ChiSox59
-
Posts
17,279 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
55
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Calendar
Posts posted by ChiSox59
-
-
3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:
If the Mets don't have room for this guy there are 28 other teams that he could be traded to.
Right - which is quite literally why we're having this discussion...
-
2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:
I don't believe the White Sox should give up a Madrigal-level player for Nimmo either and yeah, I think the Mets should be holding onto this guy. Former first round pick who has had a successful season early in his career - that's a piece you don't let go without a strong return.
This is where the failure of all of the secondary parts of the White Sox's system comes into play. All the good players we'd want to trade for - we don't have the ammunition. It's Madrigal/Vaughn or a bunch of guys who aren't worth much. We dont' have anyone around #75 who could be the centerpiece of a decent but not overwhelming package.
The part you're kind of ignoring in your calculus is how the Mets are going to get all these guys to play. Conforto and McNeil both take corner spots. McNeil may occasionally spell Cano at 2B, in which case I assume Smith is taking reps in the OF. Then you have Cespedes. Unless they plan to put McNeil at 3B regularly, and put Lowrie (who they just gave a 2/$20M deal to last winter) on the bench - but McNeil is not an everyday IF. Something has to give. Maybe that something is trading McNeil or Conforto instead of Nimmo, but really they have to do something.
With respect to the Sox system - ya the 2019 season was pretty shitty for Sox prospects not named Robert/Madrigal/Stiever. I do think we still have some names that have some real trade value outside of the top 4 - specifically Dunning, Walker, Stiever - and to a lesser extent Rutherford and Adolfo. I think there are pieces there to make a move, but I understand your reluctance. I also think there is some merit to giving the Rutherford/Adolo/Basabe trio one more year to try to claim RF for the future without blocking them with a long term RF via trade isn't the worst idea. Which is where 1 year stop gaps via trade or FA, or even a guy like Mazara start to make more sense. I still have decently high hopes for Adolfo - the other two not so much. If someone like Nimmo, or Gregory Polonco, or David Dahl cost too much - I prefer they just go the stop gap route.
-
8 minutes ago, Thad Bosley said:
Well, what’s not clear to me at this point is what the “three year plan” is gonna be IF we resign Abreu, sign JDM, AND bring up Vaughn?
I, for one, am very excited about Vaughn’s potential, so I’m not ready just yet to send him off packing in a trade just trying to make room for two DH types.
So who plays where and when come 2021 if we have all three on the roster?
Another in a long list of reasons why Grandal is better fit than JDM.
-
5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:
I don't think I'd do anything resembling like that if I were in the Mets position unless I had some really bad medical news about him. There should be way better deals out there for that player if I want to move him.
Yah, I have a hard time seeing anyone give up a top 50 prospect for a guy who has been hurt for large portion of 2/3 seasons he's been a big leaguer, and only has 3 years of arbitration control left. He's a fantastic fit for the White Sox, but he'd obviously still be a roll of the dice with his injury history. Perhaps the Mets would prefer to just hold onto him - totally reasonable to think that. Hard to really handicap what BVW will do, but based on what I just described a few minutes ago, I think its also reasonable that he will be available this offseason for the right price. If the "right price" to the Mets starts with Madrigal and they won't get off it, I'd rather just trade for someone else. I think Madrigal is considerably more valuable than Nimmo, and I've been one of the loudest proponents for acquiring him, and believe I was was the first to start mentioning Nimmo here months and months ago before 80% of the board jumped on the wagon.
-
22 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:
They already have a 1B in Alonso, but sure...the asking price would definitely start with someone in that tier.
If I’m the Mets, I’m not going to happy with Stiever, Walker and one more piece just because the odds of one of those 3-4 lesser pieces ever having a 4 fWAR season of their own aren’t great.
We don’t (currently) have that high upside minor leaguer we can actually afford to part with.
And if Stiever’s that good...we need him more than the Mets, who will get a huge potential bounty when they option off Syndegaard, deGrom or Stroman to the highest bidders.
Start with....ya, I can agree with that.
Mets have a crowded OF situation. Conforto, McNeil both need to play the corners. Sure, McNeil can play the IF, but he's not very good at it and they already have plenty of guys to play 2B and 3B. Then you have Dom Smith who will get some time in LF and RF as he is completely blocked at 1B now. Then you have Cespedes under contract for $29.5 million in 2020, so they may want to try to work him in as well (though I doubt they are counting on him). Point being - they're pretty jammed up in the OF, and they're very lefty heavy. I am not saying they're going to get out there looking to get rid of Nimmo, but he definitely makes sense as someone they could move.
I do think Stiever/Dunning + Walker/Rutherford + back end top 30 guy gets you pretty close to a deal. Obviously they would prefer Steiver and Walker to Dunning/Rutherford, but just throwing some names out there that could make sense.
-
11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:
And there goes Madrigal or something like that (since the Mets can't exactly use Vaughn), so now I also need Gennett at a minimal price to cover my 2b spot.
I don't think Brandon Nimmo is going to require a top 40 prospect in the game that is basically MLB ready. We'll have to give up a couple pieces we'd rather keep to get Nimmo or a guy like Nimmo, but its not going to be from Robert-Madrigal-Vaugh-Cease-Kopech, etc., group.
-
Still on the Mookie Betts bit, I see.
-
38 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:
Then they can just trade for him.
Sure, but he's a much more attractive target as a signing rather than giving up assets to acquire. Probably wouldn't cost a ton, but Boston isn't going to just give him away. He also has another opt out after next season in his current deal, so another reason why that route is less than ideal.
-
1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:
Yes, a Boston radio guy I believe is the source. What is even more interesting is later in his article he went through the Sale trade, and supposedly the White Sox were offered Lopez, Giolito and Robles for Sale, but wanted Trea Turner added. He also mentioned the Sox were trying to add Devers to the Boston deal, but that didn't happen.
I will take Moncada and Kopech over Gio, Lopez and Robles, especially when we used those negotiations to acquire 2 of 3 pieces discussed in a different trade not a significantly less valuable piece anyway.
Hahn takes a lot of crap around here, but he hit an absolute home runs on Sale, Eaton and Quintana trades. A++. Not directed at you DA, but people say its easy to trade elite players - well, go look at what the Marlins got for Yelich, and get back to me.
-
1
-
-
19 hours ago, Balta1701 said:
I don’t believe that at all, but if he is expected to be ready opening day then he should take the best 1 year deal he can get, because he won’t have a QO attached to him if he has a good year. If he thinks he’s healthy, 1/$3 is a better deal for him than 2/$30.
Woah, took that one to the extreme. No sane person would take 1/$3M over 2/$30M. No one
-
6 hours ago, poppysox said:
My understanding has been that a large percentage of players receiving qualifying offers have opted out. Something like 90%. Since I have always thought that having a qualifying offer attached reduced a players desirability and therefore value...kind of a wash if we really want that player.
Huh? Most players who receive QOs didn’t even have the ability to opt out.
-
11 hours ago, greg775 said:
I must be an exception. I've always loved Avi and of course want him back. There have been absolutely no rumblings that that could occur. My hope is he continues to fare well in Tampa.
He's a FA, Greg. Chances are he is not with Tampa again next season.
18 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:Not pushing for him just don't see him as a bad option if it comes to saving money or prospects.
I hear ya. I guess if the Sox go balls to the walls and sign Cole/Strasburg, Wheeler, Grandal, Moustakas, and re-sign Abreu, sure I'd be fine with Avi out in RF. But even in that scenario I'd probably just prefer to roll with Leury in RF. I just don't really see many realistic scenarios that involve Avisail Garcia coming back to the White Sox this offseason.
-
1
-
-
59 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:
So you completely ignore the idea of Moose and Grandal being the other LH options while thinking a 1 year stop gap in RF has to be LH ? Avi might be no worse defender in RF than Ozuna or Dickerson or even Gardner if you take his arm into consideration and familiarity with our park. Hell TB even played him in CF for 11 games . You need to get over the non tendering because he wasn't very good thing. 2 of the last 3 years he's been good. That means a lot more than anything earlier in his career. He is hitting more fly balls than ever and is also a better fielding now than before.
Feel free to keep pushing for Avi if you'd like. Its a waste of time. The Sox aren't going to bring Avi back, and would be happy to wager just about anything on that.
-
10 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:
You think he won't get a pittance in 2020 ? No one is arguing that letting him go wasn't the right thing to do.
Didn't over expose him to RHP ? Have you seen his splits against RHP for 2019 ? They were pretty good. How can you argue that he isn't remotely close to a fit when you readily accept other cheap stop gaps.
Yes, I am aware of Avi's splits against RHP in 2019. He had a good season. He was often platooned against high end righties (ie: not overexposed).
Beyond the fact that we've had Avi on this team for 5 season and then non-tendered him because he isn't very good, Avi literally checks none of the boxes for RF in 2020. He bats right handed and is a below average defender = not an option. Its really that simple. Whoever the Sox acquire to play RF, they're going to be switch hitter or bat lefty. The only way I see something else occurring is if Abreu somehow signs elsewhere, and/or someone like Ozuna completely overplays their market and ends up in our lap on 3/$45M type deal.
Based on the projected roster construction, if the Sox sign a 1 year stop gap RF, they're going to be lefty. If we trade for RF, they're going to bat left handed. The Sox are not going to go into next year Moncada as the only left handed hitter in the everyday lineup.
-
1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:
Backed out of? Sorry if I don't trust a random internet stranger with $1000.
Hilarious you think it was unreasonable for me not to trust you to pay $1000 just because. Likely you would have disappeared and created a new username. I have the Nats at 12-1 to win it all - bet with a reputable sportsbook that will pay me out immediately at the conclusion of the series. Why wouldn't I bet with an internet stranger instead?!?!?! Gee, I wonder why.
What goal post did I move? My point is the Dodgers were not very high on Grandals defense - this was not a secret. While people cite hes the best defensive catcher in baseball using publicly available metrics, clearly the team (and league in general) don't agree with those metrics. If they did he wouldnt have had a hard time getting more than 60 million dollars - which was his top offer.
While I am not doubting that the Dodgers weren't enamored with Grandal's defense (they did sit him in the playoffs last year), he basically had the yips at point. Its also quite important to note the presence of Will Smith, who is going to be a well above average MLB catcher, and Keibert Ruiz. There is no reason for the Dodgers, a team bumping up against luxury tax issues, to invest $50M+ into Grandal with those two in their system, and both MLB ready or close to MLB ready.
-
1
-
-
14 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:
The job of the Sox FO is to add a TOR pitcher into Tier 1 and then fill tier 2 with a bunch of FA. Grandal would make Tier 2. We then need a Tier 2 RF and DH as well. I expect the Sox to never come close to signing a TOR pitcher via FA. I do however epxect them to sell off a bunch of the farm in 2021 or 2022 to acquire a controllable starter like Cole or Quintana.
Q will be a FA following 2020, so we can acquire him for nothing buy money in 13 months.
-
18 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:
It's more like it wouldn't be a problem as opposed to a solution when you consider cost effectiveness . How is it the amazing Rays Front Office Rays could see his value yet even smart ( and I mean that it's not sarcastic) Sox fans like you can't ?
Because they paid him a pittance, let him spend about 20% of his time at DH, and didn't overexpose him to RHP. Avi had a nice season. He's a major league baseball player. But we've seen that movie many times, and he isn't even remotely close to a good fit for what this club needs. The Sox could afford to role the dice on some kids in 2019 (Palka, Cordell, etc.) - they did and it didn't work. Letting Avi go was the correct thing to do.
-
8 minutes ago, steveno89 said:
Much appreciated^
I hope Hahn and Co. are smart enough to not pay Abreu anywhere close to retail. The old mindset would be ink him for three years, $45 million and be happy. The new, more analytical, MLB would not offer an aging slugger beyond a season or two at a reasonable rate. Would another club really offer him much more?
Vaughn is in the pipeline now, and it is not crazy to think he could be MLB ready by 2021 given his advanced offensive profile.
We have to remember not to totally blow our wad this offseason and leave little flexibility for next offseason when we truly expect to be in the contention mix. Extending our core should also be explored.
If it were up to me, 2/$25M would be my take it leave it offer. I would be OK with 2/$30M and a team option for a third year, and realistically I think that he is the best we can hope for. Anything over $15M AAV or 2 years is crazy. But the Sox are a loyal org, and I worry they'll pay him more than he'd get on the open market.
To be clear, I have no issues whatsoever with keeping Abreu around. He's still a good stick and good mentor. But he does complicate both short-term and long-term roster management a bit, and he needs to spend more time at DH. With Vaughn in the wings, I just don't want to see the Sox tied to him for more than 2 more seasons.
-
21 hours ago, cjgalloway said:
loll.. so who DHs the 100 games when he is catching? McCann? Collins? The whole, "lets carry 3 catchers so they can alternate at DH" is a complete and utter joke when 2 of those can't hit..
CJ, curious what your plan would be since you seem the hate the Grandal idea?
Seems as though you have no interest in Collins getting at bats, so I assume he's in AAA or traded in whatever plan you have. How do you solve DH? You just run McCann out there 6 days a week again, and sign a cheap vet catcher to backup McCann? You say the Abreu/Grandal/McCann/Collins rotation covering 1B, C and DH is an "utter joke", because 2 of the hitters are bad, but without Grandal, you're running McCann and shitty backup catcher out there everyday, so you're basically in the same spot anyway, sans having a well above average player in Grandal. In an Abreu, Grandal, McCann, Collins platoon, rarely would the 2 bad hitters in your mind (Collins and McCann) be playing on the same day as they are opposite platoon mates. Abreu and Grandal play most days. McCann plays mostly against LHP who he has a .812 career OPS against. Collins plays against RHP who had had a .751 OPS against in limited sample (77 PA) in the majors, and a .905 OPS against in 18-19 in the upper minors. Seems like a pretty good platoon situation to me.
-
11 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:
The question is...is Grandal truly a top option at the position worthy of significant years and dollars? Based on how other teams responded to his availability last winter I’d say the answer is no. Now If he’s willing to sign for 3/$40M or something along those lines sure bring him in but I think it would be a mistake to give him more than 3 years or more than ~$14M AAV over several years. I know many have but I also haven’t given up on Collins yet as the starting catcher from 2021 onward.
You can’t just ignore the fact that he had a QO attached to him, and that he turned down a 4/$60M deal from the Mets early in the offseason.
-
5 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:
I'll be honest: carrying 3 catchers sounds like a waste of a roster spot.
Don’t look at Collins as a catcher then. He probably won’t be doing it much. He’s 1B/DH type that you can occasionally play at catcher and allows you to DH your other 2 catchers on a regular basis without any concern.
For the plan to work, you need Grandal. Without him, may as well just send Collins to AAA to play everyday.
-
38 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:
It’s called platooning. McCann is well above league average vs LHP over his career and Collins was league average against RHP in first MLB stint despite a horrendous start bringing down his numbers. My guess is those two can give you quality offensive production if used correctly. And Grandal giving you ~120 wRC+ production is more than fine at the DH spot. To me, the idea makes perfect sense and provides far more flexibility than bringing on JDM.
I just don’t understand. It’s a match made in heaven with their roster situation, especially if married to Abreu. Thankfully I think the Sox are very interested in Grandal, but it takes two to tango. Have to imagine 4/$75M at the most gets it done. Better offer than he turned down from the Mets last season before taking the 1 year deal. There should be a good deal of interest across the league.
-
1
-
-
8 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:
So we're trading McCann or Collins?
No. McCann is the backup catcher (takes Gios starts and some starts against LHP). Collins is a part time platoon player that gets occasional starts at catcher, 1b and DH against RHP.
Not that complicated.
-
1
-
-
19 minutes ago, cjgalloway said:
again.... 70 of those games you listed have a bad hitter at DH... makes no sense carrying 3 C. Grandal's entire value is dependent on him playing C.. He is not a DH
I can basically guarantee you that if Collins is on the major league roster, there will be 3 catchers on it. They are not going to relegate Collins to pure backup catcher duties at this point. If Collins is on the team, he is going to play, and that is going to be a time-share at C, 1B and DH. I am not ready to completely write-off Collins as a "bad hitter" at this stage, but definitely understand your concern there. However, the scenario I describe is an ENORMOUS upgrade over what we ran out at DH/C/1B in 2018, so not sure why that suddenly doesn't work in your mind.
I too would prefer the Sox sign JDM to DH, Grandal to catch, resign Abreu to play 1B, find a suitable RF and some SP. But I also live in reality and realize the Sox are unlikely to exceed $125M payroll. The Grandal/Abreu/McCann/Collins tandem sharing C, DH and 1B duties makes a ton of sense. You may not like it, but Grandal has a career OBP of .348 and OPS + of 115. Obviously that profiles better at catcher than DH, but he isn't going to be able to catch 150 games, so you work his bat in elsewhere. It makes sense to me, and to a lot other people who pay a lot of attention - including non-White Sox associated people like Mike Petriello who says Grandal is an amazing fit for the White Sox.
The Sox need to find a way to get more lineup balance, while also improving team defense. The available free agents are very right handed, and the better bats are poor defenders. You don't sign a guy just because he is lefty and switch hitter, but that is something that needs to be considered and oftentimes ignored here. Moncada can't be the only legitimate bat in the lineup that hits lefthanded.
5 minutes ago, steveno89 said:I'm advocating we sign Grandal to a multi year deal and still keep McCann for 2020 as a backup.
I know. You and I are on the same page.
Manny B, Cordell, Goins, & Skole outrighted, 40-man now at 35
in Pale Hose Talk
Posted
A little surprised to see them cut bait on Cordell. Definitely not the others.