OmarComing25

I don't really see any realistic Trout trade where they end up with better value than Trout is currently providing though.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:10 AM) I love the term "fleece" for trades when absolutely no one has any idea what any of the prospects will do or even Sale/Eaton over the next few years. Granted, I understand that an analysis of a trade is boring when you say "check back in five years," but the reality is that, no one knows today who won the deal. "Sensible" is a good word to use because ya the move made sense for the Red Sox as a team in the win-now mindset. At the same time, I'm not sure I agree with only looking at the end result when evaluating trades. If the Angels GM got possessed by a demon tomorrow and traded Trout to the White Sox for Courtney Hawkins, and then Trout suffers a career-ending injury in spring training while Hawkins becomes an MVP candidate with the Angels, that was still a horrendous trade for the Angels. And if a trade makes a lot of sense at the time but doesn't work out, it doesn't mean it was a bad trade. This is not to say I think we fleeced either team.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:49 AM) That isn't the conversation that was being had. How is it not? We'll be looking to compete by 2019 at the earliest, and Moncada should be ready to help by then. He fits in well with the timeline. And 2019 won't be his first full year, so it will allow him some growing pains before we're ready to compete.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:46 AM) When you are putting together a time line of when a team can compete, it does. I am not writing him off, I am saying the idea of when he will be a contributor shouldn't be pushed too far forward. Moncada got 200 ABs at AA, 0 at AAA and bombed at MLB. Bregman, in addition to being older, and having played in the US all of his life, started slow, but recovered to put up much better MLB numbers. Personally I believe you have to look at Bregman as being at least a year ahead of Moncada in terms of being able to really help an MLB team out. If you are going to use specific players as a reason for competing, I think you will be able to pencil in Bregman long ahead of Moncada, even if Yoan eventually passes up Bregman down the line. Why does that matter if we're not looking to compete the next two years anyway?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 10:37 AM) If there is one thing that we have been taught in this off season is that the guys you are dreaming about aren't available. Realistically, who are you talking about? Moncada was available, and I'd rather have him than Bregman anyway.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 28, 2016 -> 08:57 AM) You just put Reddit and knowledgeable in the same sentence. I post over at /r/baseball pretty frequently and I find the majority of posters there to be fairly knowledgeable baseball fans. Plus there's few other places you can find opinions from fans of every team that aren't full of mouth breathers like Twitter/Facebook.

QUOTE (peppers312 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 02:31 PM) is it at all possible that a sub-par White Sox team affects Quintana's value if he goes into the season as the #1? i mean what if the wheels come off because of a crappy team surrounding him and he has a bad year...? If a bad team was going to negatively affect Quintana, then we would have seen that happen already. Next year's team is still likely to be better than the team in 2013.

QUOTE (shakes @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 09:58 AM) Man is Cameron phoning it in these days. Where to even start with how lazy that argument is? You choose wOBA as a single stat to make your argument? So, let's just ignore how much better Q has been the last two years, the defense behind him, the park he pitched in, the framing differences, the 70 extra innings he threw, the two years younger he is, the contract affordability, and most of all there is no argument that anything should be framed as Q vs. McHugh. It's what does Q do to their rotation, and team, as a whole? Yeah I'm usually a big fan of Cameron but that article was garbage. Using one stat to compare the two without accounting for any of the other factors that pitchers don't have control over? Bringing up unearned runs in a Fangraphs article? Saying Quintana isn't a fit because one of their current top three would only get one playoff start in a series (way to put the cart way before the horse Dave)? Saying Keuchel/McCullers are a reliable top two despite the year Keuchel just had and McCullers still having yet to throw more than 125 innings in a year? Saying their rotation will be fine because Steamer has Paulino and Musgrove as league average starters next year? So many problems with that article, c'mon Dave.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 04:17 PM) Benintendi, Swanson and Bregman are all better prospects than Torres is right now Torres could reach that level if he performs well in 2016, but he has never played above A+ ball How he performs this year in AA will be very telling as to where he stands as a prospect against significantly improved competition I know, I didn't say Torres was better than that group, just that in the eyes of some he's not that far off their level, so we might have to recalibrate expectations a bit on the additional pieces.

Both Callis and Law said Torres was going to be Top 5 or Top 10 on their updated lists. i know he's farther off than the other guys but that kind of ranking puts him only a step down from the Benintendi/Swanson/Bregman group if not right there with them.

QUOTE (BRIRO2017 @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 02:06 PM) Q gets traded to a GOOD team, and he's their number 1? His numbers are going to be way worse. If you don't understand that concept you are clueless. Even if we give you the absurd premise that Quintana has faced "zero pressure", do you have any evidence that it's more difficult to put up numbers on a good team versus a bad team? Hell you could argue that it's actually more difficult to put up good numbers with no pressure because it's harder to keep the same motivation, and pitching on bad teams means having to pitch over more handicaps like poor catchers/defense behind you, both of which Q has had to deal with plenty.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 16, 2016 -> 03:04 PM) Might be Top 2 after Q, Robertson, Jones, Jennings, Frazier and Melky are shipped. I'd be pretty disappointed if we weren't top 2 after all those players were moved.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 16, 2016 -> 02:09 PM) Do you know anywhere that accounts for this? Unfortunately I don't.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the author didn't discount present value. $20 million of surplus value 5 or 6 years from now is not as valuable as $20 million in surplus value in years 1 and 2.

I want the best talent too, but there's a reason TINSTAAPP is a saying, pitching prospects are a lot riskier. And if you're talking about rankings I believe pitching prospects are about equivalent in risk/value to position players ranked ~10 spots below them (there was an article on Fangraphs about this), so I'm willing to go further down the list if it means more position players at this point.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 13, 2016 -> 08:50 AM) Just because we traded him, lets not sell Eaton short...he has been a very good player for us. His best comparison would be a younger alex gordon in terms of good defense, solid hitting and on base skills with average pop, decent speed That amounts to a quality player. I wish him the best Yeah I understand why it happens but I don't want to root against/cut down players we trade away just so that we can say we won the trade. He might have just had a career year but Eaton is a damn fine player. I hope everyone we trade this offseason kills it with their new teams. Hell wherever Quintana goes is instantly going to be to be second favorite team.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 12, 2016 -> 07:40 PM) He gets on base but other than that he's a pretty unremarkable offensive player. I like Eaton and I think he'll do well in Washington, but he's been overrated by WAR. He didn't even have the highest OPS amongst Sox outfielders and he's never lived up to what his run game was advertised as. He's really more like Stephen Piscotty, Ender Inciarte, Logan Forsythe or Kole Calhoun than he is the absolute cream of the MLB crop. Those comps are pretty decent players though (no way top 15) and with Eaton's contract the Nationals will not be upset with him, but they aren't getting another 6.0 fWAR season on the backs of some pretty ridiculous throws from RF. To be fair I think you're underselling his run game. There's a lot more to baserunning than just stealing bases. So yeah he doesn't get a lot of steals but he's still an elite baserunner (Fangraphs ranks him 7th over the last two years in baserunning value). He's very good at getting that extra base.

Duffy is a flyball pitcher that gives up a lot of hard contact and saw his velocity decline this year as the season went on. It might actually be smart for the Royals to sell high on him. If his strikeout improvement doesn't hold he'll likely not be worth the price the Astros would need to get him. Quintana just makes too much sense. Pony up.

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Dec 12, 2016 -> 02:55 AM) This thread turned into a joke. +1 This thread went from positive/helpful to elitist garbage awfully quick.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 12:13 PM) This probably answers my question as I was not aware he had a projectable bat. He's talking about Collins, not Severino.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 10:46 PM) Don't get me wrong, I love Nate and I think he's awesome......but I don't think he has the trade value that we want to think he does. FWIW Dave Cameron thinks Jones should net a return similar to what Ken Giles got last year.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 11:26 PM) Anyone seen updated prospect rankings per team since the trades ? Curious to see where the White Sox are ranked now . Have to be Top 5 already. 4 in the top 50 (including #1 overall) and two more top 100 plus another on the verge. How many teams can match that?

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 09:49 PM) I see no way astros give up much, holding out hope that dodgers want Frazier and add Q. After the Hill signing I just don't see the Dodgers going after another SP. I know their rotation is injury-prone and risky, but they still have like 9 SP to choose from. They're probably set there.

Forget top 10, can anyone name 5 better farm systems right now? We could be tops easily when this is all done.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:40 PM) Jesus christ, what's with the strawmen? Did I ever say they didn't value defense? I said a team isn't going to give up the farm for a guy whose WAR has been drastically inflated due to RF defense. Maybe if he was a plus defender at CF, C, or SS. No but you said defense wasn't one of the main factors for why Heyward got paid so much. You keep saying he was an established player, but his established offensive production up to that point wasn't enough to nearly justify the cost. So you're basically arguing the Cubs paid extra due to potential. Raw power doesn't mean anything if you can't hit the ball in the air consistently.