pablo

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 12:40 PM) Not enough Franklin Perez mentions in these trade proposals. Think he's my most wanted piece aside from Tucker. Proposed it a while back and I think I might have convinced myself to lean more towards a Tucker, Perez + package over Martes, Tucker +. Would like either package, but Perez has some serious helium and there doesn't seem to be any question that he's a starter long term.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 01:29 PM) I don't agree on the OF. I think that the Rays OF is extremely overrated because of Kiermaiers defense. He is not a good player offensively and is really just a league average player (OPS+ - 104). I think Tilson could be league average but will give Kiermaier the benefit of the doubt since he has demonstrated ability. Cabrera is a much better offensive player than Rasmus, in RF Souza as a league average player will be better than whatever the Sox throw out there, but not enough to make up the gap between Rasmus and Cabrera. Dickerson is better than Garcia, I was thinking of Chris Dickerson instead of Corey. Chris is garbage and I thought he had caught on with the Rays (I haven't paid much attention to them). It's sad that we have to disagree on whose OF is worse lol. Can we just trade Q already!? I don't want to watch his starts this year just to hope he doesn't get hurt.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 12:43 PM) C - Soto >> Maile (Ramos is out at least until May and may not be able to catch) 1B - Abreu >>> Miller 2B - Lawrie > Franklin SS - Anderson = Duffy 3B - Frazier LF - Cabrera >> Rasmus CF - Tilson RF - Liriano DH - Garcia > Dickerson I think their lineup is worse. Probably the second worst in MLB behind the Padres. SP - Q = Archer SP - Rodon > Odorizzi SP - Shields SP - Gonzalez > Cobb SP - Holland >> Andriese I think the rotation is pretty much a wash. I'd disagree with you on: The Rays OF + DH is much better than what the Sox are throwing out there currently. Miller and Abreu are closer than what you are leading on (which is why he doesn't have much trade value beyond his name recognition) and Franklin and Lawrie are likely a wash. After Q and Archer, the Rays rotation is better as a whole as well with an improving Snell and Cobb more than a year removed from TJS. Andriese is significantly better than Holland which is more of an indictment against Holland. I would take the Rays team as currently constructed over the Sox, but the Rays play in a tougher division so it evens itself out. The Rays won 68 games last year and the Sox won 78. I wouldn't be surprised if they flipped this year to be honest, but I'll peg both for 73 wins.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Feb 2, 2017 -> 10:04 AM) In all honesty I like Laureano more than Reed. It's a fair deal for sure. I would take it for sure if they offered both Laureano and Reed instead of just one. Is there a good scouting report you can find on Laureano? I like him as well, but just based off his numbers last year (mostly in A+, but a good 30 game stretch in AA). Gotta love the OBP marks. I do see that Longenhagen at FanGraphs gave him some solid remarks at the AFL which is encouraging.

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 1, 2017 -> 04:03 PM) Doesn't Nightengale get tired of being our false rumormonger? At some point we gotta give that guy the goods. Its been a while I feel like. Weren't we feeding him the garbage robin justifications in sept too? In his defense, they might have "suddenly increased their pursuit" of Q. JD: Rick, haven't talked in a while. Have you traded Q yet? Rick: Nope, not yet. It's been really quiet unfortunately. JD: Okay, let us know if anything is close. And thus, Rangers sudden increased pursuit.

QUOTE (flavum @ Feb 1, 2017 -> 02:53 PM) All of this makes reaffirms my belief there's little chance he's with the Sox in two weeks. They're dropping more media bombs to force the issue and make the best possible deal before spring training. I'd agree. You cannot take a chance on either injury or poor performance taking a hit on Q's value and thus stalling the rebuild. You obviously cannot settle for a deal, but if there is a package that Hahn and Co. really like before ST then you got to pull the trigger.

QUOTE (bjm676 @ Feb 1, 2017 -> 02:43 PM) Bob NightengaleVerified account ‏@BNightengale 41s42 seconds ago More The Texas #Rangers suddenly have increased their pursuit for #WhiteSox ace Jose Quintana, but still unknown whether they will pull off deal. This has posturing with Astros written all over it. IIRC, Nightengale was in on the Pirates/Yankees 3 way that most here feel "broke down" on Christmas Eve.

QUOTE (bjm676 @ Feb 1, 2017 -> 02:43 PM) Bob NightengaleVerified account ‏@BNightengale 41s42 seconds ago More The Texas #Rangers suddenly have increased their pursuit for #WhiteSox ace Jose Quintana, but still unknown whether they will pull off deal. This has posturing with Astros written all over it. Interesting...still don't love their farm system much. I will take Yeyson Yrizarri just for the sake of the name.

QUOTE (Sleepy Harold @ Feb 1, 2017 -> 02:37 PM) George Ofman @georgeofman 1m Hearing the farm rich Texas Rangers are in the mix for Quintana. Oh boy. Cue the Rangers proposals! Haven't talked about them much lately.

QUOTE (bmags @ Feb 1, 2017 -> 01:40 PM) Holding out for packages from the dodgers results in not trading with the dodgers. Dodgers at this point seem like a team that doesn't ever feel like their trading partners are the ones in the drivers seat. Unfortunately, I'd have to agree as well. To me, there are such obvious holes at the front end of their rotation and the back end of their bullpen that both Q or Jones/Robertson make a ton of sense for them. They spent a ton of money this offseason for good reason to bring back Jansen and Turner. After Kershaw it's a bunch of 4's and 5's. Urias has a chance to be really, really good, but you might waste Kershaw's prime waiting for it to happen.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 31, 2017 -> 12:21 PM) The main issue with taking a package like that is that we essentially would be lowering the pricetag significantly for Quintana. If we would accept a depth package then over half the league should very much be in on him. Those are all nice prospects, but each come with some serious question marks. I am hesitant to deal a top 20 mlb starter on such a valuable contract for 4-5 "maybes". Our system needs depth for sure, but I'd rather acquire 3 very high caliber prospects than 4 good prospects and a draft pick We would be banking heavily on Tucker to reach his ceiling, and if he does not I'm not sure the rest of the package is enough to overcome that Quintana is a trade piece that can acquire a nearly untouchable prospect or two, and we should be looking for players that have potential allstar upside in return for him. Not just organizational depth Agree with you in that a depth package can open the bidding to just about every team, but for most teams it would be at the expense of losing all their depth. In looking at Keith Law's top 10 farm systems (which ironically doesn't include the Astros), 5 of the systems would likely have no interest in Quintana or have shown no interest - Padres, Dodgers, Brewers, Mets, Reds. The remaining 4 teams - Braves, Yankees, Pirates, Rockies - have all been mentioned as teams that are possible destination. If you take my or raBBit's suggested depth package, the 4 remaining interested suitors likely could beat the Astros if they tried hard, but quite possible they don't offer as much. Maybe instead they offer one to two premium prospects in which the Sox would then have to decide between a star package or a depth package. My point being is the suggested depth packages do not necessarily affect what we have already discussed in these threads as the interested teams likely remain the same.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jan 31, 2017 -> 10:26 AM) I don't think the Astros make that trade. Personally, I'd jump all over that. It's interesting, we've been talking about a potential Q trade seriously since Eaton was traded and with mostly conjecture even past that. Nobody has ever been a huge fan of the Astros headliners in Martes and Tucker and frankly I get that. Despite that, the Astros have so many exciting pieces to round out a package. To me, the only must have is Kyle Tucker. I like Martes more than most around here but there's certainly some risk there. If the Astros are going to be so adamant, at least in the media, that he factors on their 2017 roster and they don't want to trade him, fine, but just how much deeper a package are they willing to make to make up for it? Same goes for Musgrove. If they want to pick and choose their package for an elite value like Quintana then they would have to sacrifice a lot of depth and I think, given the Astros pieces, that could be a worthy endeavor for the Sox. If I am the Sox, I add anyone on the MLB roster that could help the Astros to get more players from the Astros. Their top lefty looks to be Tony Sipp. Throw in Dan Jennings. Start with Kyle Tucker. Then you go for four of David Paulino, Franklin Perez, Ramon Laureano, Derek Fisher, Garrett Stubbs, AJ Reed, Michael Feliz and the 75th pick. Paulino is a giant man who could be just as good as a prospect as Martes by July in my opinion. These rankings are so fluid and the profiles are pretty similar. I think Paulino has less of a chance to remain a starter but a man as big as him, with the lack of innings he has had to this point who is putting up such strong peripherals with such strong reviews on his stuff is an exciting prospect. He returned from TJS in 2015 and was outstanding. He reached full recovery last year and pitched damn well in some terrible pitching climates. He got suspended for the team for undisclosed reasons too so maybe some makeup concerns dilute his value to the Astros. Perez is all projection but could be very exciting if your scouts like him. Laureano is on base, speed, pop and tools. Fisher is a buy low, hear ready, power-speed OBP guy. Stubbs can receive, has a great arm behind the plate and he can get on base. I don't like Reed but another near-ready, buy low guy. I LOVE Michael Feliz. Trade for him now and he's a part of your ridiculous bullpen when you do compete again. Not the best bet or use of a Q return, but I am 100% in on Feliz and I am sure the Astros would be unwilling to include him. Value of 75th pick is obvious. If Sox could trade Q and Jennings for Tucker (2018/2019), Paulino (2017/2018), Laureano (2017/2018), Fisher (2017) and 75th pick I would do it. All of a sudden you have incredible outfield depth with Tucker/Laureano/D. Fisher, J. Fisher/Call and then some outside chance one of Engel/May/Tilson are something. I guess my rambling point - the Astros offer plenty of exciting depth. Maybe the Sox should expand and diversify their return and let Lunhow keep both of Martes/Musgrove for 2016. That's a done deal for me as well. Depending on how confident the Sox scouts are on Franklin Perez, I would take him instead of Paulino. Tucker, Perez, Fisher, Laureano/Stubbs and the 75th pick. It makes sense from the Astros perspective as well. They have tremendous OF depth in their system for essentially one OF spot in the big leagues with Springer and Reddick there for the foreseeable future. Additionally, they keep Musgrove, Martes and Paulino who are their two closest arms to the big leagues and could help in a playoff push this season. Teoscar Hernandez is ready to step into the OF in case someone goes down. From the Sox side, adding Martes or Paulino would be nice, don't get me wrong. But with Rodon, Giolito, Lopez, Fulmer, Kopech, Hansen etc, it makes sense to add a young projectible SP that could be in the next wave after these guys. And again, depending on how much the Sox scouts like him.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Jan 30, 2017 -> 05:50 PM) No reason to move Jose right now given that Moncada is critical to the future and it would behoove the Sox to do everything possible to make sure he's in a great state of mind entering this season. Moncada either steps into the bigs this year, holds his own (say coming up in July for a good 250+ PA run) or he stalls and his status as a potential superstar takes a big hit. If there is nothing on the table for Jose (now or at the deadline) that Hahn thinks is fair value, then yes, no reason to trade him. But somewhat foolish to hold onto him so he can babysit Moncada for the next few noncompetitive years. Moncada, and all of these prospects for that matter, will have to sink or swim on their own. A good veteran influence is nice, but not at the expense of failing to bring in more quality assets for the rebuild. I hate to use a Cubs example but that is basically what Rizzo had to do at the start of his Cubs career.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jan 27, 2017 -> 10:57 AM) This is nonsense. He does't put Moncada at #17 so people will talk about it. He thinks Moncada is the 17th best prospect in baseball. You people are nuts. I am sure he has his reasons for sliding Moncada down the list, but he's making a bold statement ranking him #17. And from that bold statement, he expects people like us to go out and tell our baseball friends that "Keith Law is crazy! He ranked Moncada #17" which in turn draws more readers to his article/list. And don't forget this is an insider article that requires a subscription. Beyond that, the general premise of my post was that we can't get worked up over these rankings because they will all be different so we'd be nuts if we took them as gospel.

QUOTE (heirdog @ Jan 27, 2017 -> 10:45 AM) Agree completely. For instance, if Gary Sanchez (after his phenom debut where he absolutely raked and stayed at catcher) were eligible and ranked, he would easily be #1. I bring him up because his GM said that Sanchez would have been the equivalent of Moncada if NYY were to compare w Boston's Chris Sale deal. Everyone's views are different and an opinion...don't get too high or too down about it. On the bright side, you could also take the pundits' rankings with a grain of salt and feel a little better about the fact that an actual respected GM who makes the deals thinks so highly of Yoan. Just like any opinion articles, these rankings are made for debate. Law gets more attention for ranking Moncada #17 as opposed to #1. Just the same as he gets more attention for ranking Kopech #7 rather than mid twenties like most publications will do. In my opinion, these ranking systems are like Mel Kiper or other analysts that do NFL mock drafts. They put them out a few times before the draft starts, but there is never any research afterwards to see if they were accurate or not. If there was an analysis of accuracy, I'm guessing Kiper would have lost his job a long time ago.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jan 27, 2017 -> 07:58 AM) I'd probably do an Albies/Acuna/Newcomb/+ for Q I would definitely do this as well. Three top 100 prospects - roughly one top ten, one top 50, one top 100 - seems about even to the Sale deal. Moncada and Kopech are top 20 most likely and Basabe would be around 150. I think Atlanta was/is just posturing, hoping the price came down far enough. There is little reason for them to trade for Q. Put this in the pipe dream category.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 24, 2017 -> 03:56 PM) Dahl + Hoffman is a start, but significantly more would have to be added to that deal I agree with add in Rodgers and we'd be moving closer to a deal Rodgers + Dahl + anything is better than the Sale deal. Dahl + Hoffman/Pint is a very fair start and probably would need another two B or C prospects. Hahn would be all over a deal starting with Dahl and Hoffman/Pint.

Maybe Hahn can take advantage and offer Robertson + cash for Willie Calhoun. He's got nowhere to play for the next couple years now. Could offer Jones instead and expand to Calhoun+

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 18, 2017 -> 05:56 PM) If this is the case, then all the more reason to keep Q. If the others blow out their arms the sox will need Q if they are going to be any good in 2 years. Definitely have to disagree with you. Like ptatc was saying, there is no reason for the Sox to have a firm "we have to be good again by X date". Rebuilds do not have a timetable, rather you acquire as many good assets as you can and hope they come together at a certain point. Keeping Q just in case Sox are good in 2019 is probably the wrong mindset. There is simply no way to expect when they could contend again, especially so early in the rebuild

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jan 17, 2017 -> 03:31 PM) Bregman obviously is not going anywhere Reed is blocked and is unlikely to crack the 25 man roster. I could see Houston being open to moving him, although they do not like the idea of selling low on him Baseball America re ranks the Houston system like this for 2017 1) Martes 2) Tucker 3) Paulino 4) Perez 5) Reed 6) Whitley 7) Hernandez 8) Gurriel 9) Fisher 10) Stubbs I'd imagine Laureano is shortly following that I know people are hoping for Reed in a deal with the Astros. And as you mentioned, he might be expendable. But another guy who had a "down" year for them is Derek Fisher. He hit .245 last year in AA with an alarming 28% K rate, but he put up a .376 OBP aided by a 16% BB rate. Throw in a month of games at AAA last year where he really raked and its not far fetched for him to put up a 260/350/450 line in the majors. Could be a really good time to buy low on an OF prospect who was a top 80 guy last year. Martes, Tucker, Fisher, and another SP prospect is a decent haul IMO. People underrate Tucker around here since he's only 19, but he could crack top 20-30 lists this year.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jan 16, 2017 -> 01:42 PM) Nobody is saying that but things change (See Sale and Eaton), and if you don't have a no trade clause then you're fair game to be traded plain and simple. Agreed. It takes two sides to make a deal. Seems like Duffy understood his injury history and wanted to sign a contract before something might have happened again. It was either sign now or bet on yourself to replicate last year again. I am sure either Duffy or his agent has an idea there is a chance he could be traded if things don't go as planned this year for KC. Lorenzo Cain is in the same situation with his contract, but he must want to test out free agency. I don't see how this is bad or fraudelent on the Royals part.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 06:34 PM) Yeah, no doubt about it. I think Future Sox has a thread for the '17 draft already so if we get really bored, we can spam that thread I suppose. OK, back on track... Again. Lol. With Ross signing in Texas I really wonder if the cubs jump into the mix for Q. I can't help but think that they have been sitting on the fringe the whole time and now that Ross has signed they will have to turn their attention elsewhere. As much as I want the signing to matter, I doubt Ross has much effect on the Q market. In a weird way Trumbo might have an impact depending on he signs with Rangers - might push Astros to do something. And if Colorado signs him, they might feel okay trading Dahl for Q.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 03:48 PM) After reading that bit by the scout, Acuna sounds like he could be a hitter like Dunn or Carter. Low BA, High K-rate and plenty of power. Now that I think about it, take away Acuna's walks and he looks alot like Tank on paper. I know Acuna has tons of helium but IMHO, he's only good enough to be a third piece in a deal for Q. I'm assuming you mean Demeritte's write-up? Also need to keep in mind that Demeritte's D is highly regarded. Fangraph's Longenhagen saw him in the AFL and had very good things to say. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/instagraphs...tes-october-21/

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 02:57 PM) Red flags exist for a lot of prospects. A 30% k rate is concerning, but much more concerning without walks. Kris Bryant k'd 30% of the time in AAA. He isn't just a good hitter he's an MVP. Demeritte has a 13% walk rate. High walk/High power, good d, high k is still a major leaguer. It's not enough to completely write him off as a 3rd piece in a deal. It sounds alot like a Javy Baez comp. I'd rather see Acuna as a 3rd piece but... Albies, Newcomb, Demeritte, Gohara/Fried? There's just a lot to choose from in the Braves system, it's crazy. Dustin Peterson is a guy that raked in AA this year and can't crack their top 10. Would probably between 7-10 for the Sox.

QUOTE (pablo @ Jan 13, 2017 -> 02:21 PM) Albies, Newcomb, Acuna would be a very enticing package to start with. Someone brought up Demeritte earlier and I would definitely have interest in him. He K's at a such a crazy rate though. I think it was north of 30% or something. But a package of Newcomb, Acuna, Fried/Gohara, Demeritte would be interesting depending on what you believe Acuna's future is. No "headliner" in the deal, but Acuna is rocketing up prospect charts. I retract my last proposal. Drinking the Acuna kool-aid a bit too much right now. Albies would need to be in a Braves deal.