[A Realistic Offseason]

6 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

If Grandal is getting majority of his at bats between 1B/DH. then I would rather sign someone better for DH like JDM if he is available.

He'd be getting the "majority" of his starts at catcher.  He'd start ~90-100 games at catcher.  

[A Realistic Offseason]

Just now, cjgalloway said:

loll.. so who DHs the 100 games when he is catching? McCann?  Collins?  The whole, "lets carry 3 catchers so they can alternate at DH" is a complete and utter joke when 2 of those can't hit.. 

This really isn't that complicated.  Not exact numbers here, but something like this could definitely work. 

Abreu: 1B (100 games), DH (50 games)

Grandal: C (90 games), 1B (30 games), DH (30 games)

McCann: C (50 games), DH (30 games)

Collins: C (20 games), DH (40 games), 1B (20 games)

Basically Abreu is your 1B and occasional DH.  Grandal catches against RHP, DHs or 1B against LHP.  McCann catches Gio and gets a few DH starts against LHP.  Sprike Collins in at catcher, CH and 1B against righties.  

Obviously other guys can DH occasionally too.  

[White Sox listed as interested in Marcel Ozuna by Dominican Reporter]

2 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

Hes probably not getting 2-3 years though.

Yah, I could see three years.  I've said it before, but if Ozuna's market dips into the 3 years $45-$50M range, the Sox should definitely kick the tires.  He's not a good fit, but you can DH him some, DH Eloy some, etc., but you're still going to need to find a LH corner OF that is at worst an average defender.  There is value there.  7 years and $150+M or whatever is laughable though, and he'd be lucky to get half that.  

I think he goes for 4/$75-80M type deal in the end.  

[A Realistic Offseason]

1 minute ago, cjgalloway said:

GRANDAL DOES NOT SOLVE DH 

Assuming Abreu is resigned, he most certainly does.  

[A Realistic Offseason]

McCann was the 9th best catcher in all of baseball last year per fWAR.  Not exactly sure who people think we're going to upgrade with besides Grandal, and even if you sign Grandal, you still need another catcher.

The whole discussion is silly.  McCann is going nowhere for 2020.  

[A Realistic Offseason]

Just now, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Why?

Because he isn't very good at catching, and they'll want to play him at 1B and DH as well.  Tough to regularly use your only backup catcher elsewhere in the field.  Even if the Sox miss out on Grandal, I am pretty much certain they'll be carrying 2 catchers in addition to Collins.  

[A Realistic Offseason]

7 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

Grandal is a luxury.

In the sense that all FAs are a luxury.  Grandal is far and away the best free agent position player fit for the White Sox.  People need to stop looking at Grandal as if he's replacing McCann.  Grandal will DH and play 1B in addition to catching, allowing Collins to be more than strictly a b/u catcher, and also allowing McCann to not get overexposed.  

Grandal is the perfect fit, and likely won't even require $20M AAV.    

[A Realistic Offseason]

1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Is Collins still on the team?

He is not a viable everyday catcher, and the Sox aren't going to use him as a backup either.  Hence, we need three catchers.  

[A Realistic Offseason]

Just now, KennyPowers said:

If we are picking a stop gap for RF it would be wise to actually pick a RF. Just saying.

Wow - the love for Gardner is mind boggling.

Not sure how you define that post as "love".  He's a passable stopgap.

Setting aside trade options for a second because those are difficult to handicap, please list to me a few better free agent options in RF.  Please consider factors such as defense, lineup balance and contract.  

I'll wait.  

[A Realistic Offseason]

4 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

More or less he had a career year in almost every category and those we're driven by the first half stats. His second half had a BA, OBP about 100 points less than the first half. His OPS was almost 200 points less in the second half. He's a pumpkin who had a crazy good half of one season. If you want to make the argument that he served as Giolito's personal catcher I can see that angle... but i dont think that's worth $5mm+. Giolito isn't going to have McCann around his whole career. So I'd cut bait now. 

Ok, you're welcome to your opinion, and I would agree wholeheartedly that 2nd half 2019 McCann is likely the McCann we see in 2020.  But he's still worth $4.9M projected arb price, and there is no chance he is non-tendered.

I also am strongly for signing Grandal, which would relegate McCann to Gio's personal catcher, and get some starts other against LHP.  He still definitely has a role on this club.   

[A Realistic Offseason]

9 minutes ago, KennyPowers said:

Agreed. Gardner makes no sense in RF.

A trade for Pederson or Reddick makes sense for RF.

I am not a big champion of Gardner, but he's one of the better stop gap options.  How can you say Gardner makes no sense, and then in the next sentence suggest a trade for Reddick who by all measures is an inferior player to Gardner.  Only positive to Reddick is he is a couple years younger, but for 1 season that doesn't matter much.  I don't think anyone here is interested in giving Gardner a 3 year $30M deal, but if you can get him for 1 year $8-10M and all trade options in RF are too expensive or don't work out for whatever reason, there are definitely worse options in RF for a year.

Reddick 2019 stats: .275/.319/.409; OPS .728; 89 OPS+

Gardner: .251/.325/.503; OPS .829; 117 OPS+

[A Realistic Offseason]

2 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

I'd put Grandal pretty far below RF/DH/SP tbh.

Grandal basically solves C/DH/1B assuming Abreu is retained.  Between Abreu, Grandal, McCann and Collins, those three positions are covered. 

FA is really solvable via FA unless its a 1 year stop gap.  So not a ton of capital needs to be deployed there. Pretty obvious they'll try to find a trade partner there.  

I would agree that SP should be 1A, but Grandal should be 1B.  

[A Realistic Offseason]

6 minutes ago, BrianAnderson said:

Still haven't given this a ton of thought or researched what may be available everywhere via trades, etc. It's just a gut feeling, but i think you'll see Hahn make some sort of trade for a controllable RF or DH. Obviously I think finding a cheap DH that's serviceable should be the easiest ... they are a dime a dozen, but based on Hahn's track record .... it hasn't been the case so far. 

My keys in general: Find your team MULTIPLE high OBP guys. Guys who take walks. guys who put the ball in play, etc. Madrigal will be a good start. Eloy should be better next year in that category. Robert can't be worse than Engel and Cordell.  However, we'll likely get regression from guys like Anderson and you can't have a whole team of Anderson's. We need better, longer AB's that force the pitcher into more uncomfortable situations and get to the bullpen quicker. You can't have a team and win CONSISTENTLY with having so many all or nothing guys. We have a decent core, but having so many nothing guys hurts. I mean look at the Cubs (or a lot of modern baseball). You can have a ton of talent, but you need some consistency guys like the (hopefully) Madrigals. 

So that being said as much as I'd like a Puig and some of the other popular names being thrown around - I can't say he's going to make the team much better, because i don't want a bunch of .280BA with a .300OBP. I want guys who will work the count. I'd look to teams like the Pirates and Rockies and Mariners, etc. and see if there's a way to grab one of their younger controllable guys. So without further ado:

Sign Grandal, don't resign McCann. McCann was great in 2019 & that's fine. But let's move on. It's the Palka story of 2018. It was a fun career year, but there's a bunch of history here and I don't think he repeats. With Collins and Mercedes and Zavala at AAA I think you take whoever does the best in ST and put them on the roster. Hopefully that's Collins, but we'll see. They start 60-80 games behind the dish, another 30 or so at DH. Grandal does the rest splitting between 1B, DH, and C. Grandal rated 4th in all of MLB in pitchers per AB. I like that he fills a hole as well as a mindset. A guy like him can be very valuable to a young clubhouse. Catcher position is now put to rest for the next 3-4 years. As is DH with Abreu/Collins/Grandal/Vaughn. Those 4 should be able to rotate between 1B, DH, C pretty well. 

You lost me at the bolded.  McCann isn't a FA, is coming of a 2.3 fWAR season and could be had for less than $5 million via arb.  There is a zero percent chance the Sox non-tender McCann. 

[A Realistic Offseason]

1 hour ago, scs787 said:

Good stuff here....I know the DH spot doesnt hold a lot of fWAR because they don't field, but what'd we get outta them? Wasn't the DH spot historically bad? 

Again, not good. 

Palka: -1.3

Alonso: -1.3

AJ Reed: -0.5

Skole: -0.5

Delmonico: -0.5

Collins: -0.3

Again, those are cumulative fWAR stats, and they appeared at more than just DH, but its not pretty.

[A Realistic Offseason]

15 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

What were the WARs of Yolmer, our RF throughout the year, and our revolving door of a 5th starter?

Not exact because they appeared more than just in RF and 5th starter, but my calculations were -3.1 fWAR for RF and -2.1 fWAR for 5th starter. In way you spice it, it’s awful. Replacing with 2 WAR players is at least a 9 fWAR swing. 

[A Realistic Offseason]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

 

He said absolutely nothing about the development of Eloy, Lopez, and Cease. That's totally reasonable including the other guys. He said those additions alone are 10 games. He included Dunning and Hamilton as contributors but not those guys. 

I think it was pretty obvious that he was insinuating that. Adding in Wheeler, Grandal, Nimmo (my trade target of choice), Wood/Hill and a solid reliever and you have the makings of a team that COULD be in contention. Big offseason for sure, but nothing earth shattering in terms of dollars spent. 

[A Realistic Offseason]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

Dane Dunning is not going to be in the big leagues this year. Hamilton was straight up bad this year and may never be a useful piece again. Rodon will miss half the season. So, basically in your eyes, 1 month of Rodon, Kopech, Robert, and Madrigal, is the difference between a 70 win team and an 80 win team? This is a joke.

It is not completely insane to think that Kopech, Robert, Madrigal along with a year of development from our young core players could be the difference between and a 70 and 80 win team. Poppy is definitely on the overly optimistic side, but if you’re replacing our turnstile in RF and 5th SP with Robert and Kopech, that is an enormous upgrade alone. Madrigal over Yolmer should be a slight upgrade at worst, and a significant one if Madrigal thrives right away. Plus we dealt with all the injuries with season to our core players in Eloy, Tim and Yoan. If the Sox can stay healthier in 2020, they could have the makings of a .500 ball club with no FA additions besides resigning Abreu. 

Also I would guess that Dunning does appear in the big leagues at some point in 2020, and it’s not very fair to completely write off Hamilton. His 2019 was completely cursed with a car accident and getting hit in the face with an errant foul liner. Very little had to do with structural damage or pain from pitching. I would guess he’s definitely in the Sox short term plans. 

It all just comes down to how they decide to fill out the roster and deploy the dollars. Thankfully, we are finally starting to get close to the beginning of the answers. Should be a fun offseason - fingers crossed the Sox do the right thing! 

[White Sox listed as interested in Marcel Ozuna by Dominican Reporter]

It is truly amazing to me that there are people that think bringing Avi Garcia back would actually be a solution.  

[A Realistic Offseason]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

So to recap our RF suggestions it's

Internal:

- Leury

- Engel

FA:

- Alex Gordon

- Brett Gardner

- Marcell Ozuna

- JD Martinez 

- Castellanos

- Puig

- Avi Garcia

- Calhoun if buyout

-JBJ if buyout

Trade:

- Nimmo

- Conforto

- Pederson

- Marte

- Betts

- Brian Anderson

- Soler

- Schwarber

- Benintendi

- Dahl

- Heyward

- D. Santana

Is that about the thorough list of discussed options?

I would add Corey Dickerson to the FA list and Gregory Polonco, Nomar Mazara and Ramiel Tapia to the RF list.  

[A Realistic Offseason]

22 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Have you ever said anything memorable since you’ve been here..besides chiming in incessantly from the dugout?

Lol.  Coming from the guy that spends a good chunk of his free time on a forum negatively rambling on and and on and on about about mostly nothing.  Comical.  Its always amazed me the amount of time you spend doing something that clearly causes you so much angst.  Its unfortunate, because you definitely have baseball knowledge to share, but instead chose to consistently bring down the quality of this board with your rambling non-sense and pure negativity.  Its a shame.    

[A Realistic Offseason]

The big news we've all been waiting for....

Minaya and Despaigne elected free agency.  

[White Sox listed as interested in Marcel Ozuna by Dominican Reporter]

25 minutes ago, ChiSoxJon said:

Just realistically don't see JR spending 9 digits on anyone (Cole, Strasburg, Rendon, Ozuna, JDM), we shall see however

Short term starters that we can compete with now, affordably would be major
Also, Alex Gordon is a short term affordable upgrade in RF and to the lineup that KW and Hahn previously targeted
Avi provides this lineup with more pop, and better depth

All of this while holding onto top prospects, not overpaying anyone, and not committing to anyone long term with blue chip prospects (Kopech, Robert, Madrigal, Vaughn) ready to be infused soon
 

While I would love Cole and Strasburg, I don't see it happening
Rendon I don't see leaving WSH, nor do I view as a necessity with our long term IF set
Ozuna we'll see on, don't want to lock him until he's 35 nor overpay him
JDM I'm not even sure will be available
Wheeler I don't want to overpay to be a very good # 4 or a solid #3

I don't see Cole, Strasburg or Rendon happening either.  But there is a solid group of FA after those three before you get the dumpster diving you're pushing for.  Plus, Ozuna and JDM are not getting 9 figure deals.  

The Sox need to sign one of Grandal or JD Martinez.  A big bat has to happen.  They need to sign a SP just below the tier of Cole/Strasburg - whether that is Wheeler, or Bumgarner, or Ryu, they all work.  After that, I am OK filling in the gaps with guys like Hamels, Miley, Alex Gordon/Kole Calhoun/Dickerson/Gardner, etc., but they need to add two of the ten or so FA, or this is never going to work.  

[White Sox listed as interested in Marcel Ozuna by Dominican Reporter]

9 minutes ago, ChiSoxJon said:

Ozuna a superior player, but I was for A) never losing Avi and now B) signing Avi...Brings power and a solid bat to this lineup, potential DH/backup RF?

My ideal realistic offseason consisted off adding 2 of Hamels, Q, Miley, Avi, and Alex Gordon...along with bringing back Abreu

SS Anderson
3B Moncada
CF Robert
1B Abreu
LF Eloy
DH Avi
RF Gordon
C McCann/Collins
2B Madrigal

With Yolmer, Leury and...Holt? off the bench

Super fun to think about...And maybe, just maybe, we can have somewhat of a consistent lineup finally

Gio-Hamels-Miley-Cease-Lopez with Kopech and Rodon coming back and Dunning at some point is super fun too

I don't think that team you just described is "super fun to think about".  I think it is an 80 win team at best.  The Sox need to supplement this team with at least 2-3 well above average players.  Hamels, Miley, Avi and Gordon do not that fit that bill.   That offseason would get a giant D from me.  

[A Realistic Offseason]

1 minute ago, bmags said:

This is a terrible post.

In a long line of terrible Caulfield posts.  

[White Sox listed as interested in Marcel Ozuna by Dominican Reporter]

9 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

I actually think Ozuna could end up being a decent value for us if he has a pick attached to him and has a soft market like many think he will. 
 

If we could plug Ozuna into RF for 3/48 would anyone be upset?

I think if his market dips that much, you have to be interested.  But I think you still to acquire a LH hitting OF that can play RF most days with Ozuna at DH, and occasionally in RF/LF.