TheFutureIsNear

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 05:31 PM) Go back and look at that list of MLB SS's who started for teams during the time Jeter was the starting SS for NYY. That is why people are afraid to let Alexei walk. Who cares? Is there a prize at the end of the season for having a good SS that I'm not aware of? Last time I checked it's all about having the best overall team and the W column. And Alexei isn't Jeter, not even close.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 04:30 PM) And he will. It doesn't mean he has to deal him. Sooo what's the alternative? You let him play out his contract and watch him decline like all SS's do in their 30's and watch him walk? Honest question....is it a sentimental thing with Alexei? He's been here for a while so people don't want to see him go? Or is it that people think we are gong to compete next year?

For what it's worth Buster Onley ranked the top 10 SS's in baseball in an insider article today. http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/buster-olney/post?id=8669 According to the article he ranked them...."Through conversations with team evaluators, general managers and our own statistical analysts" to come up with this list. The list...and I'll put a breif synopsis of why each guy is ranked where they are according to Buster 1. Simmons- Basically he's by far the best defensive SS in the game is still young and fairly cheap. 2. Peralta- He's top 5 in both OPS and defensive runs saved among SS's the past 3 years. 3. Desmond- His combo of speed and power makes him a "dynamic" player 4. Tulo- If it wasn't for injuries he would be clear cut #1 5. Hardy- GG defense and 20 HR power make him one of the best 6. Crawford- Didn't say much....just that he's consistent and saves runs on D 7. Aybar- Consistent hitter who puts the ball in play and doesn't K 8. Alexei- (copy and pasted whole excerpt) He has some value in the trade market (see below). Justin Havens of ESPN Stats & Info sent along this note about his defense and offense: “He may be slipping defensively, at least as measured by defensive runs saved -- he’s gone from +14 to +1 to -4 since 2012. Also, through the end of May, he was hitting .329 with a .479 slugging percentage; after that, he hit .243 with a .370 slugging over a span of 423 plate appearances." 9. Escobar- Likened him to Hardy...consistent all around 10. Castro- shows flashes but his D is bad and isn't consistent enough Well there it is....feel free to pick it apart. And remember to save all rude comments for Buser Olney. I'm just the messenger.

a player has 1 bad year and he's pretty much dead to this board. Bruce had a fairly serious knee injury and it affected him all year. You can't just pretend like the guy didn't have an OPS above .800 the 3 years before last. If he was 34 it would be a serious concern, but he's freaking 27 and people are saying things like "deteriorate and decline"? There is such a thing as a down year.

Would anybody do Avi, Semien, and Montas for Bruce?

I would do my due diligence on him, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say he was DFA'd for a reason. 2 Tommy John's is rough. I'd say there's a good chance he 'll never even be close to the same.

Yeah no thanks on Laroche. He'd be a mediocre stop gap at DH. Not the best use of resources.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 19, 2014 -> 10:15 AM) The White Sox have no reason to have to trade Alexei Ramirez. -They have publicly stated they are now looking to win this year (even if you don't believe it, which I don't think it is realistic). -Ramirez is under team control for up to two years at a HUGE bargain to what he would pull on the free agent market right now. My guess is he would be in the neighborhood of a 5/75 type deal if he were currently a FA. -The Sox have no payroll squeeze where they need to move the salary off of the books. If we don't get a big offer, there is literally no good reason to move Alexei. If we don't trade Alexei this year, either now or at the deadline, then we have a 34 year old SS with 1 year left on his deal...and then you get into the obvious that he's getting older and is due for regression sooner or later. Like it or not, this team most likely not going to compete for anything serious in 2015. All this nonsense that we are going to spend $50+M on free agents and go for a world series isn't going to happen. And quite frankly, I really hope it doesn't. That's not how you build a good franchise, and with the pieces already in place we(Hahn) has a chance to build something special if done the right way. Alexei is the last older player we have with any value and if you're realistic you realize he won't be around when this team is going to be true serious contenders. Getting the most you can for him now makes a ton of sense when you are thinking about what is best for the team in the long run.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 19, 2014 -> 09:11 AM) Ewwwww. A completely lateral move, no salary savings at all, and Alexei sent out for a bullpen arm. This isn't Jed Hoyer trading with the Cubs right before being hired by them. Lol hate to break the news to you, but you're expectations are really far removed from reality. You should just prepare yourself to be disappointed already.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 19, 2014 -> 07:15 AM) Alexei for Schebler and Ethier's contract? That's a horrible deal for us. No one is taking Ethier unless the Dodgers eat some serious money. That's just a bad use of our most valuable, tradable asset. I think a more realistic trade would be something like Either + about $18M or so in cash, Schebler, and Jose Dominguez (24 year old bull pen arm that can reach 100) for Alexei and Danks....maybe we can get 1 more prospect, not sure, but I can definitely see a deal like that getting done.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 08:12 PM) There's no one outside of their top guys that it benefits our team to take. It's a massive downgrade to the 2015 white sox no matter what they do to replace him - the free agents are worse than Alexei and might cost almost the same, the young guys we have are pretty weak SS candidates. Why on Earth should the White Sox do that unless it's a really big 2016 upgrade? I think you have delusions of grandeur for this team next year. We aren't going to be WS competitors next year...we are talking about the same 73 win team right? I expect upgrades and improvements, but this team needs to still have a future WS run in mind. A run that Alexei won't be apart of. Zach Lee Schebler Jose Dominguez Darnell Sweeney Chris Reed Alex Guerrero All of those guys are very interesting and sure would help our system out. 3 of them + Eithier(and cash) for Danks and Alexei and I would do it in a heartbeat.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 08:04 PM) Then the dodgers better be willing to hang their hopes for a playoff ride next year on the likes of Asdrubal Cabrera or Stephen Drew, or to spend 9 figures on Hanley Ramirez. They get to choose which thing they're willing to do. Or they could just make a reasonable offer that Hahn takes because it benefits our team?

I can think of a few reasons to trade Alexei now....and any thought of Pedersen/Seager is flat out ridiculous. Friedman would laugh and then hang up.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 04:16 PM) No. If we're not getting a top flight talent back, do not trade Alexei. What exactly is the point of clearing Danks's contract out if it leaves us without one of our best players and 2 more holes as a result? We save $23 million by clearing Danks and Alexei, great, but now we have only $23 million to spend to find a replacement starting pitcher and a starting shortstop. That's a completely lateral move at best and quite possibly a move that makes the Sox worse. Does John Danks really leave a hole? Yes, hes a body that can throw a decent amount of innings, but so can a lot of guys. Losing Danks in any deal should be the least of our worries. Now Alexei? I guess it comes down to whether you think this team can actually be a serious contender by the time his deal is done or not. Obviously you want to get a good return for him because he is indeed 1 of the better SS's in the game, but at the same time his value could never be higher than it is right now. If we keep Alexei and only win 80 games this year I will personally be upset at the wasted opportunities to trade him. I still think this team has a ton of work to do and should still be looking bigger picture.

Duke's splits as a reliever only...129 IP, 3.28 ERA, 1.26 WHIP, Opponents BA .249, 2.74 K/BB, 73.3 LOB% He'll be a good addition....as long as the contract isn't crazy. But I trust Hahn enough for him to do anything stupid on a guy like Duke. Edit: Just saw the contract and its not a great deal necessarily but nothing to complain about either. Not bad at all

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 01:00 PM) I'm hoping to improve the team, not just swap deck chairs around. No idea why people pretend like Either is a bad player. Just because he has a bad contract it doesn't make him a bad player. He's never had a bad season when given even semi-regular AB's. He has a career .821 OPS. If he was given 450-500 AB's for us he could easily hit .270/.330/.420 with 15-20 HR's and above average D in left. He's way overpaid but still WAY more valuable to our team than what Danks would be.

QUOTE (bmags @ Nov 18, 2014 -> 12:50 PM) I get that Danks sucks, but considering where we are in rebuild, I really don't want to waste trading a player I really like and we can't replace easily for a bunch of old, bad, expensive outfielders just to....I'm not sure what this accomplishes. Oh yay, we have Ethier breaking down in LF for 2-3 seasons. Yay. Watching Danks groove 86 MPH fastballs over the plate is better? Eithier would be a lot more valuable to this team than Danks next year....as long as the $ equals out or is close.

Yeah Joc Pederson for Alexei ain't happening....not even close. Alexei + Danks would about offset Kemp $ wise for the next 2 seasons and he's due an additional 63.5M the following 3 seasons. So Alexei and Danks for Kemp and $30 million?? I'd do it.

I agree on 4/15 per on Melky....and even that seems like a bit of an overpay but that's the beast that is free agency nowadays.

Yeah good luck with that deal Toronto....I'd be pretty pissed if we signed Martin to that deal.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Nov 17, 2014 -> 01:43 AM) Yeah, but a trade with the Dodgers and their expensive OF would probably be a lot harder to make than a Santiago-Eaton type deal for a team's extra AAA/MLB OF. If I were to trade for a Dodger OF, not necessarily for 2015 (unless he dominates spring), I would target Scott Schebler. The dude had 65 XBH last season (28 HR, 23 2B, 14 3B) in the AA-Southern League, which I believe it a pitcher's league. The power hitting lefthander just turned 24 and he's the Dodger's 3rd best OF prospect behind Pederson and Verdugo. I'm sure it won't take much to get him considering he's about 7th or 8th on their organizational OF depth chart. I'd like to throw him in to AAA Charlotte next season and see how he does. EDIT: I should also mentioned that from A+ to AA, he increased his walk rate, home runs, SLG%, and cut down his K rate. A 19% K-rate is pretty nice for a 28 HR guy. He hit .280. Then he played in the fall league that just ended and batted .310 with 5 HR in 23 games. This is a good plan....if you aren't expecting to seriously compete next year. If JR/Hahn are really wanting to make a run next year they aren't going to make moves like this, but instead go after an expensive vet. Personally, I would be all for taking shots on guys like Lambo and Schebler and use 2015 as 1 last rebuilding year, but I guess we'll find out in the next few months.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Nov 15, 2014 -> 04:37 PM) Well, I've said plenty of times that Alexei's defense is not easy to replace, at least not from within the organization. I did some looking around at SS rankings and found this... http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/end-of-se...ues-shortstops/ Just for the record, I never look at fangraphs and know nothing of the site but I did find their rankings to be quite interesting. Perhaps I am under valuing Alexei but I'm coming from the angle of how will he be in the future if I'm a team interested in trading for him. Being 33 he will begin to decline, could be 2015 or a few years from now, we don't know. If one considers these rankings to be pretty close then a case can be made for selling high on Alexei while the Sox can, before regression happens. Unless the Sox plan on sliding him over to 2B/3B in the future or let him walk in FA after the 2016 season. As I said before, this is the year the Sox s*** or get off the pot when it comes to deciding Alexei's future with the team. As for Greene. Yes, he is projected as a #4/#5 starter but the kid has very good downward movement on his fastball and slider hence all the ground balls which is a good thing at the cell. He's also starting to throw a cutter which Coop could help with as well as help with developing a changeup. As of right now, were hoping Noesi can handle the #3 spot in the rotation and in my opinion Greene already has better stuff than Noesi. I'd feel much better with Greene pitching #3 than Noesi and I really like what I saw from Noesi last season and believe he will continue to improve but I still see him as more of pretty damn good #4/#5. I'm not arguing that this may be the best time to trade Alexei, if the package is right I'm definitely moving him. But Greene is just not that package in my opinion. I don't doubt that Alexei is a top 5 SS in the game and that should come at pretty decent price. Make it Greene, Jose A Ramirez, and an A ball OF (a talented long shot) and we can talk.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Nov 14, 2014 -> 01:10 AM) I think the best the Sox could hope for is JR Murphy or a prospect of equal value. I cannot say it enough, Alexei does not have the value people would like to think he has. Put it this way. If I were looking for a SS, I would not be willing to give up too much for Alexei for reasons I've already listed in this thread. Honestly, I'm not so sure I'd give up Greene for Alexei straight up. Won the silver slugger award, finalist for the gold glove, plays arguably the most important position on the field, and is only owed $20 million dollars over the next 2 years. That player has a good amount of value. You're acting like good SS's grow on trees. You don't trade a top 5 or 6 SS in the MLB for a #5 starter. That's crazy. I think the other NY team would be where an Alexei trade comes from anyway. They reportedly had an agreement to trade for Rollins already but Rollins nixed it with his no trade clause. Not sure what the Mets have to offer to be honest, but they seem intent on being competitive this year so I can see Hahn getting them to overpay.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 12, 2014 -> 08:12 PM) here is a question I been meaning to ask. why do we need a closer. the sox have another yr of grooming in Jake Petricka - Zach Putnam. Putnam isn't a future closer in my eyes..good but not great stuff. Petricka? Ehh, i don't know honestly. Maybe. Having Petricka and Miller at the back of the bullpen would be pretty damn good though. That I do know.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Nov 12, 2014 -> 07:51 PM) Matt Thornton was one of the best relievers (left handed or right handed) in baseball before we tried to turn him into a closer in 2011. I'm just saying: just because a guy can pitch in innings 7 or 8 doesn't mean they can do it in the 9th. I'm fine with doing that experiment on our pitchers, but paying a guy closer money to do something he's never done before is risky. Signing ANY reliever is risky. Its just the nature of the business. Personally, I trust my eyes and my eyes tell me that Miller has some of the best stuff in the league. And is 4/32M really that bad? A good set-up guy like Gregerson would probably cost 3/18 at best for us. If we hope to compete anytime soon the bullpen has to be vastly upgraded one way or another.