The Sox woes this year are not entirely Robin's fault. They have had their fair share of injuries. However, as I have said, more than a few on the team seem to not play with 100% effort. And let us not forget the lack of fundamentals from bad base running to throwing to the wrong base. I have also seen players jogging to 1st base on routine grounders. Sure, this is the big league and will be normally out, but hustle puts pressure on the other team to make the play. All it takes is hustle to try and beat the throw. If the player is safe, that is a potential run. If a player does not hustle, he shows he does not care. That to me is unacceptable at any level. This part is on Robin and management for not promoting effort is everything.

 

Bottom line, winning baseball starts with a winning attitude.

Injuries are a poor excuse. They've just under an average number of injuries, way more than last year, but they're no where near as banged up as teams like Texas and Los Angeles have been. They seem like they're unusually banged up because for the last couple years they've been unbelievably healthy and so a return to "below average" number of injuries from "record low" seems like a major jump. If at the start of the year you picked 7 or 8 guys that this team couldn't afford to have go on the DL (Abreu, Eaton, Sale, Frazier, Quintana, Robertson, Lawrie, Cabrera, Rodon, Jones) none of them have had DL stints.

Robin is in his final month and a half as a White Sox manager, but let's not make things up. This team gives full effort. They have come back from being down many times, including last night. And I don't know how anyone can say they are throwing to the wrong base this season. That's just untrue.

 

 

Oh Dickie,

I have seen a few times during the season where the outfielder was trying to get the out at home with no chance. Not even close. But in the meantime, the runner advances to 2nd. That's called throwing to the wrong base and not knowing the situation.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

Injuries are a poor excuse. They've just under an average number of injuries, way more than last year, but they're no where near as banged up as teams like Texas and Los Angeles have been. They seem like they're unusually banged up because for the last couple years they've been unbelievably healthy and so a return to "below average" number of injuries from "record low" seems like a major jump. If at the start of the year you picked 7 or 8 guys that this team couldn't afford to have go on the DL (Abreu, Eaton, Sale, Frazier, Quintana, Robertson, Lawrie, Cabrera, Rodon, Jones) none of them have had DL stints.

Rodon was on the DL. Lawrie is on the DL.

Edited August 18, 20169 yr by Dick Allen

Oh Dickie,

I have seen a few times during the season where the outfielder was trying to get the out at home with no chance. Not even close. But in the meantime, the runner advances to 2nd. That's called throwing to the wrong base and not knowing the situation.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

If it happened, it isn't a chronic problem that happened any more often than it does with any other team. When Austin Jackson was out there, the Sox OF defense was really good. I would imagine the White Sox are pretty highly ranked in OF assists this season. They haven't won enough games, but it isn't because of throwing to the wrong base or lack of effort .

If it happened, it isn't a chronic problem that happened any more often than it does with any other team. When Austin Jackson was out there, the Sox OF defense was really good. I would imagine the White Sox are pretty highly ranked in OF assists this season. They haven't won enough games, but it isn't because of throwing to the wrong base or lack of effort .

 

Is jogging to 1st base ok with you then?

If it happened, it isn't a chronic problem that happened any more often than it does with any other team. When Austin Jackson was out there, the Sox OF defense was really good. I would imagine the White Sox are pretty highly ranked in OF assists this season. They haven't won enough games, but it isn't because of throwing to the wrong base or lack of effort .

Beside, I am not concerned about other teams.

Is jogging to 1st base ok with you then?

No its not. But most run hard to first. Not like it used to be with the team when not many people complained. Back in the mid 00s, I read an article quoting a scout how they couldn't get White Sox players times to 1B because no one busted it down the line. For the most part they do now, but again, you see that all around baseball. If you are hanging that on a manager, you are going to have a hard time finding a guy to manage your team.

Beside, I am not concerned about other teams.

But you are blaming it on the manager, so there currently are 30 managers you would have a problem with.

I think Ventura is improving as a manager, and his strategic mistakes are declining (that nutty bunt of the 2nd batter of the game with Shields on the mound notwithstanding). Yea people can yak about the pen and Albers, but is there a point in wearing out Nate Jones?

His teams the last 3 seasons haven't really tanked and and have played to their talent level.

 

I don't think he'll be back and might be used as a convenient excuse for the mistakes of the front office. Steverson, too, who I think has done some decent work with some of the young players of limited ability.

Edited August 18, 20169 yr by GreenSox

But you are blaming it on the manager, so there currently are 30 managers you would have a problem with.

 

 

If you look at successful teams, they hunger to win. Part of that comes from the manager who states early on with players they better play the game the right way. They are not my teams so if that is the way they want to play, that's their problem. As i have said in previous posts, I coach a certain age group and have a very successful record. Part of that is I tell the players what I expect from them and if they don't they don't play. It's really that simple.

What I have a problem with is paying my hard earned money to see players who don't hustle and/or play the game correctly and then complain about not winning. I don't want to pay to see grown men who play a kid's game get paid a lot of money and then not play hard. I, am by no means, condemning the whole team but come on, now, it would be nice to see Ventura and management have a pulse and the stones to send a message.

 

I can watch the same crappy baseball on tv for free with beers costing a lot less but if you are ok with it, go right ahead.

 

It appears you and I will not agree on certain things. I respect your opinion.l

 

 

No its not. But most run hard to first. Not like it used to be with the team when not many people complained. Back in the mid 00s, I read an article quoting a scout how they couldn't get White Sox players times to 1B because no one busted it down the line. For the most part they do now, but again, you see that all around baseball. If you are hanging that on a manager, you are going to have a hard time finding a guy to manage your team.

 

Dye, Thome, AJ, Konerko, Everett, Lee, Thomas, Crede.....all virtual speed demons.

 

They often hit the ball over the fence, so no need to run, actually.

If you look at successful teams, they hunger to win. Part of that comes from the manager who states early on with players they better play the game the right way. They are not my teams so if that is the way they want to play, that's their problem. As i have said in previous posts, I coach a certain age group and have a very successful record. Part of that is I tell the players what I expect from them and if they don't they don't play. It's really that simple.

What I have a problem with is paying my hard earned money to see players who don't hustle and/or play the game correctly and then complain about not winning. I don't want to pay to see grown men who play a kid's game get paid a lot of money and then not play hard. I, am by no means, condemning the whole team but come on, now, it would be nice to see Ventura and management have a pulse and the stones to send a message.

 

I can watch the same crappy baseball on tv for free with beers costing a lot less but if you are ok with it, go right ahead.

 

It appears you and I will not agree on certain things. I respect your opinion.l

 

These guys aren't 12 year old kids. Do you really think a manager has that much influence over the way a guy whose been playing baseball for a minimum of 15 up to 30+ years? Come on. The difference between the best managers in the game and the worst is maybe a few wins a year. And besides, how the hell do you know what goes on in the locker room? For all you know Ventura could be preaching the kinds of things you're saying day in and day out. Are you honestly advocating benching a guy like Adam Eaton because he doesn't run out one ground ball?

These guys aren't 12 year old kids. Do you really think a manager has that much influence over the way a guy whose been playing baseball for a minimum of 15 up to 30+ years? Come on. The difference between the best managers in the game and the worst is maybe a few wins a year. And besides, how the hell do you know what goes on in the locker room? For all you know Ventura could be preaching the kinds of things you're saying day in and day out. Are you honestly advocating benching a guy like Adam Eaton because he doesn't run out one ground ball?

Eaton was actually told to take it easy going to first base on some routine plays as he tends to injure himself.

That's great advice from a future Hall of Famer...

 

Twenty years from now, and certainly no later than twenty-five, he will invariably, no, inevitably, join the ranks of Leyland, LaRussa, Cox and Torre.

These guys aren't 12 year old kids. Do you really think a manager has that much influence over the way a guy whose been playing baseball for a minimum of 15 up to 30+ years? Come on. The difference between the best managers in the game and the worst is maybe a few wins a year. And besides, how the hell do you know what goes on in the locker room? For all you know Ventura could be preaching the kinds of things you're saying day in and day out. Are you honestly advocating benching a guy like Adam Eaton because he doesn't run out one ground ball?

 

So Hahn and KW will/should fall on their own swords to preserve Ventura's managerial position?

 

Great. At least it would be a direction of some sort.

So Hahn and KW will/should fall on their own swords to preserve Ventura's managerial position?

 

Great. At least it would be a direction of some sort.

What would the White Sox record be with the "proper" manager? There may be no need for a rebuild.

What would the White Sox record be with the "proper" manager? There may be no need for a rebuild.

 

Hard to say. Since we're flailing away under .500 yet again, with a future HoF...we need to poach Mike Scioscia away from the Angels or extend Ventura's contract another 2-3 years.

 

After all, he's the one who mentored Maddon and is dearly in need of a change of scenery...and the White Sox are dearly in need of a real general, not one who fills out a Myers Briggs survey and impresses KW.

 

 

Really, it makes perfect financial sense. That, some duct tape and baling wire buys the Sox another offseason before the fans completely turn on the organization. Instead of the next Bonifacio or Duke, it's much easier to sell the stabilizing influence of Scioscia. Plus those two managers in the same town!

Edited August 18, 20169 yr by caulfield12

What would the White Sox record be with the "proper" manager? There may be no need for a rebuild.

 

The roster coming out of spring training was geared for the WS to compete for the division. The pieces were in place but a few tweaks may have been needed. Was that Ventura's fault? No. That's on management for not getting better pieces. My point is the right manager can bring out the best in some (not all) players. Ventura seemed to learn along the way but needs to show some sort of pulse. Could he become a better manager? Absolutely, but hopefully his tenure with the Sox will come to a close shortly.

 

 

Hard to say. Since we're flailing away under .500 yet again, with a future HoF...we need to poach Mike Scioscia away from the Angels or extend Ventura's contract another 2-3 years.

 

After all, he's the one who mentored Maddon and is dearly in need of a change of scenery...and the White Sox are dearly in need of a real general, not one who fills out a Myers Briggs survey and impresses KW.

 

 

Really, it makes perfect financial sense. That, some duct tape and baling wire buys the Sox another offseason before the fans completely turn on the organization. Instead of the next Bonifacio or Duke, it's much easier to sell the stabilizing influence of Scioscia. Plus those two managers in the same town!

 

I like the idea of Scioscia. You have my vote.

Hard to say. Since we're flailing away under .500 yet again, with a future HoF...we need to poach Mike Scioscia away from the Angels or extend Ventura's contract another 2-3 years.

 

After all, he's the one who mentored Maddon and is dearly in need of a change of scenery...and the White Sox are dearly in need of a real general, not one who fills out a Myers Briggs survey and impresses KW.

 

 

Really, it makes perfect financial sense. That, some duct tape and baling wire buys the Sox another offseason before the fans completely turn on the organization. Instead of the next Bonifacio or Duke, it's much easier to sell the stabilizing influence of Scioscia. Plus those two managers in the same town!

 

Moreno just pulled the ultimate loyalty move and fired the GM because his manager didn't like him. Why in the world would Scioscia want to leave that?

Moreno just pulled the ultimate loyalty move and fired the GM because his manager didn't like him. Why in the world would Scioscia want to leave that?

I don't think Mike is going to have the choice. I think his time has come in Anaheim and he's due for a fresh start. He's going to get a lot of dough though and most likely I presume would take a season off. I think a change in scenery would do him very good and I'd love it if the Sox were to get him, but I don't see it happening.

I don't think Mike is going to have the choice. I think his time has come in Anaheim and he's due for a fresh start. He's going to get a lot of dough though and most likely I presume would take a season off. I think a change in scenery would do him very good and I'd love it if the Sox were to get him, but I don't see it happening.

 

Granted I don't get to see him much, but the impression I have of him as a manager is Ozzie Guillen-esque. Bunting, base stealing ,and loud.

I don't think Mike is going to have the choice. I think his time has come in Anaheim and he's due for a fresh start. He's going to get a lot of dough though and most likely I presume would take a season off. I think a change in scenery would do him very good and I'd love it if the Sox were to get him, but I don't see it happening.

It's hard for managers to win with crappy players. They spent a lot of bad money. I think the Pujols contract looks worse at the end than ARod's.

Edited August 18, 20169 yr by Dick Allen

Granted I don't get to see him much, but the impression I have of him as a manager is Ozzie Guillen-esque. Bunting, base stealing ,and loud.

He doesn't seem loud to me, but he is definitely old school and not too into advanced stats.

Granted I don't get to see him much, but the impression I have of him as a manager is Ozzie Guillen-esque. Bunting, base stealing ,and loud.

He likes to bunt, he likes to run (where it makes sense) and he's a little more old school in that regard, but he also had Madden as a bench coach for years and while he isn't pro-advanced stats, he'll leverage them to some extent, etc (although obviously there was a beef when their GM intervened in the process and started sharing data directly with Pujols and others vs. it coming from the managers). He values defense, but also likes playing a lot of guys (so similar to Ozzie in that way where you get some of those "sunday" lineups).

 

The loud part I don't see at all though. He has total command of the clubhouse and is nothing like Ozzie in that regard. I'd compare him a lot to Ned Yost or Showalter, who I think all fall in that old school manager camp.