I know everybody is probably stuck over in Trade Winds but thought I'd bring this up here. I, as much as anybody kind of want to see a trade for a sake of a trade. Not that it makes sense. I am just so frustrated as a fan. My levels have reached heights they've never been before. For the first time since 2004 I am no longer watching games daily. I mean, through it all, I've watched 120-130 games a year. Basically if it could be worked into my schedule I'd watch. I've bought season tix (partial) almost every year.. but now? Done. I've started watching Astros and Cubs baseball, or just any random game of solid teams because I enjoy watching fun, fundamental baseball. Robin, the FO, the players all have not done this.

 

Now besides my rambling anger I just brought up the 2012 prospect list.

Now, it has always been my belief that if you trade a Sale or Q you'll never win the trade. It's just not possible. And I think this list confirms it...

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2012/

 

Who cares what their rankings are? Dylan Bundy? psh. he's a nobody. Not even a top 10 prospect is a guarantee. So to me, how am I going to trust our FO and scouts to correctly identify the good ones in a trade? Our whole existence is being bad at identifying and developing talent.

 

Just saying maybe keeping Sale and Q isn't the worst. Mediocrity or not.

I know everybody is probably stuck over in Trade Winds but thought I'd bring this up here. I, as much as anybody kind of want to see a trade for a sake of a trade. Not that it makes sense. I am just so frustrated as a fan. My levels have reached heights they've never been before. For the first time since 2004 I am no longer watching games daily. I mean, through it all, I've watched 120-130 games a year. Basically if it could be worked into my schedule I'd watch. I've bought season tix (partial) almost every year.. but now? Done. I've started watching Astros and Cubs baseball, or just any random game of solid teams because I enjoy watching fun, fundamental baseball. Robin, the FO, the players all have not done this.

 

Now besides my rambling anger I just brought up the 2012 prospect list.

Now, it has always been my belief that if you trade a Sale or Q you'll never win the trade. It's just not possible. And I think this list confirms it...

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2012/

 

Who cares what their rankings are? Dylan Bundy? psh. he's a nobody. Not even a top 10 prospect is a guarantee. So to me, how am I going to trust our FO and scouts to correctly identify the good ones in a trade? Our whole existence is being bad at identifying and developing talent.

 

Just saying maybe keeping Sale and Q isn't the worst. Mediocrity or not.

That list is why I think the Sox deal Sale / Q in the off-season, because young major league talent becomes an additional chip (vs. just the minor leagues). It also highlights why you need to get quite a few talented pieces.

I know everybody is probably stuck over in Trade Winds but thought I'd bring this up here. I, as much as anybody kind of want to see a trade for a sake of a trade. Not that it makes sense. I am just so frustrated as a fan. My levels have reached heights they've never been before. For the first time since 2004 I am no longer watching games daily. I mean, through it all, I've watched 120-130 games a year. Basically if it could be worked into my schedule I'd watch. I've bought season tix (partial) almost every year.. but now? Done. I've started watching Astros and Cubs baseball, or just any random game of solid teams because I enjoy watching fun, fundamental baseball. Robin, the FO, the players all have not done this.

 

Now besides my rambling anger I just brought up the 2012 prospect list.

Now, it has always been my belief that if you trade a Sale or Q you'll never win the trade. It's just not possible. And I think this list confirms it...

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2012/

 

Who cares what their rankings are? Dylan Bundy? psh. he's a nobody. Not even a top 10 prospect is a guarantee. So to me, how am I going to trust our FO and scouts to correctly identify the good ones in a trade? Our whole existence is being bad at identifying and developing talent.

 

Just saying maybe keeping Sale and Q isn't the worst. Mediocrity or not.

 

That is a great example of why I'm extremely happy the Sox didn't budge on their asking price with Sale/Quintana. Even top 10/20 prospects have a 50% bust rate and only a couple turn into actual stars.

I will say, it seems like prospects are becoming more and more "sure things" with scouting getting better and better, due in party to technology.

 

But still, you need a good chunk of them. The Texeira deal needs to look like peanuts in comparison.

My first post aside ... not trading Robertson and a few of the smaller pieces is asinine though.

Waiting until you have the best informed, well made decision on Sale and Quintana (since they are not FA for a while) makes sense.

Not trading some of the other pieces? Dumb.

Robertson may not be at peak value right now, but I believe he'll net more this year than he will next year ...

My first post aside ... not trading Robertson and a few of the smaller pieces is asinine though.

Waiting until you have the best informed, well made decision on Sale and Quintana (since they are not FA for a while) makes sense.

Not trading some of the other pieces? Dumb.

Robertson may not be at peak value right now, but I believe he'll net more this year than he will next year ...

 

At the same time, we don't know what's being offered for Robertson, Frazier, or any other pieces. If all that's being offered are prospects that the Sox don't see as contributors then I don't blame them for holding on to them right now. None of these pieces are going to be FA's at the end of the season.

Edited August 1, 20169 yr by kevo880

I will say, it seems like prospects are becoming more and more "sure things" with scouting getting better and better, due in party to technology.

 

But still, you need a good chunk of them. The Texeira deal needs to look like peanuts in comparison.

Yeah, I really don't think they are becoming more of "sure" things today vs. the future. Maybe a little bit, but 2012 isn't that long ago and there is a pretty high bust rate on that list.

Well we also aren't, nor are we going to, win with the the team as currently constructed so what's the end game? You'd rather stick with what you know, even if it isn't good enough, than try something new and hope for the best? Of course no one knows if prospects are going to work out or not, but what we DO know is that the White Sox as a whole don't have enough talent. The nearly decade straight of losing should be evidence enough of this. But hey, let's just keep the same guys and make another run at it...surely we are only 1 or 2 pieces away

Edited August 1, 20169 yr by TheFutureIsNear

Yeah, I really don't think they are becoming more of "sure" things today vs. the future. Maybe a little bit, but 2012 isn't that long ago and there is a pretty high bust rate on that list.

 

Marginal improvements are being made, not massive.

When you go to the link click on top twenty by team and take a look…………..explains why we are mediocre!

My first post aside ... not trading Robertson and a few of the smaller pieces is asinine though.

Waiting until you have the best informed, well made decision on Sale and Quintana (since they are not FA for a while) makes sense.

Not trading some of the other pieces? Dumb.

Robertson may not be at peak value right now, but I believe he'll net more this year than he will next year ...

 

I basically agree with this. Robertson was just OK this year and, being on the wrong side of 30, he may be declining. That was the strongest argument for dealing him now. I also think that Gonzalez should've been dealt, as his value will become nil if he regresses back to his 2015 numbers. Next season, Fulmer would take Gonzalez's place and it might be possible to convert Jones to a closer.

 

On the other hand, I'm OK with holding onto Frazier and Melky for now because our other options at those positions are not so great (Davidson, Tilson, Engel, etc.).

 

Well we also aren't, nor are we going to, win with the the team as currently constructed so what's the end game? You'd rather stick with what you know, even if it isn't good enough, than try something new and hope for the best? Of course no one knows if prospects are going to work out or not, but what we DO know is that the White Sox as a whole don't have enough talent. The nearly decade straight of losing should be evidence enough of this. But hey, let's just keep the same guys and make another run at it...surely we are only 1 or 2 pieces away

 

 

I mean that's kind of a loaded response. We aren't losing BECAUSE of Sale or Quintana. We'd just lose a lot more without them. We're losing despite SAle and Q and a bunch of other really, really coveted core players.

 

It's the rest of the organization that is hot garbage and why we lose.

 

It's that our team is full of players who strikeout too much, pop out too much, can't move runners over when necessary, etc.

 

You can turn your head to a few of these guys, but when 6-7 of your guys in the lineup are consistently unreliable with RISP you are going to lose.

The Sox have gotten better at scouting young talent, their problem is scouting at the ML level

When you go to the link click on top twenty by team and take a look…………..explains why we are mediocre!

 

 

Just did that.

WOOF!

 

I'm sorry this team cant draft or develop talent. I don't think we can evaluate talent in trades for only prospects either then IMO.

The Sox have gotten better at scouting young talent, their problem is scouting at the ML level

 

Yeah, Paddy and Hostetler's developments will take time.

 

It's the MLB stuff that's floundering.

The Sox have gotten better at scouting young talent, their problem is scouting at the ML level

Based on what evidence?

I agree, on what evidence? This whole thread is about how prospects are fools gold. Are nothing until they are something. As far as I can tell, until the people they draft turn into something... and not just the top round guys-- through and through, then I'll believe.

When you go to the link click on top twenty by team and take a look…………..explains why we are mediocre!

Oh man that list is hard to look at.

Based on what evidence?

 

 

Best I can tell, the new scouting director blows smoke up a few strategic behinds and now they are considered much better.

I know everybody is probably stuck over in Trade Winds but thought I'd bring this up here. I, as much as anybody kind of want to see a trade for a sake of a trade. Not that it makes sense. I am just so frustrated as a fan. My levels have reached heights they've never been before. For the first time since 2004 I am no longer watching games daily. I mean, through it all, I've watched 120-130 games a year. Basically if it could be worked into my schedule I'd watch. I've bought season tix (partial) almost every year.. but now? Done. I've started watching Astros and Cubs baseball, or just any random game of solid teams because I enjoy watching fun, fundamental baseball. Robin, the FO, the players all have not done this.

 

Now besides my rambling anger I just brought up the 2012 prospect list.

Now, it has always been my belief that if you trade a Sale or Q you'll never win the trade. It's just not possible. And I think this list confirms it...

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2012/

 

Who cares what their rankings are? Dylan Bundy? psh. he's a nobody. Not even a top 10 prospect is a guarantee. So to me, how am I going to trust our FO and scouts to correctly identify the good ones in a trade? Our whole existence is being bad at identifying and developing talent.

 

Just saying maybe keeping Sale and Q isn't the worst. Mediocrity or not.

 

On that list you have six guys that have had significant injuries in Profar, Bundy, Walker, Wheeler, Hultzen and Skaggs.

Then you have:

 

Wil Myers - all star caliber player

Trevor Bauer - Head case with talent, ML rotation piece

Gerrit Cole - Cy Young candidate

Nick Castellanos - Hitting .291/.332/.508 with 18 HRs this season.

 

Of the guys that are healthy, I am not sure why you wouldn't want one of them along with 4-5 more prospects for one pitcher.

Yes, there are always going to be discrepancies between the way that teams actually value talent and the way that media outlets rank it.

 

The 2011 list was:

1 Mike Trout

2 Bryce Harper

3 Matt Moore - traded for MLB 3B and prospects today

4 Julio Teheran

5 Shelby Miller

6 Jesus Montero

7 Jacob Turner

8 Martin Perez

9 Jameson Taillon

10 Manny Machado

 

Thats a really good list of players. Turner and Montero busted, the rest are at least quality ML pieces. Would have loved for the Sox to be to acquire a player like Heyward or the package the Dbacks gave up for Miller too.

Best I can tell, the new scouting director blows smoke up a few strategic behinds and now they are considered much better.

 

I am not really sure there is much to the "new scouting director". It seems like the White Sox just inflated everyones title and they are all still doing the same thing they were 5 years ago.

 

The farm is pretty much junk at this point with poor scouting, poor international signings, and a lack of ability to identify valuable players in trades.

 

 

 

My first post aside ... not trading Robertson and a few of the smaller pieces is asinine though.

Waiting until you have the best informed, well made decision on Sale and Quintana (since they are not FA for a while) makes sense.

Not trading some of the other pieces? Dumb.

Robertson may not be at peak value right now, but I believe he'll net more this year than he will next year ...

 

Robertson's contract may have worked against the Sox

Robertson's contract may have worked against the Sox

 

Possibly. JR typically doesn't like to eat parts of contracts as part of a trade, so that may have handcuffed Hahn somewhat.

 

Didn't seem to have any effect on Miller, whom, while better, netted two top 50 prospects.