TheFutureIsNear

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 12:29 PM) I would prefer to stay away from ethier. He needs to be platooned. That package you suggesting is going to be more then alexei from the sox. I would also stay away from Semien at 3rd. He has 14 errors in 50 appearances there over the last 2 years. 33 appearances in 2014 and 10 errors alone. Until he fixes his defense there I would be worried. Personally, I think you are underrating Eithier a good bit. Part of a platoon isn't that big of a deal when you are talking about a LH OF. He will still get an easy 500 PA's if he stays healthy. I'm not putting much stock in his #' in 2014 because of the situation he was in...in 2013 he hit .294/.394/.460 against righties in just under 400 PA's. Even if you want to say he's regressed a decent amount since then I think it would be hard to argue that he could give us a .280/.360/.420 type of season while playing at least adequate D in LF. That's a pretty valuable player if you ask me... And Semien better learn how to play 3B and 2B at least adequately or he's going to have a hard time finding any playing time at all. I think he will be fine there playing against LH pitchers only though. There isn't anything that I'm aware of in his skill set that should keep him from being able to at least hold his own at 3B. He was a young guy playing a position he's unfamiliar with, errors are going to happen.

I still think Eithier is the way to go for us, not Kemp....Either + $15-20M of his remaining $56M, 1 of Van Slyke/Schebler, and a young bull pen arm like Chris Winthrow, Paco Rodriguez, or Yimi Garcia for Alexei makes the most to me. We could then go out and get a cheap guy like Stephen Drew for SS if we are really that worried about Semien/Sanchez's D. 1. Eaton CF 2. Micah/Semein 2B 3. Eithier LF 4. Abreu 1B 5. Laroche DH 6. Garcia RF 7. Gillaspie/Semien 3B 8. Flowers 9. Drew/Semien Not bad at all if you ask me....just add a #3 SP and 1 more bull pen piece and we would definitely compete for a playoff spot.

If I were Hahn and I'm trying to win right now I would try to snatch up both Victorino and Nava for peanuts. I'm sure Boston has no use for either and would be happy to not have to pay them.

Can we actually just turn this into the Boston Redsox trade thread? I'm not sure exactly what they would want from us but they have a ton of talent with out a spot right now...They have Betts, Bradley Jr, Castillo, Cespedes, Nava, Craig, and Victorino all competing for 1 or maybe 2 spots. Like I said, not sure what we would have to offer them, but they sure do seem like a nice trade partner.

Forget Cespedes....the guy can't hit. If we are trading for a Boston OF I would want Victorino. Also seems to be an odd man out, and also is a FA at the end of the year. Switch hitter who is a good corner OF'er and gets on base at a decent clip. This is all provided he can even pass a physical at this point though...not sure what his health situation is like at the moment.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/11/athl...ed-hitters.html I know it's not as much of a priority anymore, but I would think we would still have interest in Reddick and Jaso. A's are looking for middle infield and that's the one spot we can afford to lose a guy or 2. Sounds like something to keep an eye on as it makes sense for both teams to at least discuss a deal.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Nov 23, 2014 -> 12:27 PM) I'm not against the proposed trade. Cahill + 6M for Snoddy? Sign me up. Cahill would only cost the Sox 6M and if the Sox do not like what they get, they buy out Cahill for a mere 300k in 2016. Not that big of a risk and I like the idea much more than Masterson. Yeah that deal would be an absolute no brainer for us. $6M is not a lot to take a chance on a bounce back scenario for a fairly young SP with a history of success.

I would definitely trade for Fowler and work out an extension with him. He would be absolutely perfect for us in the #2 hole....switch hitting high OBP guy who would likely be a + defender in LF. According to the article the asking price isn't that high, but they are looking for bullpen help...something we don't exactly have a ton of. Bassitt and Webb for Fowler and give him a 4 year $48M deal right away?

Despite being a finalist for the Gold Glove Alexei was pretty poor in every defensive metric you look at. -Fielding bible gave him a -10 rPM(+/-) runs saved - he had only a .734 defensive zone rating (he was in the .830's in his prime) - His UZR was -.7 (in the +10's in his prime) So honest question....given a natural slight decline due to age in Alexei would a platoon of Semien/Sanchez really be THAT much worse than Alexei next season? It's an honest question that you have to consider.

Ummm.....Brandon McCarthy. Why? I have no idea

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 08:47 PM) But LaRoche doesn't prevent us building for the future. He costs us nothing but money and is blocking no one of importance (sorry Andy Wilkins). Also, I think Hahn believes a lot of key pieces are already in place. We have legit #1 & #2 starters, one of the best hitters in baseball, and a very good leadoff guy. We are obviously not a finished product by any means, but if Hahn can fill our major holes with capable veterans and a few of our young, non-proven players like Avi, Semien, Rodon, etc. take that next step, we have a decent chance of being a playoff team. Burning cost-controlled years of Sale, Quintana, Abreu, & Eaton by refusing to sign/trade for veterans is by far the worst thing we can do IMO. Like I said, not a huge deal. I'm not worrying about it... We'll agree to disagree on a lot of that though, except I'm in complete agreement that we have a great nucleus to build around. In my opinion we are like 3/4 of the way through the rebuild and there's no point in not finishing it. I'd much rather wait it out and build something potentially great than add veterans for a wild card run and cross our fingers from there. If it were up to me this would have been another off season of trying to add as much young talent as possible. But we'll see what happens....its early still and anything can happen.

QUOTE (daggins @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 08:34 PM) This is just money. There is no deviation from building here. It does in a way...can't go back from here. The idea of trading Alexei goes out the window, and even dumping Danks for a minimal return is also probably not going to happen either. And if you spend this $ on a 35 year old you pretty much have to spend the rest of whatever may be available the next 2 years or its an extremely pointless signing....I don't doubt we will still continue to build through the draft and international signings with Hahn in control, but I think this definitely signifies that the rebuild is over and they are focused on winning in the immediate future. And I don't think its quite the time for any of that for the record.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 08:25 PM) What direction would you prefer? Keep building for the future. Like I said, it's only 2 years so there isn't a ton to complain about, but I'm just not a fan of stop gap old players at this point. Unless Hahn has something big still hidden under his sleeve that would make us legit contenders...

Mehh not the direction I want to see the team going in honestly....but 2 years $25M isn't going to hurt anything so I won't complain

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 07:27 PM) I know you didn't mean this for me, but I am going to say something here. I believe the sox intentions is to compete this yr and I believe the sox do have the horses to make it to the playoff. And your're certainly entitled to your opinion, nor am I here to tell you that you're wrong. I'm just a guy stating his opinion after all. And It's my belief that this team truly has a very bright future with a great nucleus to build around. I just think the front office has to be patient and see this rebuild all the way through. I want this team to be building for multiple WS run starting in '17, not hoping for a wild card spot in '15.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 06:58 PM) No, we're comparing baseball players to baseball players. That is incredibly flawed logic that uses looks at correlation and assumes causation, as in, Alexei Ramirez is the reason the White Sox have not won. Frankly, that's got as much base in fact and logic as "they haven't won anything of significance since they started wearing their red pinstripe throwbacks or their 80s throwbacks." Because it's true - they haven't won s*** since wearing those uniforms - so that must be why they've been losing, right? If you had said this instead: there would have been no argument from me whatsoever. That's obviously what I meant and have stated several times in this thread already. I like Alexei and he's been a good player for us, of course he's not the reason this franchise hasn't won anything. But as you alluded to, if you're realistic you realize he's most likely not going to be around when this team will be competing for a WS therefore making him an obvious trade candidate.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 06:49 PM) there is huge problems at other part of the team. Exactly! And how does a team get better? You either A) sign/trade for veterans with inflated contracts that you will inevitably regret, or B) you trade the veterans you have for more talent that can help you in the future. Do you really want to travel down path A again? Pretty sure we've seen that same song and dance before with KW in control.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 06:46 PM) Please try to use this argument in a serious manner in defense of trading away Adam Eaton, Chris Sale, Jose Abreu, and Jose Quintana. When any of those guys turn 33 and have only 2 years left with the team I will gladly do that for you. Until then you are comparing apples to.....skyscrapers.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 06:19 PM) The prize for having a good SS, is way bigger than having prospects. Got ya, so that's why we've been winning so many games with Alexei....oh wait.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 05:31 PM) Go back and look at that list of MLB SS's who started for teams during the time Jeter was the starting SS for NYY. That is why people are afraid to let Alexei walk. Who cares? Is there a prize at the end of the season for having a good SS that I'm not aware of? Last time I checked it's all about having the best overall team and the W column. And Alexei isn't Jeter, not even close.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 04:30 PM) And he will. It doesn't mean he has to deal him. Sooo what's the alternative? You let him play out his contract and watch him decline like all SS's do in their 30's and watch him walk? Honest question....is it a sentimental thing with Alexei? He's been here for a while so people don't want to see him go? Or is it that people think we are gong to compete next year?

For what it's worth Buster Onley ranked the top 10 SS's in baseball in an insider article today. http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/buster-olney/post?id=8669 According to the article he ranked them...."Through conversations with team evaluators, general managers and our own statistical analysts" to come up with this list. The list...and I'll put a breif synopsis of why each guy is ranked where they are according to Buster 1. Simmons- Basically he's by far the best defensive SS in the game is still young and fairly cheap. 2. Peralta- He's top 5 in both OPS and defensive runs saved among SS's the past 3 years. 3. Desmond- His combo of speed and power makes him a "dynamic" player 4. Tulo- If it wasn't for injuries he would be clear cut #1 5. Hardy- GG defense and 20 HR power make him one of the best 6. Crawford- Didn't say much....just that he's consistent and saves runs on D 7. Aybar- Consistent hitter who puts the ball in play and doesn't K 8. Alexei- (copy and pasted whole excerpt) He has some value in the trade market (see below). Justin Havens of ESPN Stats & Info sent along this note about his defense and offense: “He may be slipping defensively, at least as measured by defensive runs saved -- he’s gone from +14 to +1 to -4 since 2012. Also, through the end of May, he was hitting .329 with a .479 slugging percentage; after that, he hit .243 with a .370 slugging over a span of 423 plate appearances." 9. Escobar- Likened him to Hardy...consistent all around 10. Castro- shows flashes but his D is bad and isn't consistent enough Well there it is....feel free to pick it apart. And remember to save all rude comments for Buser Olney. I'm just the messenger.

a player has 1 bad year and he's pretty much dead to this board. Bruce had a fairly serious knee injury and it affected him all year. You can't just pretend like the guy didn't have an OPS above .800 the 3 years before last. If he was 34 it would be a serious concern, but he's freaking 27 and people are saying things like "deteriorate and decline"? There is such a thing as a down year.

Would anybody do Avi, Semien, and Montas for Bruce?

I would do my due diligence on him, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say he was DFA'd for a reason. 2 Tommy John's is rough. I'd say there's a good chance he 'll never even be close to the same.