TheFutureIsNear

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 31, 2015 -> 03:08 PM) Say Gordon gets $20M per year. Which two free agents would you rather sign for that money? Not sure that $20M goes as far as you think. Howie Kendrick to start at 2B for 8 or 9 mil per + Garrardo Parra, Austin Jackson, Ah-Seop Son, Jon Jaso, David Freese.... And depending on which guys you go with you might be able to get a good 2nd lefty for the pen too. I honestly do not see Alex Gordon as the bat this offense needs to get over the hump. If we were to sign him and no other major additions I still don't see us as a playoff team

I really wanted Adam Lind...that would be looking pretty good right now too

He's a nice piece to have on any team obviously but I'm not sure he's the big contract bat we need for this lineup. The $90+Mil he's likely to get is a break the budget move that may or may not even make us a playoff team in my opinion. I'd rather sign 2 starting position players for the $ Gordon will get

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Oct 31, 2015 -> 09:27 AM) You don't want to trade Micah but where are you going to play him???. He did "rake" when he was sent down but he went down because of his defense. His defense at Charlotte was not any better which is 2 seasons at AAA he has struggled defensively. I just think an organization that was decent at developing talent would have found a way to use Micah by now. If we aren't going to figure it out and use him then maybe we should trade him at this point....I just hope its not just for the sake of trading him because they don't know what to do with him or how to develop him.

QUOTE (GREEDY @ Oct 30, 2015 -> 05:27 PM) How valuable are our prospects? I've been reading everyone's "plans" for this offseason and almost every post includes shipping off 3-5 of our top 10 prospects for a superstar player (Frazier, Longoria, Arenadolol etc). The first time I read that we/people/whomever are skeptical that Anderson can stick at SS, I was like "Trade him now", but plenty of teams don't even need a SS, and the ones that do ALSO KNOW he might not stick at short. The Sox have as big of a hole as any team in baseball at 2B (and I like Sanchez), and the majority of White Sox Internet Nation are ready to give up on Micah... but then they package him up in pretend trades and expect actual value in return. I don't get it. I'd like to put a realistic, in-depth offseason plan together but I'm not sure I can just throw together "all of the prospects I don't need for this exercise" together and turn that into Todd Frazier.... thoughts? Considering the fact that it was his 1st season and he was hitting reasonably well when sent down...and then raked in AAA. I don't see how Micah's value is low by any means. A guy with an elite speed tool who has shown the ability to hit at every level is an asset. Obviously I'm not saying he's an elite prospect or trade chip by any means, but I think he's a pretty darn good 2nd piece in a deal. Personally, I don't really want to trade Micah unless it gets us an impact bat. Frankie Montas is a top 60 prospect in all of baseball as a starting pitcher with a plus fastball. That's a lot of value, and a Montas + Micah + 1 of our B level prospects is a good package in my opinion that would at least be a very good start to the conversation for a guy like Frazier imo. But of course no where near enough to get a guy like Arenado. Our B level prospects that I could see being traded that I think have some varying degrees of value: Jacob May, Tyler Danish, Chris Beck, Jacob Peters, Jordan Guerrero I also think there are teams that would have no problem taking on Avi. I've seen people talk about him like he's more or less worthless. He's still only 24, he's far from a lost cause and I'm sure there are gm's/scouts that still drool over his potential. I'm sure our track record for developing hitters is no secret and someone would take a shot at "fixing" him.

I want no parts of a big Wieters contract. He's got disaster written all over him. If he's not an everyday catcher he's a very average bat at a high cost and expecting him to be an everyday catcher into the 3rd and 4th years of a contract is unrealistic in my opinion.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Oct 29, 2015 -> 05:25 PM) I was thinking that the other day, regarding Utley. Not sure I'd prefer him over Sanchez, but he could be a decent option on the cheap. What is his D like these days? Not good, but not as bad as you'd expect for his age. He's can play 1B too and the Dodgers even somehow had him at 3B some(I live right outside of philly so I've seen him a ton). I wouldn't hate Utley on a 1 year deal, but he'd have to be a late "final piece" kind of signing after some bigger moves happened.

Just throwing it out there, but any interest in Jedd Gyorko if the Padres wanted to get out of his contract cheap? Since they seem to perpetually never have a 1B a Laroche + B level prospect for Gyorko trade make any sense?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 28, 2015 -> 04:16 PM) The guy has hit 50 homers in back to back seasons. No one has ever done that. Plus with power being at a premium around MLB, this guy will get paid. 300 K's in the past 2 seasons to go along with 50+ HR's is a little scary though....but I agree he will get paid. Probably not quite what Abreu got but something like 4 years $40M wouldn't surprise me at all. Obviously there is always the fear that he'll be a complete bust, but the middle ground of him having 20-30 HR power with the ability to hit better than .250/.330 is still plenty worth $10 million a year in the present free agent market. With all that said, I don't see us going after a 1b/dh type

QUOTE (beautox @ Oct 27, 2015 -> 05:27 AM) I've been thinking a lot this post season since my last offseason plan and this is what i think is both realistic and likely, looking forward to some spirited conversation with regards to this post. Last year the sox were 1st in the AL in fWAR for starting pitching(4th overall) and 7th for relieving(16th overall) total pitching the sox were 3rd in the AL(9th overall), and dead last for hitting. Seeing how around 40WAR got you into the post season this year and how at the all star break we were still in it, there is hope to be had. I would tender contracts to all ARB eligible players: Flowers, Garcia, Jones, Putnam & Jennings. Next I would decline Ramirez's option and pay the 1M buy out. With the free agents to be I would QO Samardzija, knowing he is going to decline, re-sign geovany soto for 2 years 6M and let Albers who was solid for us walk and beckham to never be heard from again. I think a certain subset of our fanbase would be very excited if we brought back the following players and if they're useful why not. Sign Mark Buehrle for 6.5M provided hes healthy and wants to play one more year. Sign AJ Pierzynski to a two year 7M deal with a 500k buy out. Lastly i would sign Steve Pearce to a 4M deal possibly with an additional option. I would look to make the following trades: C Tyler Flowers to Seattle for SS Brad Miller - Hahn has actively been trying to upgrade this spot for quite some time and the mariners are desperate for catching help since Zunino hasn't panned out. By installing Flowers as their catcher that is a swing of 1.2WAR, -.8 to .4WAR. Miller in the outfield has been a disaster for the M's and he isn't going to supplant Cano or Marte. Miller is a slighty above average defender at SS and 2B and can out produce Alexei for 1/20th of the cost. RHP Erik Johnson, OF Avisail Garcia & RHP Spencer Adams for 3B Martin Prado & OF Marcell Ozuna - Miami need young cheap pitching Johnson provides that and Loria has consistently shown a propensity for not wanting to pay anyone more than league minimum, taking all of Prado's salary and their outspoken outfielder in Ozuna solves some of their issues while giving them a lottery ticket in Avisail to play in left and a promising young arm in Adams in addition to 11M freed up to pay someone like Juan Uribe this offseason. Loria is on record saying he would trade Ozuna and Ozuna has had a down year in addition to being upset about how his major league service has been handled. LHP John Danks + 6M, 2B Micah Johnson & OF Courtney Hawkins for RHP Braden Shipley, LHP Cody Reed & UT Phil Gosselin - John Danks would've ranked second in fWAR and innings pitched on the d-backs staff, they've got some great young arms coming up but they need an inning eating stalwart to break their staff in. Johnson replaces Chris Owings at second base while fitting into their aggressive strategy on the base paths (2nd in SB overall in the league) and Hawkins is a change of scenery candidate going to a system that has had a lot of success in developing young hitters. Shipley appears to be a possible 3/4 on a staff in a year and a half, possibly two, Reed has a lot of potential but has issues with conditioning and is a long way away and Gosselin is a solid utility player. 1B Adam LaRoche for RHP Jonathan Papelbon. This is a bad contract / "cancer" swap, both are FAs after '16. LaRoche goes back to a place where he has had modest success backing up the oft injured Zimmerman and providing a left handed bat off the bench. The nats rid themselves of Papelbon and the sox get a high leverage reliever with a chip on his shoulder. Payroll comes in at approximately at $115.46M; thats including Alexei's buy out, dead money from Bonifacio & Peavy and the 6M sent along with Danks to Arizona. Less than the $118.8 from last year. Some believe the sox payroll can reach 130M, put me in that camp as well but the only long shot FA I would remotely pursue would be Jason Heyward and additional veteran 5th and 6th starter types to store at AAA in case of emergency or if Montas falls on his face. I firmly believe that Thompson has the possibility to be like Brandon Crawford and Randal Grichuk; a tools player made good on said tools even with mediocre minor league results. Moving Eaton and cementing Trayce in centerfield while adding Ozuna and relegating melky to DH and 5th outfielder drastically improves the defense; the amount that Cabrera, Eaton and Garcia gave away out there is sickening. The fact that the sox had the best starting pitching by fWAR in the AL is a testament to the staffs ability and why maybe we shouldn't be moving any of them and should be supplementing them with better defense across the diamond. Moving Cabrera who was -15 in defense to DH(-17.5) full time would barely be a decrease in his value at this point. Miller provides the sox with at the very least a utility man and bridge to Anderson with the potential for a solid regular to replace Sanchez if he falters. Understandably a lot of people are skeptical of Carlos Sanchez, but he is only 23 years old and a switch hitter. The fact that he had even modest success at the major league level in the second half should be very telling, the organization loves his glove and his bat should come along. Young hitters take a while, it is even more pronounced in switch hitters especially power. Carlos could be a fixture for the sox for a long time to come and I would like to see the sox give him a very long leash. This is some back of the napkin math and I look forward to hearing what others think with regards to what realistic expectations for WAR could be going into next year and defensive rating(this will be very crude and simple). DH - Melky - 1-1.5 WAR, if he is capable of producing his second half the sox will be in fine shape at DH. Defensively D- C - AJ & Geo - 1.5-2.5 WAR and C defensively I think we're looking at average and in the same area as Grandal and Lucroy and slightly above Flowers himself. 1B - Abreu - 4 WAR somewhere between his first and second full year and inline with his second half. D- defensively but luckily in this offseason plan we've got Steve Pearce to back him up late in the game and provide pop off the bench. 2B - Sanchez - 1.5-2WAR this him just duplicating his second half of the season and growing. A- Defensively SS - Miller - 1.5-2WAR putting him back at shortstop and a change of scenery could do him wonders. B- Defensively. 3B - Prado - 2.5-3WAR leaving him at 3B along with a wRC+ of 100 would do wonders for this team, in addition to coming to a more hitter friendly ballpark. A+ Defensively. LF - Eaton - 3.5-5WAR by moving him to left field his defense plays up we could be looking at an Alex Gordon like player if his second half is a precursor. Defensively in CF C- in LF B-. CF - Thompson - 2-3WAR I stand by why I think Trayce makes the step forward. Defensively A. RF - Ozuna - 1.5-3WAR a change of scenery could be what he needs to get back to the promise he previously showed. B Defensively. SP - Sale - 6-8WAR if ever there was a Kershaw clone we're blessed to have him on the team. SP - Quintana - 4.5-6WAR Continues to do a better impression of Andy Pettitte link. SP - Buehrle - 1.5-2WAR if he is willing and healthy no reason to think he wouldn't be a great addition to this team and give a certain segment of fans something to be excited about, plus he can retire a white sox at the end of the year. SP - Rodon - 2-4WAR I personally believe he reduces his BB/9 closer to league average and takes off and never looks back SP - Montas - 1.5-2WAR another young arm that will need to reduce his BB/9 to be successful, last year he threw just shy of 130IP I think the sox push him to the 150-160 mark. Bench Sans Geo (Saladino, Pearce & Gosselin) - 1.5-2WAR first time in a long time its a younger athletic bench that should offer some interesting traits offensively. Bullpen - 3-4.5WAR there is potential upside with Jones, Papelbon, Duke and even Robertson. On the low end this team looks like its capable of producing 39WAR right on the cusp of the playoffs and with plenty of money to spend midseason on acquisitions one way or another, with some maturation(Sanchez, Thompson, Ozuna & Montas) and possible break outs(Eaton, Quintana & Rodon) the sox could be in the thick of it. I don't hate your final product at all...I just think we'd be getting ripped off on the Miami trade though. Adams and Johnson is too much for Ozuna and 1 year of Prado imo. I'd much rather have 2 talented SP's locked up for a long time. I also don't think Miller can hit any better than Sanchez or Saladino can, so while Flowers is a pretty small price to pay, I'm not sure Miller brings anything to this team. And just no to Papelbon, maybe if we were desperate for relief help, but no thanks at this time. Very well thought out and obviously well done though, I'm jealous of the visuals lol. Also, didn't Buehrle already announce his retirement?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 26, 2015 -> 02:16 PM) Kang went from .356/.459/.739/1.198 with 40 homers and 117 RBI in 501 PA in his last year in Korea to .287/.355/.461/.816 in the US in 467 PA's. Just eyeballing, his US AVE and OBP stats were about 80% of what they were in Korea. His power number dropped off even more, at about 60% of OPS. Kang hit homers at less than half the pace he did in Korea. His doubles pace was also much lower. If that were to happen for this guy, he'd be looking at hitting about .265 with an OBP of .325 and an OPS around .525. Taking into account that his OPS couldn't fall that low with those BA and OBP's, he is probably looking at an OPS of around .650 to .700 on the high end, when you look at how low his power numbers were in Korea, and taking a decent cut out of them as well. His career highs for homers is 18, and only 28 for doubles. If he takes a hit like Kang, we are looking at around 10 homers, and 20 to 25 doubles, I would guess. Tyler Saladino put up a .602 OPS at 3B in his cup of coffee here, for perspectives sake. The only problem is that you are cherry picking an outlier career year for Kang. His 6 year totals are no where near the .359/.459 you used, nor would it be the 80% decline you're talking about. Aside from Kang's monster 2014 Son was consistently a better hitter for average and on base percentage than Kang was in Korea. Power I will give you though, it is fair to assume a significant drop off in power

Turns 28 this upcoming ST. Lefty who hit .330/.406/.472 over the past 6 seasons in Korea. Averaging 12 HR's and 16 steals over those 6 years as well. With Kang's success for the Pirates this year I don't expect Son to go nearly as under the radar as Kang did out of Korea. These guys are professional hitters. After Kang I've read that Son's contract could get into the 20 millions over 4 years, but to me that is a small price to pay for a guy who could potentially hit .300 with good on base skills and hopefully above average D(haven't read anything about his D). Anybody else think taking a gamble on him could pay off as a relatively cheap way to fill an OF hole for an extended period of time?

My plan would be a Sanchez/Saladino platoon at SS after declining Alexei for $10M. I think they would bring better D and similar offensive output for a fraction of the price. If we want another big bat in this lineup these are the kind of business decisions the franchise will have to make.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Oct 16, 2015 -> 03:34 PM) Longoria? Would seem like a Sox sort of move. Thought about him, but he still has a 6 year $100M extension that hasn't even stated yet. No thanks unless the Rays would eat a big chunk of $ and I don't see them as the type of team to do that.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Oct 16, 2015 -> 03:07 PM) For Frazier? Hah, then tell them to pound sand. Moving Fulmer, Anderson or Eaton for Frazier would be a comically bad trade for the Sox. And I like Frazier. Completely agree, I like Frazier, but he's not worth trading any of Q, Rodon, Fullmer, Anderson, or even Adams for. Montas would probably be the best prospect of ours I'd be willing to include. Montas, Hawkins, Michalczewski...I MIGHT include 2 of them + Beck and Micah/Avi(1 of them). Todd Frazier is not elite by any measure, he won't be cheap to get, but I don't see any team throwing multiple top 100 prospects around to get him either.

QUOTE (BamaDoc @ Oct 16, 2015 -> 12:45 PM) I have been looking also. Dietrich is a guy I also found and think would work. May need to be platooned and don't have great info on his defense or makeup. Maybe with Ozuna in a expanded deal. Supposedly Marlins want pitching. Would Montas and Garcia +/- lower pitcher/or reliever get Dietrich and Ozuna? PS Thank you for no Puig…..I think a head case who we could not handle. Some sort of Ozuna and Dietrich would definitely be a good start for us. And Avi and Montas might actually be too much in my opinion. I don't see the need to trade a top 55 prospect in baseball for either of those guys. Ozuna has had his own struggles at the major league level and seemed to fall out of favor in Miami, plus I'm not sure how much trade value Dietrich really has on his own. He's 26 and hasn't had a full MLB season yet. I would think Avi and Beck would be a good start to the deal with the 2nd prospect not needing to be nearly as good as Montas. Maybe Danish, but I would even try guys like Jacob May or Jordan Guerrero. Idk, maybe I'm overvaluing our players, but if we do involve Montas in our trade I hope its for a bigger package than Ozuna and Dietrich. Adding Ozuna, Dietrich + a guy like Valencia would be a cheap efficient way to improve the lineup while still keeping our core prospects though. Would add a lot of versatility too, just questionable if it would be enough to get us over the hump and into the playoffs.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Oct 16, 2015 -> 08:49 AM) Add Cody Asche to the list. Read an article with the emergence of Franco at third and an outfield that keeps getting crowded, he could be an odd man out in Philly. 25, left-handed hitting 3B that could probably be bought low. I live about 20 mins outside of philly so I've had the misfortune of watching a good amount of the Phillies....we don't want Asche as anything other than a utility guy. I don't ever see him being a legit major league hitter.

Was just going through rosters and the free agent list and decided to share my thoughts on the most realistic options for the Sox to target this off season. Feel free to post more guys you would like to see us REALISTICALLY target, or just who you like the most out of my list. INF FA- Ben Zobrist Howie Kendrick Daniel Murphy OF FA- Dexter Fowler Gerardo Para Colby Rasmus FA SP- Bud Norris Dillon Gee Ian Kennedy FA RP- Tommy Hunter Bobby Parnell Antonio Bastardo James Russell Trade Targets Todd Frazier Andre Eithier Scott Van Slyke Marcell Ozuna Derek Dietrich David Peralta Wilin Rosario Danny Valencia Derek Norris

We have a chance to have something very special in the rotation as soon as next year...don't ruin it. Beck, Micah, Danish, Avi, Hawkins...those are the 5 I would be looking to package for a bat, preferably 3B. And I think some kind of package involving at least 3 of those guys can get us a pretty good hitter. Combine that trade with 1 smart free agent signing and I think we will be in a much better position to compete with a bounce back year or 2. My suggestions in the "my offseason plan" thread was to use some form of the 5 guys I listed to trade for Todd Frazier and then make a signing like Daniel Murphy. CF- Eaton 2b- Murphy 3b- Melky 1b- Abreu 3b- Frazier Looks like a pretty good top 5 imo and completely feasible. Trading a guy like Q would be a last ditch effort if we aren't competing by the ASG next year. I don't think we are far enough away to do that at the moment though.

QUOTE (Mike F. @ Oct 8, 2015 -> 09:16 AM) I'd love Peralta or Inciarte, but they'd require a huge haul in return. They'd probably need Q plus prospects for either one. Tomas is too expensive for what he is, so I'd pass on him. Surely you have to be referring to some other Q, because there's no way you think it would take Jose Quintana + for 1 of Peralta or Inciarte. Jose easily has more value than either 1

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Oct 7, 2015 -> 07:25 PM) That would be a steal for Van Slyke. I fully expect some major hero worship on Todd Frazier this fall and winter. And the Reds will probably have him on the block. The reality is that, despite(or perhaps because of) his performance in the HR Derby, his 2nd half OPS was a dreadful c. .670. Not that I suspect this to dissuade the Sox: bad 2nd half splits never have before. He's also a bad defender (much worse than his metrics suggest). And if the Sox get him (and I dearly hope they don't), they'll pay more than you suggest for 2 years of his greatness. I don't see why you're so worried about a 2nd 1/2 split of a 29 year old with a career .784 OPS. And that's including his horrendous 2013 which is a pretty clear outlier. I'll take the chance that his career isn't going to fall apart at 29. Frazier is far from a perfect player, but I can't see why you would be upset if we acquired him. If he plays a decent 3B(I haven't watched him enough to suggest he's worse than his metrics)and can hit .265/.315/.475 with 30 bombs I would be very happy with the trade.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 7, 2015 -> 06:46 PM) Don't know if the Dodgers or anybody would want Danks without the Sox paying a major portion of his final year's salary. Don't know if they'd do that. Mark You don't think he could go to the NL West and be a serviceable 4th starter (4.2-4.4 era over 180 innings)? You're probably right, we would likely have to eat some money, but I don't think it would be a huge amount. I think Danks for 2 years 20M (we eat $10M) could appeal to a SP needy NL team and net is a utility guy like Van Slyke. Idk, maybe I'm undervaluing Van Slyke? The

Not going to attempt to calculate any #'s or guess salaries, but I think it should be fairly realistic salary cap wise Decline Alexei's option Tender an offer to shark DFA LaRoche (maybe some one takes him if we pay some $?) Trade Danks to Dodgers for Van Slyke and a low level minor leaguer Trade Micah, Beck, Avi, and Danish for Todd Frazier and JJ Hoover Sale Q Rodon Johnson Bud Norris Robertson Jones Duke Petricka Hoover Putnam James Russel Montas (starts the year in the pen as the long man, ready to take over if the Norris experiment doesn't work) C- Flowers/Soto 1B- Abreu/Van Slyke 2b- Daniel Murphy SS- Sanchez/Salidino 3B- Todd Frazier LF- Melky CF- Eaton RF- Thompson/Van Slyke/Shuck

Is Avi in pain...or is he just weird? Can't tell

Can we get Bassist back? Clearly better than shark