Lip Man 1

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 10:58 AM) But from the periods you are discussing, they have made changes. Laumann does the draft. Hahn is the GM. Marco Paddy was hired. Ventura is a change. They have done exactly what you are calling for except for one guy, and now, all of a sudden, after a winter of giddiness from Sox fans. Soxfest sellouts, everyone bowing to Hahn, failure happens. Guess what? Now all those moves that couldn't have been more praised by media and the fans, they had nothing to do with Rick Hahn. It clearly was Kenny Williams, the guy that did build the only team that has won in about 100 years, now hasn't a clue, and is forcing Hahn to sign players, and has a gun to JR's head telling him he has to approve the payroll increase. That's fine and dandy, but now let's get back to the facts, which aren't so entertaining. JR was told his team had a lot of holes and was a bit away from contending. JR wanted to win right away and told his guys they needed to do what they could to make that happen. They don't have much they can trade away for anything that helps, but they took that, and got Samardzija. They did the other thing they could do and signed several free agents. This wasn't KW running the ship, this was JR. Maybe KW goes to Toronto or somewhere else this offseason, but he and Hahn did what JR ordered. Baseball, not being like other things in life, sometimes doesn't go as planned no matter how much effort and thought you put into it. Dick: Perhaps I didn't make it clear enough and if so that's on me, but the point I was trying to make with the comparison to 1970 was to go outside the organization. I did mention something along those lines but perhaps not strongly enough. There are simply far to many people in the organization from top to bottom with loyalty ties to JR, to many people having worked for the Bulls organization and crossed over or folks who basically owe their careers to JR. They certainly made changes, how could they not in 10 years, but the mind set seems to be the same since many of the individuals have ties to either the White Sox or JR. I simply wish completely outside people would be brought in from successful winning organizations like the Cardinals, Rays, Tigers, Angels for example. That's what I meant when I wrote about "fresh eyes / fresh ideas..." Again if I didn't make that clear I apologize. Mark

QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 21, 2015 -> 11:03 AM) The main point in all of this that's missed is that Ventura has no previous coaching experience on any level outside of his kids' teams. Who gets hired to a top level job by any sane/employed person that has zero experience in lower levels to show that they actually know what they're doing? Well Kenny hired Robin after asking Konerko to become a player / manager. Konerko turned him down saying it would be to much to try to do. JR then approved Kenny's decision since he has the final say on positions like that. So if blame needs to be assigned, I assume it goes mainly to Kenny for floating those ideas and then JR for continuing his philosophy of not hiring a manager with previous managerial experience at the major league level since Jeff Torborg in 1989. Mark

Dick: Kenny in my view is a big part of the problem but pinning the entire situation on one guy is wrong in my opinion. Do I think the organization would be better off if JR allows him to leave to say Toronto this off season? Absolutely and many of the off season moves have a Kenny feel to them given his M.O. for over a decade. But that won't solve all the problems, especially in drafting and minor league player development. Kenny doesn't have a lot of hands-on stuff in those areas from what I know. Mark

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 08:20 PM) Why isn't Leury Garcia in the mix to temporarily fill the hole at SS, if Alexei is not brought back? He's a strong defender, with a canon for an arm, and is having a pretty good year at AAA. L. Garcia in my opinion is another one of those "Four A" players (and the Sox have a bunch of them). Impressive stats in the minor leagues but when they get their chance at the major league level they can't do a thing. Garcia had a chance last year and didn't show much. Sox need to do better than him. Mark

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 04:47 PM) So Alexei leads all AL SS in assists. Is that an indication that he plays more than most SS or is it because the fuss about his fielding is slightly overblown ? It's not just the fielding although many of his errors come on really simple plays...to me it's his mental mistakes, his tendency to let his mind drift on the field as well as his inability to work a count usually swinging at the first pitch and generally grounding out to short in key situations with runners in scoring position. Mark

This from Monday's Sun-Times just FYI: "Ventura said the team chose to keep little-used infielder Emilio Bonifacio because he’s used as a pinch hitter and a pinch runner." Mark

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 20, 2015 -> 09:57 AM) I always remember the 2nd time we traded Doug Drabek as he was part of our famous white flag trades. I think the White Flag Trade involved Wilson Alvarez, Roberto Hernandez and Danny Darwin to the Giants for six minor league players. The best of the bunch turned out to be Keith Foulke and Bobby Howry. Doug Drabek was actually released at the end of that 1997 season. He was there for the entire year going 12-11 with an ERA close to six. Mark

I'd be curious to see who are free agent infielders / shortstops for next year. Maybe the Sox can get one on a short term deal. They need to get rid of Ramirez in my opinion. He is the poster boy for "baseball-stupid" that has been plaguing this team for the past few years. Mark

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 19, 2015 -> 08:46 PM) Yes, he was reputed to be, but I certainly haven't seen much of that. I guess it was unreasonable to expect a radical change, but I did expect to see some changes. He deals with same teams Williams did. Hitting coach from Oakland. Invest in utility infielders and past their prime veterans. Extend the insider manager (who doesn't know a thing about sabremetrics) off of a 99 loss season, instead of bringing in his own manager. There has been virtually no change. Maybe we'll see some this trading season....some selling high, for example, but I doubt it. Green: Valid points to be sure but again to continue a discussion we simply don't know how much power Hahn has, if his moves were vetoed by Kenny, if he was 'forced' (for wont of a better word) to make certain moves because of Kenny (as I discussed the off season appeared to be radically different from the plan Hahn was following.) We simply don't know what is really going on. With that in mind it's hard to make a judgment. And also history shows JR is a very "hands-on" owner for better or worse. Just my opinion. Mark

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jul 19, 2015 -> 09:35 PM) Lip welcome aboard! Do you still post over at WSI? Yes I do. Mark

QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 19, 2015 -> 08:23 PM) Hasnt it been already established that Rick Hahn was trained by the guys currently above him in the front office? Why would you expect a radically different philosophy when that first fact is available? It makes zero sense. Not saying this is good or bad but Hahn appears to be more sabermetrics orientated then Kenny. And he seems to be much more patient and willing to trust the "process" or "plan" then Kenny. Just my opinion. Mark

Remember folks to keep checking in over at Sox Net for (almost) daily looks back at This Date In Sox History. Mark

QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 19, 2015 -> 06:24 PM) and if he has actually done any of that has not been proven. So the talk that Kenny is somehow impeding his progress is complete speculation. Absolutely no argument on that point. I'd simply like to see Rick have the same situation that Kenny did when he was G.M. and remove all doubt and end the speculation. Personally I hope Kenny gets permission to move on to another organization this off season. Mark

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Jul 19, 2015 -> 06:45 PM) Drafting Jared Mitchell ahead of Mike Trout There were 21 or 22 other teams that made the same mistake. Certainly not just on the Sox for that one. Mark

QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 19, 2015 -> 06:06 PM) Ah so it's all Kenny's fault. Rick Hahn had nothing to do with the influx in money? He was just an innocent bystander bowing down to the powers of Kenny Williams. I'm sure Kenny would have said no to another year of building. I mean we didnt just go through a 2 year building starting in 2013...oh wait. This power structure is very similar to what most teams have in baseball. Almost make it sound like Hahn has earned Bill Parcells type of credibility. Might as well make him the manager while you at it. Of course Rick has input but again by his own words Kenny has to approve everything which means by the nature of the structure that if Kenny wants a trade or a signing he has the power to tell Hahn to get it done.

Kenny has talked a lot to the press the past few months and he's made it very clear by his own words that before Hahn or his people can do anything they have to run it by him. Let's put it this way, Hahn appeared to be patiently rebuilding the major league team and the minor league system since July 2013. Then "suddenly" the Sox spend a lot of money this off season, much of it spent on veterans in their 30's. That's been Kenny's M.O. for years right? "Win now!", "Go for It," "It's Time!" and his football mentality. Pretty clear to me he's still running the show. I'd also love to see Hahn get his chance without interference...let's put it this way (again)...when Kenny was G.M. did he have to answer / clear things with anybody? Answer: No...Roland Hemond was simply an advisor, not his boss. Hahn deserves the same situation. The White Sox front office is simply to unwieldy in my opinion. Mark

Offense is still brutal. Can't beat divisional opponents (because they don't stack up to them talent-wise) Time to call it a night on another season and start trading whatever you can for the future. Mark

QUOTE (scs787 @ Jul 18, 2015 -> 10:51 PM) Great work and welcome aboard....I must ask, are you of any relation to Thomas? Don't know of any Thomas...sorry. Thanks for the nice words! Appreciate it. Mark

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 18, 2015 -> 06:28 PM) Then why warm him up? Didn't realize he was warming up. Mark

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 18, 2015 -> 06:00 PM) Sounds like Robertson is healthy, so no clue why he wasn't used. Maybe he was promised the day off...Robin has done that before with him this season. Mark

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 18, 2015 -> 06:27 AM) 4 games out in the loss column for the 2nd wild card. Why the f*** not. To pull it off they'll have to overcome the toughest second half schedule in MLB according to Buster Olney at ESPN given the number of games they have against teams over .500. Mark

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 09:49 PM) No, I think Shark will get dealt at the deadline IF the Sox are 9 are so out of WC. It's obvious Hahn won't deal anybody til Sox fall out of the WC race. Some of us think that is fantasy; front office people who built this team obviously are hoping they'll still grab the WC. I didn't explain it well. No, I think the Sox didn't deal him at the break because Hahn thinks the team is in the pennant race. I think Sox would have gotten a great haul for him had they traded him then or by Sunday. My point is they'll get little to nothing for him when he's finally dealt with a month left in the season. I'd be surprised if the Sox get a lot for Shark but not because I don't think he's a capable, winning pitcher. The Sox won't get much because he's going to be a two month rental for some team. He's going the free agent route. Cubs got a haul for him because when he was traded to Oakland he still had a year and a half on his deal. Mark

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 17, 2015 -> 04:29 PM) The Royals are awful at 2B. Why haven't they called him up? We can do better....if Williams/Hahn stop kidding themselves and start making some moves. They should have traded him during the all star break. And then a new coaching staff after the season. I think the team will make some moves in the next 10 days but honestly I don't think you'll be seeing changes to the coaching staff or manager this off season. Right or wrong the Sox are a very loyal organization. JR, Kenny, Hahn are all in Robin's corner. Now he may resign, there's always that chance but from what I'm hearing he will not be fired. Mark

Strange fact: Sox have had six shutouts this season (three in the last five games...) Danks has been the starting pitcher in four of them. Team still can't hit, 50th time this season three runs or less. But it's a win and assuming Sale wins Sunday they've at least got a split. Just makes things tougher on Hahn but in the end, I think he sells off what he can. Mark

Thanks to Daniel and the good folks at Sox Net, we will be having our daily updates of This Date in Sox History posted at that site. It took me two years to research, compile and track down some of the greatest moments (as well as the most bizarre) in franchise history. I hope you'll enjoy reading them. Two items start this off for July 17. One focuses on Early Wynn...the other Carlton Fisk. That will be daily (or almost every day, the off season is a little slower) at Sox Net. Thanks, Mark