Quin Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 03:47 PM) Anyone who follows the major league organization, not just the major league team, should be aware; perhaps not of Tatis specifically, but of the importance of those A ball players in developing an org. Once again see the Red Sox,Cubs, Dodgers: teams that actually developed great systems. Tatis was a WhiteSox bonus baby. They are still paying $9 million per for a pitcher with bad peripherals. I note with interest that the Jays are only paying $5 million per and Upton was having a good year (and Shields was not, to say the least). I wasn't lamenting tatis in my post anyway. My point is if they can get out of this essentially as a wash, they should take it and run. Considering Hansel Rodriguez made the Blue Jay's FutureSox equivalent's "Others of Note" section on their rankings, he was higher in their organization than Tatis in ours. http://www.minorleagueball.com/2015/12/30/...spects-for-2016 Therefore, you of all people should hate that deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 28, 2016 Author Share Posted July 28, 2016 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 02:38 PM) Here's how often people mentioned him before June this year. https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Asoxt...2F2016&tbm= Sorry, he was mentioned once. When signed. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...p;#entry3190653 Out of curiosity, if the Shields trade had never happened, what is your best guess as to where you would have ranked Tatis in the Sox system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 well the Sox valued him ($700,000) the same as our #7 prospect curbelo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 I just used Tatis' name for reference because that's what we gave up for Shields. I don't know much about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 03:51 PM) Out of curiosity, if the Shields trade had never happened, what is your best guess as to where you would have ranked Tatis in the Sox system? Northside is better to ask this than me, but I'd say high 30s to mid 40s. QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 03:55 PM) well the Sox valued him ($700,000) the same as our #7 prospect curbelo. That's not how Latin America signings work compared to the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 28, 2016 Author Share Posted July 28, 2016 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 02:55 PM) well the Sox valued him ($700,000) the same as our #7 prospect curbelo. Not really, no. It is a completely different set up and signing structure. If Curbelo had been an LA signing, he would have gotten a ton more money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 28, 2016 Author Share Posted July 28, 2016 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 02:58 PM) Northside is better to ask this than me, but I'd say high 30s to mid 40s. That's not how Latin America signings work compared to the draft. My guess was at the very end of the top 30, at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 I understand how the draft works OK, I'm just making a point. You don't pony out $700K to a 16 year old unless you think the guy *might* turn into something special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 04:08 PM) I understand how the draft works OK, I'm just making a point. You don't pony out $700K to a 16 year old unless you think the guy *might* turn into something special. Well right now most posters here are ready to write off Adolfo and he was signed for more and consistently rated highly by FutureSox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 28, 2016 Author Share Posted July 28, 2016 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 03:08 PM) I understand how the draft works OK, I'm just making a point. You don't pony out $700K to a 16 year old unless you think the guy *might* turn into something special. Sure. But that still doesn't change the fact that he wasn't considered one of the top players in Latin America, nor in the White Sox system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 Greenie and I and the other malcontents are not quibbling over Tatis, per se. we are complaining about constantly trading young guys for over-the-hill bums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 28, 2016 Author Share Posted July 28, 2016 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 03:25 PM) Greenie and I and the other malcontents are not quibbling over Tatis, per se. we are complaining about constantly trading young guys for over-the-hill bums. If guys like Tatis aren't going to become major leaguers, it isn't a bad thing to turn them into actual major leaguers. That is everyone else's point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 03:35 PM) If guys like Tatis aren't going to become major leaguers, it isn't a bad thing to turn them into actual major leaguers. That is everyone else's point. Why are they signing guys who won't become major leaguers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 28, 2016 Author Share Posted July 28, 2016 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 03:39 PM) Why are they signing guys who won't become major leaguers? The minors are loaded with thousands of guys who will never play in the majors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 yeah and hundreds who will be and dozens who will be stars. just nobody knows which are which when they are 18 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 28, 2016 Author Share Posted July 28, 2016 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 03:41 PM) yeah and hundreds who will be and dozens who will be stars. just nobody knows which are which when they are 18 years old. As opposed to one you KNOW will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 03:25 PM) Greenie and I and the other malcontents are not quibbling over Tatis, per se. we are complaining about constantly trading young guys for over-the-hill bums. Which has burned the Sox how many times? Basically never. The only dude who legitimately has been good is Semien, and while Shark was a bum for the Sox, he was hardly over the hill. Generally the Sox have traded away guys that never amounted to much of anything at the big league level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 I never claimed to know which one was going to burn them, but it will eventually. And which one of these trades for over the hill bums has accomplished anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 05:56 PM) I never claimed to know which one was going to burn them, but it will eventually. And which one of these trades for over the hill bums has accomplished anything? Jim Thome worked out pretty well. So did Peavy. Or are the bums only the ones that don't work out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 I'm not going to go tit for tat. Gio Gonzalez had a higher WAR in his control years than Thome did for Sox. The Sox have been bad for over a decade now. I don't have to defend that statement. Everybody can have an opinion, that's fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 05:34 PM) I'm not going to go tit for tat. Gio Gonzalez had a higher WAR in his control years than Thome did for Sox. The Sox have been bad for over a decade now. I don't have to defend that statement. Everybody can have an opinion, that's fine. Doesn't make the trade a bad one. Thome performed here. There was a chance Gio wouldn't develop the way he did being a prospect. Edit: if you want to argue a bad Gio Gonzalez trade at least make it the Nick Swisher one for f*** sake. Edited July 28, 2016 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 05:39 PM) Doesn't make the trade a bad one. Thome performed here. There was a chance Gio wouldn't develop the way he did being a prospect. Edit: if you want to argue a bad Gio Gonzalez trade at least make it the Nick Swisher one for f*** sake. Sox also don't make the playoffs with Gio instead of Thome in 2008. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 05:51 PM) Sox also don't make the playoffs with Gio instead of Thome in 2008. It amazes me that people try to argue the Thome deal being a bad one lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatchetman Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 It amazes me that anyone thinks winning 89 games and 1 playoff game in a decade is anything even worth mentioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmarComing25 Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 (edited) QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Jul 28, 2016 -> 06:11 PM) It amazes me that anyone thinks winning 89 games and 1 playoff game in a decade is anything even worth mentioning. In the context of the trade it definitely means something, but nice job moving the goalposts. If the Sox don't move Gio for Thome there's a good chance they have zero playoff appearances in the last decade, so why blame Thome for it? Edited July 28, 2016 by OmarComing25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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