TheFutureIsNear

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 6, 2015 -> 09:32 AM) The great thing about posting trade, draft, and other signing ideas on a message board, is when your idea would work out, there is proof forever that you had or supported that idea. But what is even better is your bad ideas just go away like they never posted. In reality, you are stuck with your bad trade or bad signing or bad draft pick, or other bad idea if you where to do this for real. It is easy to say the White Sox will never be good, I also remember the mid 80s when people were saying you couldn't win NBA titles with the leading scorer in the league, that MJ didn't make his teammates better, and if the Bulls were serious about winning titles, trading a guy who it would have been impossible to get full value for, was the thing to do. No way is Chris Sale the baseball equivalent to MJ, but people here who want to trade him are doing so just for change sake not for team improvement sake. Once he is gone he is gone and if the prospects aren't as good as he was, you are in worse shape. I think if they were to deal in the reality of it all, the opinion of Sale needs to go by some would go away. If you go by Price and Greinke, teams in the open market would be willing to pay Sale about $20 million a year more the next 4 years than his contract calls for. How many players can you say that about? He is underpaid vs. the open market the next 4 years more money than what has been guaranteed in the biggest contract the White Sox have ever agreed. Expanding the payroll past $120 million seems a reasonable plan to get the team better. I don't know what the fascination is with some people of a $40 million payroll. Not sure about you, but I care more about the name on the front of the jersey than the back. Being a bad team with 1 of the best pitchers in baseball doesn't do much for me. The team isn't good enough and hasn't been for almost a decade now, and unfortunately there is no real end in sight. Something drastic has to be done wether you want to admit it or not. I'd personally much rather trade Q, but given the state of the franchise Sale absolutely shouldn't be off the table And my point about payroll is there is no evidence that says the payroll will be expanded that much. Expecting it to go above 130 is unrealistic in my opinion. Not to mention that we should all know by now that overpaying for veterans in free agency is a terrible way to build a franchise

A lot of you seem more worried about a perceived value than winning. This franchise has next to 0 position player talent and it isn't going to just appear out of nowhere. If anyone has a legit plan to make us a contender now and into the future that doesn't involve trading 1 of sale/Q or expanding the pay roll past $120M id love to see it. Because I've yet to see 1 yet.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 5, 2015 -> 09:25 PM) What positions do Davis and Fisher play? I know Tucker is an outfielder and Feliz is a pitcher. JD Davis is a 3B. '14 3rd round pick and hit .289/.370/.520 in High A last year Derek Fisher is an outfielder as well. Sandwich pick in the same '14 draft. Also advanced to High A last year and has a .283/.369/.468 so far in the minors with 48 steals

Can we just go back to the more logical move of trading Q? My newest proposal is with the Astros Q for Preston Tucker, Michael Feliz, JD Davis, and Derek Fisher

While quality is obviously important I think quantity also needs to be considered given the present lack of position player talent throughout the organization. 1 of Seager/Pederson would have to be involved, but I think I might take a package of lesser guys rather than trying to hold out for both. 1 of Pederson/Seager + 1 of kikè Hernandez/Jose Peraza, + Austin Barnes, + Scott Van Slyke sounds like a great package to me. Maybe even DeLeon too if it's Sale involved.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 4, 2015 -> 08:26 PM) How would this crush your dreams? There are so many teams looking for quality pitching still and everyone would love to have Q in their rotation. I don't think it's a matter of finding a suitor for Q, it's a matter of getting a good enough return for him to pull the trigger on a deal. I just thought the d backs lined up as the best fit of a realistic trade. Would have loved some sort of package involving at least 3 of Inciarte, Peralta, Lamb, Drury, Peter O'Brein, Randall Delgado. Maybe it's not dead, who knows.

Wonder if this crushes my dreams of us trading Q for 2-3 MLB ready hitters.

Going to need another starter after we trade Q right?

Think I've been advocating a Danks for Ethier swap for about 3 years now lol...Ethier probably upped his value by having a good year so I'm not sure a 1 for 1 swap makes a ton of sense. Although, an easily attainable 17.5M vesting option in '18 for Ethier is a little scary. Dodgers would have to eat a lot of money and in doing so they'd probably want something decent in return. They need pitching depth though so maybe Danks + Beck makes sense for them hoping to fill their 5th spot in the rotation while still saving a couple million on Ethier this year. Ethier + $12M(? end up somewhere close to 3/ 40M for '16-'18 for us) for Danks and Beck?

Can Yunel Escobar even play SS anymore? I know he was decent early in his career, but he was the worst defensive SS in the league in '14 and didn't play the positional at all this past year. Not sure he could be penciled in at SS next year unless there was a reason for his really bad D in '14 that I'm not aware of

Jake Lamb or Brandon Drury. Fill a need now and build for the future. AZ can't play both (maybe not either depending where Tomas ends up), so figure out how to get 1 of them. They need middle IF help so Micah could be a good start to a package...I'm sure it would take more than just him, but shouldn't be a huge haul.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 3, 2015 -> 11:42 AM) Sign C Alex Avila 1 year/2.25 million Sign C Dioner Navarro 1 year/TBA (3-4 million?) Sign SP Kenta Maeda 5 years/80 million (includes 20 million posting fee) Resign SP Jacob Turner to a minor league deal Trade 1B Adam LaRoche, SP Frankie Montas, SP Myles Jaye and RF Avisail Garcia to the Rockies for LF Carlos Gonzalez Trade SP Tyler Danish, SP Erik Johnson, and 3B Trey Michalczewski to the Reds for 3B Todd Frazier Lineup: CF Adam Eaton (L) 3B Todd Frazier 1B Jose Abreu LF Carlos Gonzalez (L) DH Melky Cabrera (S) RF Trayce Thompson C Dioner Navarro (S) SS Tyler Saladino 2B Micah Johnson (L) C Alex Avila (L), 1B/3B Mike Olt, OF J.B Shuck (L), 2B/SS Carlos Sanchez (S) Rotation: SP Chris Sale (L) SP Jose Quintana (L) SP Carlos Rodon (L) SP Kenta Maeda SP John Danks (L) RP Jacob Turner (long man) RP Zach Putnam RP Jake Petricka RP Dan Jennings (L) RP Zach Duke (L) RP Nate Jones CP David Robertson Thoughts? Doubt that package even sniffs Frazier. Reds have no real reason to trade him this offseason in the 1st place, but if they do there will plenty of competition because of the lack of other 3B available. And I still can't understand why people want to give up assets for a guy who isn't very good away from Cors and is owed $20M in '17. No thanks on Cargo unless they are chipping in a good chunk of change for '17 and aren't looking for much in return.

QUOTE (spiderman @ Dec 3, 2015 -> 10:15 AM) Does Carlos Sanchez grade out as a good defensive 2B? How does he project defensively at SS? I'm not convinced at all that he has a major league bat that can be in the lineup everyday, but he could be a 1 year stop-gap at SS (while waiting for Anderson) if there were to make a move for Fernandez. How much money will this cost? Is he a good offensive player, more of a defensive player, etc? I would think Saladino would get 1st crack at SS over Carlos if we don't bring anyone else in. His defense is superior to Carlos at SS and both have very questionable bats. Probably the best and cheapest scenario is a platoon with both rather than wasting $ on a guy like Asdrubal Cabrera or someone like that. Should be improved defense over Alexei and hopefully they can't do any worse than on offense than he gave us for 3/4 of the year.

Well definitely didn't see this coming. Wonder what Hahn has up his sleeve...

Ehh...I mean if he's a final piece type of guy after acquiring bigger pieces, sure I'd take him. I'm just really afraid of the FO signing Span and Freese and trying it again with more or less the same roster. To me that's worst case scenario. The defense and hitting on the roster is broken and needs to be fixed. Band aids won't do the trick.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 2, 2015 -> 10:39 AM) I think it's more about what kind of shape you're in. If guys who can only play infield and guys who can only play outfield can play until they're almost 40, why can't a guy who does both continue to do both? I'm not advocating the signing of him but just thought I'd bring that point up. How many guys are still playing good defense past 35 though? I can't think of many. Declining athletic ability is 100% inevitable and usually starts at around 35. Maybe Zobrist continues for longer, but you'd be betting against a lot of history of the opposite. And I'm not trying to imply that Zobrist is suddenly going to be useless or anything like that, but his days of being a + defender at almost any position are very numbered in my opinion. But then again, if Daniel Murphy is going to get paid 15+M per year, Zobrist probably should too. But in the end I wouldn't sign either so I guess it all depends on personal opinion.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Dec 2, 2015 -> 09:52 AM) I'll contrast him to Victor Martinez. I hated the idea of signing V-Mart at a very similar age and price last offseason. Zobrist is different in that he is not coming off a career year and he is not restricted to one (non-)position. He's the anti-Martinez. I have to wonder if the decline in his defensive numbers last year was real and age-based, or just a blip. But his bat has always been really good and I expect it to stay good. In a vacuum I'd be okay with 4/$60 for him, but the state of the Sox should have them avoiding old guys in general. when a guy is 35 I'm not sure you can write off declining defense as a blip. Father time catches up with everyone. He might have 1 year left as the guy who can play anywhere, but I'd be very afraid I was signing a 2B only for 3 years $45M. Zobrist's bat is good, but not sure it's that good heading into his twilight years

QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 08:27 PM) Q is a much better pitcher than Miller, I think a 1:1 swap would be pretty close. Would love Pollock. I too would love Pollack, but if his value is really that high I'll pass on 1:1 just because of how many holes we need to fill. Trading Q for just 1 hitter would be a failure in my book. If we could get 2 of Peralta/Inciatre and Lamb/Drury I'd be pretty happy though. 1 of each seems to be expendable for the Dbacks with no DH and a need for their expensive investment Tomas to get on the field. Dbacks have a few other interesting guys that seem expendable to them as well. I'm hoping we can get a deal done with them.

If he was a competent C he would have a job and not passed on by every team in the league. If it's a minor league deal, sure, but anything other than that and I'd pass.

Only 2 options I see this team being good in the next year or 2 and sustaining that success into the future 1. Trade 1 of Sale, Q, Rodon 2. JR opens the payroll up to 140+ million And I wouldn't count on option 2...

The only way a Miller trade makes sense is if we trade Q 1st and then circle back to help our staff out...Wonder if a starting package of Micah, Avi, and Montas even gets us in the door though? I will say that advanced stats really don't like Miller (big FIP difference in all 3 years) and a move to the AL and our ballpark could be a pretty bad mix for him. I wouldn't sell the farm for 2 years of him.

mlbtraderumors had an update on the great Balbino by the way. Apparently he is running already and will continue baseball activities in January. Guess hes not so much of a risk...someone will take him for sure

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 07:11 PM) Honestly, most of the trades the Sox have made where they dealt away prospects, they haven't really turned into anything (besides Gio). Other ones that have made an impact in the MLB that come to mind are Chris Young (the OF one) and Chris Carter. Even in the Peavy deal when we traded like 4 prospects away, the best guy is a fringe long reliever at this point. I think that should be a pretty telling sign that the real problem with this organization and developing talent in the past starts with actually picking the talent and not developing it. Not that the developing part has gone swimmingly either, but it gets a lot harder to develop talent when the talent is flawed from the beginning.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 30, 2015 -> 05:45 PM) Based on what? Thompson's 800+OPS and impeccable defense when he played? Sanchez' first year, where he too played excellent defense? And yet somehow we are supposed to believe that Brett Lawrie is a plus player in this league???? Bottom line is Sox fans as a group, just like the front office, have zero patience with youth. Zero. They would much rather trade them all in for players who are proven to be mediocre. Thus, in my 48 years of following this team, there have been 5 playoff appearances. Five in 48. But we had those veterans and plenty of heroes. So let's go do another Swisher trade for Lawrie. Because Saladino and Trayce could barely hold their own for the most part in the minors. Expecting them to be capable hitters in the majors after failing to do so in the minors is bordering on stupidity from a player personnel stand point. I'll be pretty shocked if Hahn puts out an opening day roster with either as more than a utility option. Like I said, Sanchez may be able to play 2B and hit enough to not hurt a team, but he's unspectacular at best. He has next to 0 power and his speed isn't an elite tool. Usually doesn't equate to a long MLB career as a regular but we'll see.

I think people really need to come to grips that guys like Saladino, Thompson, and probably even Sanchez are all nice guys to have as backups, but aren't going to be good starting caliber players. Maybe Sanchez can be a league average 2B, but even he is probably better off at UTL. The sooner this is accepted the better