6 minutes ago, ptatc said:

He's a good hitter not great.  He's awful on defense. He's would obviously be an offensive upgrade but not great other than a couple of months with the Cubs. If he reverts to AL version it's good but not worth sacrificing the pursuit of a greater need in pitching.

I didn't say great. I didn't say he's a future hall of famer. But he did have the 10th most doubles of all time last year. There's something there. That would have a serious impact on our lineup. The guy has improved quite a bit over the last few years.

Now as for his time with the Cubs. I don't go by that. I rarely watch Cub games.  But I have watched him lash Sox pitching the last many years.

Cubs fans tell me his defense is nowhere near as bad as advertised. That's all I have to go on. Supposedly his defense has improved tremendously. And that would make sense, given that he has only played RF two seasons.

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

You can start working on your front office defense now. "Keuchel is fine and we weren't going to be competitive in 2020 so there's no reason to spend more than that, we'll be able to spend big next offseason" probably works. 

You’re assuming they can actually close the deal with Boras in the face of loads of competition...

Edited December 12, 20196 yr by caulfield12

6 minutes ago, ptatc said:

They still have the greater need in pitching so that's where the resources should go. It would be great to get the impact pitcher but need at least a good one, the Castellanos version of a pitcher.

But they passed on the impact pitching...what am I missing here?

1 minute ago, TaylorStSox said:

I would have also assumed that everyone accepted that the window got pushed back a year when Kopech, Dunning, Lambert, Hansen and Burdi all suffered serious injuries. 

But Hahn even discussed adding two starting starting pitchers which refutes this notion.  And I don’t think the Sox are waiting on or depending on guys like Lambert, Hansen, or Burdi for anything.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

But Hahn even discussed adding two starting starting pitchers which refutes this notion.  And I don’t think the Sox are waiting on or depending on guys like Lambert, Hansen, or Burdi for anything.

 

 

They did offer the most money to Wheeler and none of the other realistic FA's have signed yet. They were never getting Strasburg or Cole and both of us know this. I can't even imagine how much they'd have had to offer each one to have a realistic shot. It sure as hell would have been a lot more than what the Nats and Yankees offered. 

Edited December 12, 20196 yr by TaylorStSox

9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

You can start working on your front office defense now. "Keuchel is fine and we weren't going to be competitive in 2020 so there's no reason to spend more than that, we'll be able to spend big next offseason" probably works. 

That would not be a defebse6if the FO for me. I said at the beginning of FA that keuchal was my preference for the team.

Newsflash: The Chicago White Sox have been around for 119 years. They have never, and will never, be a marquee franchise. You might want to reconsider your expectations. 

10 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

There are the Big 3 (Bum/Ryu/Keuchel) and Porcello and that’s pretty much it.  Everything else is dumpster diving/hoping for rebounds.

 

Agreed for FA. There may be trades that we dont know about. If its anyone other than those, I will be disappointed. 

2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

That would not be a defebse6if the FO for me. I said at the beginning of FA that keuchal was my preference for the team.

Do you agree that they still need to acquire a second starter, outside of Keuchel, this offseason?

10 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

I would have also assumed that everyone accepted that the window got pushed back a year when Kopech, Dunning, Lambert, Hansen and Burdi all suffered serious injuries. 

Yeah, that year of being pushed back was 2019. In year 4 of rebuilds, teams like the Cubs and Astros have won the wild card - we were supposed to be able to beat that pace, because of all the extra talent we acquired. If we're punting on 2020, then we're now behind schedule.

Do we have a plan for what happens if a handful more things go wrong in 2020? Because making no impact moves, kicking the can down the road, and then not having everything go perfectly - starts setting up for a permanent rebuilding.

3 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Newsflash: The Chicago White Sox have been around for 119 years. They have never, and will never, be a marquee franchise. You might want to reconsider your expectations. 

I don’t think any team needs to be a marquee franchise to add a Keuchel and a secondary lesser starting pitcher.  These guys aren’t top free agents.

11 minutes ago, Sarava said:

But they passed on the impact pitching...what am I missing here?

This is why I said that dont need the impact pitcher just a good one, the Castellanos version of a pitcher, if you read my post. I know I'm in the minority here but I would not give any pitcher not from my  organization more than a 5 year deal. They rarely work out well. I've been consistent about this. If there are from my organization I know the medical issues and can determine if they warrant that contract.

14 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

There are the Big 3 (Bum/Ryu/Keuchel) and Porcello and that’s pretty much it.  Everything else is dumpster diving/hoping for rebounds.

 

 

A different take on pitching as it relates to Porcello and other fly-ball pitchers.  He is only 31 but had a bad 2019. 

 

This offseason is weird in terms of trying to project performance because we are missing an extremely basic piece of information about the coming season: What’s the baseball going to be like. It’s a stain on the league that this is even a question — do whatever you want with the ball, but be open about it — but this is where we are. Last year, as we know, MLB had bouncy balls that resulted in absurd offensive numbers around the league. Pitchers like Porcello, who were prone to home runs as it was, seemed to suffer the most. Everyone gave up more homers, but for pitchers like Porcello they jumped from an acceptable rate to a nearly untenable one that resulted in too many short outings. If the 2019 baseball is back for the 2020 season, Porcello is a lot less valuable than he would be if they went back to a more stable ball. That this is even part of the equation makes things much more complicated, and thus is in and of itself an argument against Porcello.

 

https://www.overthemonster.com/2019/12/9/21002518/boston-red-sox-offseason-rumors-rick-porcello-free-agent

3 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

I don’t think any team needs to be a marquee franchise to add a Keuchel and a secondary lesser starting pitcher.  These guys aren’t top free agents.

Have any of them signed yet? 

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Yeah, that year of being pushed back was 2019. In year 4 of rebuilds, teams like the Cubs and Astros have won the wild card - we were supposed to be able to beat that pace, because of all the extra talent we acquired. If we're punting on 2020, then we're now behind schedule.

Do we have a plan for what happens if a handful more things go wrong in 2020? Because making no impact moves, kicking the can down the road, and then not having everything go perfectly - starts setting up for a permanent rebuilding.

Are you trying to tell me all rebuilds aren't linear? So we're not the Astros? Awww, I'm so sad. 

3 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Do you agree that they still need to acquire a second starter, outside of Keuchel, this offseason?

Not sure. It would depend on the quality. If they sign keuchal, let's say, the rotation is Giolito, cease, kopech keuchal and Lopez.  I'd be fine with Lopez as a 5th starter. If the second acquisition was substantially better I would he good with it but I dont know if its "needed" That's a really good rotation once they all get up and going. If Cease doesnt improve they may need one for the following year. They'll have Dunning waiting in the minors if he is throwing well.

Just now, TaylorStSox said:

Have any of them signed yet? 

No, but I wasn’t sure what type of players you were referring to as being unattainable if your team isn’t a marquee franchise.

Do you think Keuchel and a lesser SP options are realistic for the Sox to acquire this offseason?

1 minute ago, ptatc said:

Not sure. It would depend on the quality. If they sign keuchal, let's say, the rotation is Giolito, cease, kopech keuchal and Lopez.  I'd be fine with Lopez as a 5th starter. If the second acquisition was substantially better I would he good with it but I dont know if its "needed" That's a really good rotation once they all get up and going. If Cease doesnt improve they may need one for the following year. They'll have Dunning waiting in the minors if he is throwing well.

 But that won’t be the rotation to start the season with Kopech’s rehab.

I even forgot about Rodon. So the 2 guys we expected to be our number 1 and 2 starting pitchers both went down with TJS and you guys didn't expect the window to get pushed back? 

2 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

No, but I wasn’t sure what type of players you were referring to as being unattainable if your team isn’t a marquee franchise.

Do you think Keuchel and a lesser SP options are realistic for the Sox to acquire this offseason?

I think they're realistic. I don't think they're particularly good investments though. 

1 minute ago, Moan4Yoan said:

 But that won’t be the rotation to start the season with Kopech’s rehab.

I think it will be to start the season, kopech should be ready to go. I dont think it will be at the end of the season, although the could just to shortened starts. But that's when the bring in Rodon to finish the season because he will want to build his value for when he becomes a free agent.

1 minute ago, TaylorStSox said:

I even forgot about Rodon. So the 2 guys we expected to be our number 1 and 2 starting pitchers both went down with TJS and you guys didn't expect the window to get pushed back? 

But Hahn was the one saying he wanted to acquire two starters this offseason, so that would indicate that he doesn’t want to push the window back another year due to injuries to our existing starting pitchers.

25 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

But Hahn even discussed adding two starting starting pitchers which refutes this notion.  And I don’t think the Sox are waiting on or depending on guys like Lambert, Hansen, or Burdi for anything.

 

 

They cant count on Burdi but i think he will surprise people. Returning from MPFL reconstruction takes time as its robs you of all leg strength. He should be better this year.

Edited December 12, 20196 yr by ptatc

2 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I think it will be to start the season, kopech should be ready to go. I dont think it will be at the end of the season, although the could just to shortened starts. But that's when the bring in Rodon to finish the season because he will want to build his value for when he becomes a free agent.

That could make sense.  And I believe Rodon is under Sox control for 2021 as well so he has a bit more time to build his value prior to free agency.

1 minute ago, Moan4Yoan said:

But Hahn was the one saying he wanted to acquire two starters this offseason, so that would indicate that he doesn’t want to push the window back another year due to injuries to our existing starting pitchers.

You're listening to GM speak? Haha. I'm sure he'd love to sign every free agent. Unfortunately, he has to live in reality.