TheFutureIsNear

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 08:54 AM) Look at all 8 of the names availabke for King Felix a few years ago. Some have had OK careers since, but even if Boston gave you all 8, you still lose. How'd Hanley and Anibal Sanzhez for Beckett work out for the Red Sox? But this isn't even worth arguing over....Sale isn't getting traded anytime soon. Just a fun thing to think about, I'm a junkie for trade ideas lol

Yeah I don't think the Red Sox are trading Betts unless they get a SP with proven success back. We don't have any extra of those to trade. Provided he's healthy/Will be healthy Victorino is the guy I want. He'd fit perfect in LF and the #2 hole. Switch hitter with some speed and defense who gets on base at a decent clip. Sounds perfect to me. And if they want to throw Nava in I'd take him as well.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 07:08 AM) If we trade Sale, then we're punting the 2015 & 2016 seasons. If that's the case, why would you care about John Danks' salary being on our books? Chris Sale is 1 (great) starting pitcher....if we have the chance to get 2 or 3 offensive starters and 2 SP's in return we wouldn't be punting anything in 2016, we would be a much better team actually. I like Sale as much as the next fan, but when you are talking about building a WS winning team no 1 player is too valuable to trade. Like I said, everyone has a price.

Everyone has a price....even Chris Sale. The package would need to be in the range of Swihart, Bogarts, Ceccini, Betts, Owens and Ranaudo. And that just gets me to start thinking. I'd probably force Danks on them as well.

QUOTE (bruni @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 01:36 PM) Judging by the comments, this will not go over well but if someone is willing to trade me Cespedes and Bogaerts plus another throw in (Nava?, Middlebrooks?) for Sale, I make that trade all day long. I then immediately have SS solved for the next 6+ years and I work to sign Cespedes for a longer term deal. I also then flip Alexi to Seattle/LA/NYM or anyone else for 2 young controllable pitchers with upside and grab Headley to play 3B. Every time I watch Sale pitch with the torque he puts on that arm, all I hear is tick...tick...tick... The guy is bound to breakdown and this years stint on the DL for a month is where he is unfortunately likely headed in the years to come. Sell high and solve for 2-4 needs at once for the price of a 12 win pitcher who - while a stud ace when healthy - is a high risk player. Don't think so? Just 2 years ago, the W Sox were going to make him a reliever to save his arm, remember? And if you don't like what Boston has to offer, I'd put it out there are the GM meetings in December that all but Abreu are available so make an offer. Sale is never going to be more valuable than now and our team needs multiple solutions, not just one. Am I in the minority - absolutely. Do I hope Sale can stay and give the W Sox an injury free HOF career - you bet. But as a 22+ year season ticket holder growing tired of watching the team finish out of the playoffs, I'd rather use our most valuable, yet risky piece to gain depth and improve the teams over all talent base. PS - for the Cespedes haters, while yes he is overrated, last year only 9 players in the AL reached 100 RBI's in 2014 and Cespedes was one of them. That type of production is increasingly hard to come by so the comparisons with him and Viciedo need to really stop as it is not even close. Plus a middle of the line up with Abreu, Cespedes, La Roche, Headley, Garcia looks pretty good to me. Stick Eaton at leadoff and Bogaerts in the 2 hole and you are going to have a serious offense! OK - now let me have it! I'm not even close to the type of fan that wouldn't trade Sale....I believe every player has a price and that isn't even remotely close to what Sale's price should be. What do we want Cespedes for? He can't hit and wants to be paid way more than he's worth. Bogart, Owens, Betts, and Ceccini would be the STARTING price. I'd also probably ask them to take Danks on as well. I'm trying to think....has a top 5 pitcher ever been traded in their prime with multiple years left on their contract? The value of Sale should.be through the rough + some.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 01:43 PM) I agree, and the following stats will illustrate just how consistently terrific Ethier has been vs. RH pitching, which after all is what hitters face most of the time: YEAR PA .AVG .OBP SLG BB SO 2008 441 .326 .392 .560 44 64 2009 498 .302 .390 .571 59 77 2010 407 .318 .396 .564 46 66 2011 400 .321 .410 .468 51 62 2012 379 .325 .398 .546 39 61 2013 393 .294 .394 .460 52 60 That is 6 consecutive years, in his prime, when Ethier was as consistently good as anyone facing RHP. Last year would appear to be an outlier and the reasons are well known. By contrast, Kemp has feasted on LH pitching most of his career. He is not nearly as consistently good vs. RHP. Add in the injury free history and character/leadership factors, as well as the cost, and it is easy to see why one might prefer Either to Kemp, who would provide more HR's, but that's about all. As he ages, he could use the rest vs LH starters, which would make him available as a pinch hitter off the bench, in the late innings vs RHP. Wouldn't that be a great asset to have? Yup, good post. A lot people seem turned off on Eithier because of last year, but I actually give the guy credit for handling the situation as well as he did. A well established vet who more or less gets completely benched after a .780+ OPS season usually doesn't happen and I don't think many guys who have handled it very well or quietly. If we are faced with the option of Eithier at 3/36(after the Dodgers eat $) or Melky Cabrera at 4/60 I'm44 taking Eithier without thinking much.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 12:29 PM) I would prefer to stay away from ethier. He needs to be platooned. That package you suggesting is going to be more then alexei from the sox. I would also stay away from Semien at 3rd. He has 14 errors in 50 appearances there over the last 2 years. 33 appearances in 2014 and 10 errors alone. Until he fixes his defense there I would be worried. Personally, I think you are underrating Eithier a good bit. Part of a platoon isn't that big of a deal when you are talking about a LH OF. He will still get an easy 500 PA's if he stays healthy. I'm not putting much stock in his #' in 2014 because of the situation he was in...in 2013 he hit .294/.394/.460 against righties in just under 400 PA's. Even if you want to say he's regressed a decent amount since then I think it would be hard to argue that he could give us a .280/.360/.420 type of season while playing at least adequate D in LF. That's a pretty valuable player if you ask me... And Semien better learn how to play 3B and 2B at least adequately or he's going to have a hard time finding any playing time at all. I think he will be fine there playing against LH pitchers only though. There isn't anything that I'm aware of in his skill set that should keep him from being able to at least hold his own at 3B. He was a young guy playing a position he's unfamiliar with, errors are going to happen.

I still think Eithier is the way to go for us, not Kemp....Either + $15-20M of his remaining $56M, 1 of Van Slyke/Schebler, and a young bull pen arm like Chris Winthrow, Paco Rodriguez, or Yimi Garcia for Alexei makes the most to me. We could then go out and get a cheap guy like Stephen Drew for SS if we are really that worried about Semien/Sanchez's D. 1. Eaton CF 2. Micah/Semein 2B 3. Eithier LF 4. Abreu 1B 5. Laroche DH 6. Garcia RF 7. Gillaspie/Semien 3B 8. Flowers 9. Drew/Semien Not bad at all if you ask me....just add a #3 SP and 1 more bull pen piece and we would definitely compete for a playoff spot.

If I were Hahn and I'm trying to win right now I would try to snatch up both Victorino and Nava for peanuts. I'm sure Boston has no use for either and would be happy to not have to pay them.

Can we actually just turn this into the Boston Redsox trade thread? I'm not sure exactly what they would want from us but they have a ton of talent with out a spot right now...They have Betts, Bradley Jr, Castillo, Cespedes, Nava, Craig, and Victorino all competing for 1 or maybe 2 spots. Like I said, not sure what we would have to offer them, but they sure do seem like a nice trade partner.

Forget Cespedes....the guy can't hit. If we are trading for a Boston OF I would want Victorino. Also seems to be an odd man out, and also is a FA at the end of the year. Switch hitter who is a good corner OF'er and gets on base at a decent clip. This is all provided he can even pass a physical at this point though...not sure what his health situation is like at the moment.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/11/athl...ed-hitters.html I know it's not as much of a priority anymore, but I would think we would still have interest in Reddick and Jaso. A's are looking for middle infield and that's the one spot we can afford to lose a guy or 2. Sounds like something to keep an eye on as it makes sense for both teams to at least discuss a deal.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Nov 23, 2014 -> 12:27 PM) I'm not against the proposed trade. Cahill + 6M for Snoddy? Sign me up. Cahill would only cost the Sox 6M and if the Sox do not like what they get, they buy out Cahill for a mere 300k in 2016. Not that big of a risk and I like the idea much more than Masterson. Yeah that deal would be an absolute no brainer for us. $6M is not a lot to take a chance on a bounce back scenario for a fairly young SP with a history of success.

I would definitely trade for Fowler and work out an extension with him. He would be absolutely perfect for us in the #2 hole....switch hitting high OBP guy who would likely be a + defender in LF. According to the article the asking price isn't that high, but they are looking for bullpen help...something we don't exactly have a ton of. Bassitt and Webb for Fowler and give him a 4 year $48M deal right away?

Despite being a finalist for the Gold Glove Alexei was pretty poor in every defensive metric you look at. -Fielding bible gave him a -10 rPM(+/-) runs saved - he had only a .734 defensive zone rating (he was in the .830's in his prime) - His UZR was -.7 (in the +10's in his prime) So honest question....given a natural slight decline due to age in Alexei would a platoon of Semien/Sanchez really be THAT much worse than Alexei next season? It's an honest question that you have to consider.

Ummm.....Brandon McCarthy. Why? I have no idea

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 08:47 PM) But LaRoche doesn't prevent us building for the future. He costs us nothing but money and is blocking no one of importance (sorry Andy Wilkins). Also, I think Hahn believes a lot of key pieces are already in place. We have legit #1 & #2 starters, one of the best hitters in baseball, and a very good leadoff guy. We are obviously not a finished product by any means, but if Hahn can fill our major holes with capable veterans and a few of our young, non-proven players like Avi, Semien, Rodon, etc. take that next step, we have a decent chance of being a playoff team. Burning cost-controlled years of Sale, Quintana, Abreu, & Eaton by refusing to sign/trade for veterans is by far the worst thing we can do IMO. Like I said, not a huge deal. I'm not worrying about it... We'll agree to disagree on a lot of that though, except I'm in complete agreement that we have a great nucleus to build around. In my opinion we are like 3/4 of the way through the rebuild and there's no point in not finishing it. I'd much rather wait it out and build something potentially great than add veterans for a wild card run and cross our fingers from there. If it were up to me this would have been another off season of trying to add as much young talent as possible. But we'll see what happens....its early still and anything can happen.

QUOTE (daggins @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 08:34 PM) This is just money. There is no deviation from building here. It does in a way...can't go back from here. The idea of trading Alexei goes out the window, and even dumping Danks for a minimal return is also probably not going to happen either. And if you spend this $ on a 35 year old you pretty much have to spend the rest of whatever may be available the next 2 years or its an extremely pointless signing....I don't doubt we will still continue to build through the draft and international signings with Hahn in control, but I think this definitely signifies that the rebuild is over and they are focused on winning in the immediate future. And I don't think its quite the time for any of that for the record.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 08:25 PM) What direction would you prefer? Keep building for the future. Like I said, it's only 2 years so there isn't a ton to complain about, but I'm just not a fan of stop gap old players at this point. Unless Hahn has something big still hidden under his sleeve that would make us legit contenders...

Mehh not the direction I want to see the team going in honestly....but 2 years $25M isn't going to hurt anything so I won't complain

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 07:27 PM) I know you didn't mean this for me, but I am going to say something here. I believe the sox intentions is to compete this yr and I believe the sox do have the horses to make it to the playoff. And your're certainly entitled to your opinion, nor am I here to tell you that you're wrong. I'm just a guy stating his opinion after all. And It's my belief that this team truly has a very bright future with a great nucleus to build around. I just think the front office has to be patient and see this rebuild all the way through. I want this team to be building for multiple WS run starting in '17, not hoping for a wild card spot in '15.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 06:58 PM) No, we're comparing baseball players to baseball players. That is incredibly flawed logic that uses looks at correlation and assumes causation, as in, Alexei Ramirez is the reason the White Sox have not won. Frankly, that's got as much base in fact and logic as "they haven't won anything of significance since they started wearing their red pinstripe throwbacks or their 80s throwbacks." Because it's true - they haven't won s*** since wearing those uniforms - so that must be why they've been losing, right? If you had said this instead: there would have been no argument from me whatsoever. That's obviously what I meant and have stated several times in this thread already. I like Alexei and he's been a good player for us, of course he's not the reason this franchise hasn't won anything. But as you alluded to, if you're realistic you realize he's most likely not going to be around when this team will be competing for a WS therefore making him an obvious trade candidate.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 06:49 PM) there is huge problems at other part of the team. Exactly! And how does a team get better? You either A) sign/trade for veterans with inflated contracts that you will inevitably regret, or B) you trade the veterans you have for more talent that can help you in the future. Do you really want to travel down path A again? Pretty sure we've seen that same song and dance before with KW in control.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 06:46 PM) Please try to use this argument in a serious manner in defense of trading away Adam Eaton, Chris Sale, Jose Abreu, and Jose Quintana. When any of those guys turn 33 and have only 2 years left with the team I will gladly do that for you. Until then you are comparing apples to.....skyscrapers.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 06:19 PM) The prize for having a good SS, is way bigger than having prospects. Got ya, so that's why we've been winning so many games with Alexei....oh wait.