter how you want to look at it. Hating people just because they're gay is a lot like hating people who just want to dump Dunn's contract and play our OFers and clear a roster spot, it's just absolutely absurd and wrong in every way.

Hahn should call up Cashman and offer Q to the Yankees for 3 of their top prospects. Then when Cashman says he'll get the paperwork ready Hahn can laugh in his face and say, "I was just kidding you dumbf***."

M.A.R.T.Y. 34 My Automated Rebuttal To You 3+4 Sox 3 letters Talk 4 letters What's really going on here HATERS???

Also, this is a fitting representation of my attitude ATM:

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Feb 16, 2014 -> 11:33 PM) He was referring to Marty. Let the Marty alter ego suspicion begin once again! #TheUltimateMarty2014 How do you know that Marty isn't a secret Google project developed by "friends" of SoxTalk involving an android programmed to rebut the entire SoxTalk community as a means of progressing discussion & driving sales, and *I* just happen to know a crack that allows me to get inside there and use the program to my advantage? I mean really, how would you know?

It's probably being held up on both ends. Q's side should wait to see what he projects to receive as a 1st year arb player because that will probably scale a lot better than what the Sox would want to buy him out at in year 1 of arb. But yeah, after you get a handle on what he's going to be starting at in arb then you definitely want to try to extend him because in the arb process things can get really out of control.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Feb 17, 2014 -> 06:26 AM) I can honestly say watching the Olympic curling match-up between Great Britain and China at the moment has more intrinsic excitement. Even caulfield's giving me the pooper now. Jesus. Why can't we all just get along? (By agreeing with me?) Haters.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 16, 2014 -> 07:58 PM) I think "intelligent" would have been more accurate. So I'm stupid AND I lack creativity now? Obviously you guys haven't been reading my posts correctly because otherwise you'd know how wrong you are. You guys are mean. Of course you're haters. Haters are mean. Haters don't read, haters don't think about the feelings of non-haters when they speak/type, they like to be meanies, they don't do anything but hate. So I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 16, 2014 -> 07:58 PM) And? The Yankees are the worst in baseball at maximizing assets. Right Marty? No.... I didn't say that.

BTW I think Robles is the real darkhorse here. I think Veal and Leesman are the best bets to fight it out for the specialist role, with Robles and Purcey definitely on the radar, but since Leesman has options and the others have MiLB contracts, Veal would have to be a clear loser to not make the team. If things are pretty close between all then he's in Chicago. But it's not hard to imagine Veal's control eluding him when under pressure in Spring, and if so, then he's just taken off the roster & waived.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 16, 2014 -> 07:40 PM) I can't see Surkamp as anything but a long reliever if he were in the pen. Me either. If he has to come in for one batter, what's he going to get ahead with? Probably the fastball. When he gets in trouble with the count, what's he going to use? Probably the fastball. The curve can look really nice & the change can look good too but he'd need to have those things working to be effective, so at the very least he'd probably have to warm up for longer which would make it more difficult to use him situationally when a guy needs to be ready like now.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 16, 2014 -> 07:47 PM) You could have just said "I don't have anything creative in reply" and gotten the message across just as well. I thought it was creative....

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Feb 16, 2014 -> 07:38 PM) The Yankees turned Mariano Rivera, Alex Rodriguez, Derick Jeter, Robinson Cano, Curtis Granderson, Nick Swisher, Rafael Soriano, and Vernon Wells into nothing. Every one of those guys but Granderson & Wells has at least one WS ring with the Yankees.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 16, 2014 -> 06:39 PM) I believe there are parents who have taught their 5 year olds how to handle money better than you. "No honey, you only have $1, you can't buy both candy bars." Any smart parent will then teach his child about the need for a credit card, and any good banker will then provide him one. s***, your f***in 2 year old has a cell, why not a VISA? Then he can spend all his cash on candy & just charge the f***in phone bill. Go Murica. I bet you would back that too because I bet you could skew a 28% APR into something positive just like you tried to skew Adam Dunn's Sox career into something positive.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Feb 16, 2014 -> 01:23 PM) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias I was actually kidding about that but I do think they are going to try to pull the trigger on something Dunn-related if they don't get a good deal for one of their OFers. No way are all 3 of these guys on the roster together & Dunn is the one it makes the most sense to jettison, especially with Paulie already taking a bench spot. But yeah I doubt there would be any crying around Sox HQ if Dunn were to say, blow out a knee or something and have to miss the season. Insurance money FTW.

Honestly I would be concerned about Surkamp's ability to consistently retire hitters out of the pen given how much he'd have to use his fastball (would be tough for him to find the offspeed stuff, I'd expect something similar to the issues McCarthy had with us in the pen, except probably worse) HOWEVER if he could get lefties out as a specialist then it would be great if he could make them team & also be a long man. If you get both your lefty specialist & your long man in Surkamp then factoring in Boggs, Belisario, Lindstrom, Downs you're looking at 2 spots left, meaning the Sox could take both Webb and a position player or (more likely) Webb and then the best *reliever* in camp, not just the best lefty reliever. And in that same scenario, should Paulino crack as the 5th starter, Rienzo could be a MR option who, like Surkamp, could also be used for longer periods to eat innings if necessary. I'm not much of a believer but I admit that Surkamp makes things very interesting & I do hope he works out for us because of it.

1) LF is very much contingent on a DFA (Dunn) or trade (DeAza or Viciedo) right now. I have a very hard time believing the Sox are ACTUALLY going to risk making Viciedo or DeAza bench or platoon players. The only OF I see as really being in a battle is Jordan Danks looking to claim a spot on the bench, and IMO that spot is already his IF the Sox can carry an OF. So not really even a battle, and his situation is probably contingent on DFAs or trades. 2) 3B is Gillaspie right now. Hahn all offseason since the acquisition of Davidson has said that Davidson has to improve more to be ready. Davidson himself has stated that he's fine going down to the minors because he just wants to get to the Majors and stay there. I think the expectation is Gillaspie on Opening Day and Davidson later on during the year. IMO the "battle" is more of a Buddy Bell challenge promotion, and Davidson only goes north if he looks so amazingly great that there's no way to send him down. So that's not really a battle either IMO.