Bump because at least he doesn't say dumb shit like Joe Maddon did last night regarding the Astros

It's odd that a smart baseball man like Ricky doesn't seem to feel it when a pitcher is losing it or a hitter needs to sit for a few days.  Most of us can see those things and start buzzing on this forum before the roof caves in.  None of us have Ricky's 40 years in the game and yet virtually all of us are mystified by some of his decision making.  Ricky very obviously is not dumb and yet continues to out think him self.  He doesn't even need to come up with anything clever.  He has bench coaches and a pitching coach to suggest the smart thing to do.  I do think he manages the clubhouse side of things very well...the game side not so much.

Perhaps last night's decision to leave Lopez in the game was a "teaching moment". Renteria stated that they wanted to see if he could find a way to get out of the jam. He said that Lopez can usually "muster a little more". Especially with McCann catching him, I think that they were trying to give Reynaldo an opportunity to work out of trouble. It's part of the development of a young pitcher. The only question I have is how that could be even plausible, when his command was so bad. He just couldn't locate his pitches.

Nevertheless, it is a year, in which developing the young players should take precedence over winning. Lopez has a lot of talent and could be a key piece in the starting rotation. We have to trust Cooper, Hassler and Renteria to oversee that development. I wouldn't be presumptuous enough to think that I could do it better. It's frustrating to us, as fans, because we want to win, but the coaching staff's priority may be different. If development is a higher priority than winning the game, then the decision to leave him in doesn't look quite so foolish.

7 hours ago, Lillian said:

Perhaps last night's decision to leave Lopez in the game was a "teaching moment". Renteria stated that they wanted to see if he could find a way to get out of the jam. He said that Lopez can usually "muster a little more". Especially with McCann catching him, I think that they were trying to give Reynaldo an opportunity to work out of trouble. It's part of the development of a young pitcher. The only question I have is how that could be even plausible, when his command was so bad. He just couldn't locate his pitches.

Nevertheless, it is a year, in which developing the young players should take precedence over winning. Lopez has a lot of talent and could be a key piece in the starting rotation. We have to trust Cooper, Hassler and Renteria to oversee that development. I wouldn't be presumptuous enough to think that I could do it better. It's frustrating to us, as fans, because we want to win, but the coaching staff's priority may be different. If development is a higher priority than winning the game, then the decision to leave him in doesn't look quite so foolish.

That's all well and good, but you can still have someone ready in the pen during a teaching moment. 

41 minutes ago, gusguyman said:

That's all well and good, but you can still have someone ready in the pen during a teaching moment. 

Yes, you're right about that. Especially since it was getting late in the game, and he had thrown close to the normal limit of pitches. Good point.

He sucks so much. 

If you literally question if your manager is bad after almost every game, your manager is bad.

When Ricky was fired from the Cubs a lot of discussion was had about the right guy to get you from point A to point B.  Maybe we're at that point.

Ricky has not been defending his guys against the Cubs tonight. He puts an injured Yoan in last night. Leury keeps playing hobbled. Very questionable decisions. 

On 6/7/2019 at 5:38 AM, poppysox said:

When Ricky was fired from the Cubs a lot of discussion was had about the right guy to get you from point A to point B.  Maybe we're at that point.

Nah. Just cause we've had some nice wins this year doesn't mean we have a good team. I think most all of us on here would need to make 3-4 acquisitions to get this team to play .580 or .600 ball. Right now we are a .480 to a .425 type team, not a .500 team.

57 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Ricky has not been defending his guys against the Cubs tonight. He puts an injured Yoan in last night. Leury keeps playing hobbled. Very questionable decisions. 

The way they played tonight Ricky shouldn't be defending them in my opinion.

On 5/30/2019 at 7:10 AM, poppysox said:

It's odd that a smart baseball man like Ricky doesn't seem to feel it when a pitcher is losing it or a hitter needs to sit for a few days.  Most of us can see those things and start buzzing on this forum before the roof caves in.  None of us have Ricky's 40 years in the game and yet virtually all of us are mystified by some of his decision making.  Ricky very obviously is not dumb and yet continues to out think him self.  He doesn't even need to come up with anything clever.  He has bench coaches and a pitching coach to suggest the smart thing to do.  I do think he manages the clubhouse side of things very well...the game side not so much.

Bingo! I totally agree with you. 

The one thing I didn't understand was when he double switched the other night with Moncada. Why have Moncada bat if he couldn't swing the bat?

4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The one thing I didn't understand was when he double switched the other night with Moncada. Why have Moncada bat if he couldn't swing the bat?

It’s futile to question stupidity.

And yes, Renteria should be fired and replaced with a competent manager.  However, his eventual replacement will likely be Omar Vizquel, whether that’s a good thing or not.

Edited June 20, 20196 yr by Moan4Yoan

Sticking to managers I've been alive to see.

Hmm, given enough time every manager stinks it up for a stretch and looks good for a stretch. For example Ozzie's final couple months may have been the worst stretch of "managing" I've seen by someone in a Sox uniform. He also had a great stretch in '05. 

I always think of Tony as the best. But that is partly because I was too young to really understand what Tanner was doing. 

7 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Sticking to managers I've been alive to see.

Hmm, given enough time every manager stinks it up for a stretch and looks good for a stretch. For example Ozzie's final couple months may have been the worst stretch of "managing" I've seen by someone in a Sox uniform. He also had a great stretch in '05. 

I always think of Tony as the best. But that is partly because I was too young to really understand what Tanner was doing. 

Chuck Tanner has the managerial record for consecutive last place finishes. 

 

Obviously, the better the roster, the better the manager. Bad players make smart moves not work. Good players make bad decisions work out. Good players win, bad players don't.

58 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

It’s futile to question stupidity.

And yes, Renteria should be fired and replaced with a competent manager.  However, his eventual replacement will likely be Omar Vizquel, whether that’s a good thing or not.

I don't know anything about Omar making out a lineup card or his communication skills.  I do know he knows how to play baseball.

In terms of Sox managers in the JR era, I would probably rank him 4th behind LaRussa, Torborg and Guillen.  Maybe behind Manuel.  That's not to say he's good, but as long as he lays off the bunting, I've seen worse.

And in terms of current White Sox staff, I see Cooper, Hahn, Haber and perhaps Hostetler (TBD) as bigger anchors.  And KW if he's still intimately involved.

Edited June 20, 20196 yr by GreenSox

10 hours ago, ron883 said:

Ricky has not been defending his guys against the Cubs tonight. He puts an injured Yoan in last night. Leury keeps playing hobbled. Very questionable decisions. 

No reason to be mad about Yoan.  He had a couple of hits the next night.

Maybe the question should have been " Worst manager in your lifetime as a Sox fan" or "Worst manager of the last 5 Sox managers".  Obviously, there are no living fans who can truly answer the original question since the team goes back to 1901 (I think).

20 minutes ago, bubba phillips said:

Maybe the question should have been " Worst manager in your lifetime as a Sox fan" or "Worst manager of the last 5 Sox managers".  Obviously, there are no living fans who can truly answer the original question since the team goes back to 1901 (I think).

If you have to put a bunch of qualifiers on it, why ask the question?

"Is Ricky the worst of the last 5 managers except Ventura?"

I mean, who cares?

Edited June 20, 20196 yr by Eloy Jiménez

2 hours ago, bubba phillips said:

Maybe the question should have been " Worst manager in your lifetime as a Sox fan" or "Worst manager of the last 5 Sox managers".  Obviously, there are no living fans who can truly answer the original question since the team goes back to 1901 (I think).

If you are old enough to remember Bevington...you know the answer to this question.

6 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Chuck Tanner has the managerial record for consecutive last place finishes. 

 

Obviously, the better the roster, the better the manager. Bad players make smart moves not work. Good players make bad decisions work out. Good players win, bad players don't.

He does? Connie Mack's Philadelphia A's came in last place 1915-21 and 1940-43. When did Chuck Tanner top that?

 

 https://www.baseball-reference.com/managers/mackco01.shtml

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/managers/tannech01.shtml

Chuck Tanner was an excellent manager.  He knew just when to tell Dick Allen to hit the snot out of the baseball.

4 hours ago, Eloy Jiménez said:

If you have to put a bunch of qualifiers on it, why ask the question?

"Is Ricky the worst of the last 5 managers except Ventura?"

I mean, who cares?

Qualifiers matter when you’re asking this particular question for which the subject matter spans more than a century long.