TheFutureIsNear

A little mind boggling to me that most of you would rather trade more prospects for Cargo and his contract. The same Corrs ?'s apply to Cargo as Blackmon and Dickerson...Cargo has just been taking advantage of Corrs longer. We shouldn't be trading for what a guy did in 2013 either. Cargo hasn't been elite since then. 2 years 37 million + at least 2 of our really good prospects is way too much for him in my opinion. The injuries scare me a little with Dickerson and I'd imagine they'd still want a pretty good package back for him as well. So that leaves me with Blackmon as a left handed hitter who can bring above average D to LF with good speed on the bases and 10-15 hr's at a cheap price through '19. I wouldn't expect him to reproduce his Corrs #'s with us, but a regression to .270/.330/.400 with 30 steals and 12 HR's with a huge boost to our LF D is still pretty damn valuable to us. If they would do a package of Montas and 1 of Engel, May, Guerrero for him I'd do it in a heartbeat.

I assume Blackmon would be the easiest to get? Wonder if it would take much more than Montas? I would do Montas + May/Engel. But as always you have to be cautious about what you're getting away from Corrs though.

Trade Q, Laroche, and Avi to Houston for George Springer, Colin McHugh, and Colin Moran- my thinking is that Houston would rather get their pitcher they need without spending $100+M so the 1 year of Laroche is pretty manageable. Plus it looks like LaRoche could actually get some AB's with their 1B situation. Sign Gerrado Parra 2/16 M Eaton CF Melky DH Abreu 1B Springer RF Parra/Thompson (Trayce vs LH) LF Lawrie 3B Avila/Navarro C Micah/Sanchez 2B Saladino SS Sale Rodon McHugh Johnson Danks Turner Kahnle Jennings Petricka Duke Jones Robertson I'd love to put any one of the big free agent OF's instead of Parra and go for it all. Just tried to keep it realistic.

QUOTE (shakes @ Dec 11, 2015 -> 09:38 AM) Not really. Brian Anderson was an accomplished college player and a mid first round pick. He tore through the minors with big numbers and was a top 50 prospect in baseball. As a prospect he had it all speed, power, plate discipline, and gold glove defense. People are saying some players save their best for MLB, but who are they? Who else spent 6 years in the minors with pretty poor offensive minor league numbers and then went on to be a good MLB player? What is easy to show is players who had a good 150 at bat stretch and then reverted back to the player they always were. I was speaking more about the hype he's getting from fans rather than the actual play on the field. Should have clarified that The funny thing is that he didn't even have a good 150 AB stretch. It was more like 30 ridiculously good AB's followed by 90-100 bad ones. He managed to save his overall slash with his last 30 or so AB's, but take away his fluke start and he hit right around what you would expect a player with his minor league resume to hit. But I guess it's easier to ignore that part of the story.

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Dec 10, 2015 -> 08:33 PM) That's an extremely unfair comparison for Thompson. He had 122 at bats, had a slash line of .295/.366/.533/.896 w/ 5 HRs and great defense. Let's give him a real chance & see what he has. I apologize for being realistic about the situation. Any reasonable person can actually look at Trayce's numbers with an unbiased eye and realize his chances of being a stater aren't great. It's not my opinion, it's statistics. The Anderson comparison is unfair I admit, but I was speaking more in terms of hype than play on the field. I think Trayce will definitely find a home on our team and shouldn't be traded at all...I just think that his home is as a defensive replacement/spot starter. Going into the season with him as a starter and no replacement plan besides Avi/Shuck would be a big mistake in my opinion. Unless we aren't spending $ for a playoff push....

I have a feeling Trayce is the new Brian Anderson. Just going to keep hearing about that defense and how he just needs a chance... I'd be more than happy to admit I'm wrong though. If Trayce can figure out how to stick as a (decent) major league hitter it would be a huge boost for the franchise.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 10, 2015 -> 07:47 PM) Maybe I'm confused -- what does that have to do with overvaluing the defensive contributions of a RF? Not a whole lot on that topic, but still on the discussion of defense being overvalued in my opinion. I originally had a longer message but my phone magically deleted it lol...essentially it suggests that defensive position is probably over valued in calculating war due to the fact that it hasn't been updated to the modern game. Only a .6 difference in war between Chris Davis and Jason Heyward according to that more up to date model. But I'm assuming someone such as yourself would laugh if a team gave Davis the same contract as Heyward but 2 years shorter. With increasing K's and advanced scouting that have shifts on every other at bat the idea of paying a guy based on defense is a gamble I wouldn't take. I don't think Heyward is worth a dime over $130M personally, 7 years 18M per. Guess we'll see who's right in the long run.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 10, 2015 -> 03:34 PM) There's been some talk/research over the last year or so about this -- there appears to be substantial evidence that the impact of a plus CF vs a plus corner OF is quite overrated. Essentially, when you control for catchability, zone overlap, and the actual difference between the high end defenders and low end ones, the CF doesn't receive nearly as many extra chances as people assume. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/does-outfie...ctually-matter/ Funny, I started doing some research after I posted that and found this really interesting article on fangraphs as well. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/are-we-unde...he-slugger-now/ Your article did make a good bit of sense though as far as the CF/RF thing goes, although in my opinion I'd say they are assuming kind of a lot with some of their #'s. Kinda shocking to me that we are still using data that is a decade+ old to evaluate current players though. Like I said, a like of the sabr stuff still goes over my head, but I don't think it takes a mathematician to figure out that the game has changed pretty drastically since the early 00's.

So much emphasis on defense...for a RF'er? If I'm responsible for paying an OF'er that isn't a huge run producer (Heyward isn't) he damn well better be 1 of the best defensive CF'ers in the game. I just don't see how a RF has that much impact on the game with his defense honestly. Maybe it's a crude/out dated way of looking at the game, but I just think defensive metrics have gone way out of control. Especially when we are talking about non premium defensive positions. And I am aware that Heyward is more than capable of playing CF, but there just isn't a large enough sample size of him doing it especially well for the kind of investment he's going to get in my opinion.

I would take a risk on either Fuenmayor or Blash as RH DH platoon options if either lasts til 10. I think we have the flexibility to carry an extra guy like that with Saladino, Sanchez, and Trayce having great versatility defensively. If not I always like the option of taking a kid who can throw 98 and seeing what happens. I've seen enough from the likes of Putnam, Webb, Carrol, ect to take a risk on someone new

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 10, 2015 -> 12:48 AM) I wonder if the Sox change things up and talk to Cinci about Jay Bruce. He wouldn't cost the Sox top prospects, his contract should fit within the sox budget and provides power from the left side. Bruce makes 12.5M in 16 with an option for 13M in '17 with a 1M buyout. I'd rather find someone else but Bruce wouldn't be the worst option either. Only slight problem is that Jay Bruce forgot how to hit and isn't good in the field either. He's been a negative player for 2 straight years.

I don't think Corbin is comparable to Rodon honestly. And Q is better than Miller by pretty much every statistic you could use.

Anybody think Montas, Micah, Avi, and Jordan Guerrero gets it done for Frazier? And if so would you want to do it from our side?

I'm guessing people saw JB and just assumed shuck. Not sure why Oakland would want him. But this is a great deal either way. Really surprised that's all it took

Don't know why but I have a bad feeling about this...

Dodgers have some pieces available I would think. Enrique Hernandez, Jose Peraza, and Alex Guerrero all seemingly don't have a starting spot. None are great obviously, but all are interesting in their own right at different values. I'd imagine the Dodgers would like to unload Guerrero at this point, but he has a decent price tag and can opt out after being traded. We'd have to get him to agree not to do that before acquiring him.

I don't see how a non-playoff team with arguably the worst minor position player talent in all of baseball can be talking about trading their best prospect. Just makes no sense to me. There's no 1 player that is going to turn this team into a WS contender, so unless he's part of a Q package, or something along the lines, that nets us 3-4 top prospects back Anderson shouldn't be discussed.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Dec 9, 2015 -> 10:53 AM) I agree with you 100%. If the Sox would have traded Trayce for Lawrie a year ago this site would have been ecstatic. Then Trayce comes up and plays well in just a small handful of games and suddenly he's the future? It seems that people like to ignore the fact that the guy put up just low .700 OPSs in the minors and is actually 3 months older than Avisail Garcia who most on this board have written off and who had vastly superior AAA numbers. Trayce is a 4th OF until he proves otherwise as far as I'm concerned. The potential is obviously there, but how many guys have ever succeed in the majors after being unable to hit effectively past high A? I'm sure there are some examples, but most have probably been after a change of scenery though.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 9, 2015 -> 08:57 AM) Me too, although I'm leery of what it would cost the Sox in terms of prospects. Beane trading a player (Reddick) going into their last season before FA would be a very Beane-like thing to do. There's always Montas....I know we shouldn't be looking to trade a power arm like his, but if he isn't going to have a rotation spot this year and we aren't going to commit to him in the bullpen then I think we should seriously consider moving him now while he has a good amount of value. Never know what could happen if we let him sit in the minors for 1 more year, plus we still have Adams and Fullmer behind him. But you're absolutely right. Getting a guy like Reddick would be a much better idea than spending 100M+ and losing a draft pick on Upton. Does Montas, Avi, May, and Guerrero get us Reddick and Lawrie? May/Guerrero could be changed to their liking, but no one inside our top 8 prospects.

Avi, Engel, May, Webb, Putnam, Beck, Lowry, Leyer, Wheeler, Wendelken, Fry, Jaye....Just keep the package to 1 of those OF's and 1 of those pitchers and it's a good deal for us. Hopefully Hahan doesn't deviate too far from a package like that.

The good thing about Lowrie is that it shouldn't stop us from looking for a true 3B. Sliding Lowrie over to 2B and getting a slugging 3B (who can also field) would probably be ideal. May not happen this offseason, but just something to keep in mind.

Ughh...we needed a package like this. I really hope Hahn didn't turn any calls down from AZ for pitching. He also should be making it loud and clear across the league Q is available. A package like this (and Q is better than Miller) can seriously turn this franchise in the right direction...and quickly too

cardinals definitely have a curious roster right now...something else has to be coming.

I hope the Cubs do get Miller. That way Hahn has leverage on a Q trade to AZ. Bring back our new starting 3B + a starting OF along with a pitcher and all of a sudden the franchise is heading in a new direction and we still would have $ to spend Eaton LF Inciarte CF Upton RF Abreu 1B Melky DH Lamb 3B Avila/Navarro C Saladino SS Sanchez 2B

Probably grasping at straws but, Could the Nats possibly have an interest to get LaRoche back? They have Zimmerman at 1st, but he hasn't played 100 games since 2013. Plus they obviously need help in the locker room so a vet like LaRoche could make some sense.