Amaya. He gone. UPDATE: He back.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Huh?  Getz cut the guy to sign two mediocre veteran fourth outfielders for a combined $4 million in what will be another losing season, even though the team would have had plenty of at bats to give to DeLoach.

It sure appears that even Getz whom acquired DeLoach doesn’t think he was worth a roster spot while making the minimum.

It’s funny that you get mildly excited that the Sox manage to retain these guys.  It literally means that no other team wants them even though they are basically free other than taking up a 40-man roster spot.

Just like if Steven Wilson clears waivers, this means that no other team wants these sorry ass bums even though they make under a million.  It really doesn’t matter what you think.  These are called bad acquisitions by a bad GM whom whiffed once again on part of his trade returns.  It’s as simple as that.

And Berror has fallen to the 30-40 prospect range...

[Y2Jimmy0]

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

And Berror has fallen to the 30-40 prospect range...

I think there's a decent chance that Berroa is better than Santos this year 

[WhiteSox2023]

5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

And Berror has fallen to the 30-40 prospect range...

I said last week that the Santos trade looks pretty bad now.  Watching Berroa walk the world will not be fun.

[WestEddy]

14 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

We don't need to waste MLB bats on guys like Fletcher Julks and DeLoach that are fourth outfielders at best.

Hahn got pretty much zero depth/bench players out of 2017-2019 playing time opportunities...and that lack of depth killed them.

But at least we had starters with 3-5 fWAR potential across the board at that time.

Right now, other than catcher...and Braden Montgomery, feels like we only have 2-3 starting positions with 75% confidence filled for 2027.

Oh, so they should just not put players out there until Braden Montgomery is ready? LOL. Okay. I'm not even sure what you're arguing. 

[WestEddy]

4 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Huh?  Getz cut the guy to sign two mediocre veteran fourth outfielders for a combined $4 million in what will be another losing season, even though the team would have had plenty of at bats to give to DeLoach.

It sure appears that even Getz whom acquired DeLoach doesn’t think he was worth a roster spot while making the minimum.

It’s funny that you get mildly excited that the Sox manage to retain these guys.  It literally means that no other team wants them even though they are basically free other than taking up a 40-man roster spot.

Just like if Steven Wilson clears waivers, this means that no other team wants these sorry ass bums even though they make under a million.  It really doesn’t matter what you think.  These are called bad acquisitions by a bad GM whom whiffed once again on part of his trade returns.  It’s as simple as that.

I really don't know what you're taking a victory lap over. It's really weird as f*** that you get angry when the rest of the world doesn't nurse hate boners for the same baseball players you do. 

[caulfield12]

42 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Oh, so they should just not put players out there until Braden Montgomery is ready? LOL. Okay. I'm not even sure what you're arguing. 

That DeLoach Julks and Fletcher aren't even good enough to even approximate those "nine or ten good players rather than 1-2 stars" that the Bulls claim is their new operating model for sustainable success.

It's not hating on players to be realistic about their capabilities...right now, Braden,  Teel and maybe Colson Montgomery and Quero are the only position players who project at 2.5-3.0 fWAR or higher.

Without any stars like a Witt or Jose Ramirez, you're going to have to get above average production from every single position instead.

Edited February 8 by caulfield12

[WestEddy]

15 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

That DeLoach Julks and Fletcher aren't even good enough to even approximate those "nine or ten good players rather than 1-2 stars" that the Bulls claim is their new operating model for sustainable success.

It's not hating on players to be realistic about their capabilities...right now, Braden,  Teel and maybe Colson Montgomery and Quero are the only position players who project at 2.5-3.0 fWAR or higher.

Without any stars like a Witt or Jose Ramirez, you're going to have to get above average production from every single position instead.

What do the Bulls have to do with this? DeLoach, Julks or Fletcher won't be taking ABs away from anybody who deserves them in Chicago or Charlotte. 

Again, I really have no idea what you or WS23 are hyperventilating about. Are you actually saying that if DeLoach does put it all together, and actually earns a call-up from Charlotte, the White Sox should still release him because you and WS23 have declared him to be human garbage? That's some 4-dimensional s%*#-posting. LOL. 

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

What do the Bulls have to do with this? DeLoach, Julks or Fletcher won't be taking ABs away from anybody who deserves them in Chicago or Charlotte. 

Again, I really have no idea what you or WS23 are hyperventilating about. Are you actually saying that if DeLoach does put it all together, and actually earns a call-up from Charlotte, the White Sox should still release him because you and WS23 have declared him to be human garbage? That's some 4-dimensional s%*#-posting. LOL. 

We have Braden Montgomery and MAYBE Colson Montgomery that can be stars.

Real MLB stars tend to go for 5-10 fWAR seasons...

See Luis Robert 2023.

If you don't have any stars at all...you need to get pretty much 2+ fWAR production from every single spot in the lineup to make up for that.

We might have 4 or perhaps 5 players capable of that in the future.

MIGHT.

[WestEddy]

17 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

We have Braden Montgomery and MAYBE Colson Montgomery that can be stars.

Real MLB stars tend to go for 5-10 fWAR seasons...

See Luis Robert 2023.

If you don't have any stars at all...you need to get pretty much 2+ fWAR production from every single spot in the lineup to make up for that.

We might have 4 or perhaps 5 players capable of that in the future.

MIGHT.

I called DeLoach a 4th OF. Your pointless lecture seems to imply that I said I want a whole team of Zach DeLoaches. Nobody here said the White Sox should never pursue stars, anymore, now that DeLoach passed through waivers. 

[Dick Allen]

57 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

What do the Bulls have to do with this? DeLoach, Julks or Fletcher won't be taking ABs away from anybody who deserves them in Chicago or Charlotte. 

Again, I really have no idea what you or WS23 are hyperventilating about. Are you actually saying that if DeLoach does put it all together, and actually earns a call-up from Charlotte, the White Sox should still release him because you and WS23 have declared him to be human garbage? That's some 4-dimensional s%*#-posting. LOL. 

Your love for players nobody wants is pretty hysterical.

[WestEddy]

17 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Your love for players nobody wants is pretty hysterical.

Love? I think the funniest part is that you guys have to pretend people who don't agree with you are "in love" and "lick boots" when they won't join your misery coven. 

I'm a Sox fan. I would like to see a trade work out. I seem to remember you having a protracted man-crush on Pedro Grifol. Are you at the "eat a gallon of ice cream when another team hires him" phase, yet?

[WhiteSox2023]

47 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Your love for players nobody wants is pretty hysterical.

Exactly.  DeLoach was cut by Getz in under a year since he was acquired and just passed through waivers unclaimed and was outrighted to Charlotte.  But let’s all be excited that the Sox managed to retain such a talent.  🤣

DeLoach, Wilson…  just more Getz fails.

Edited February 8 by WhiteSox2023

[WestEddy]

13 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Exactly.  DeLoach was cut by Getz in under a year since he was acquired and just passed through waivers unclaimed and was outrighted to Charlotte.  But let’s all be excited that the Sox managed to retain such a talent.  🤣

DeLoach, Wilson…  just more Getz fails.

I really can't fathom the deep desperation for validation from strangers you guys live in your daily rants about how everybody else should think about their baseball team. I get lectured for thinking I'm smarter than everyone, but really, how smart does a person have to be to understand you guys are literally making things up to criticize me over? This is the quote you guys are pretending is somebody "in love", "excited", or projecting him as a star:

Quote

No harm, no foul. I still like DeLoach as a 4th OF, or something. 

 

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

Your love for players nobody wants is pretty hysterical.

And seriously, what, honest-to-God, has me rolling on the sidewalk, gasping for breath I'm laughing so hard, is that you probably spent around $44,000 over 22 years on something that makes you so miserable. Just on tickets, mind you. And then drop $20 a game on a beer and a hot dog, that's another $36,600.

Eighty Thousand dollars you crawled over and stuck between Jerry Reinsdorf's toes after you lovingly kissed each and every one of them, and you have the balls to pretend to be laughing at me for rooting for Zach DeLoach to pull it all together and one day be a 4th OF? 

Yes, everyone who criticizes me for thinking I'm smarter than everyone, I'm smarter than this guy. 

[Dick Allen]

47 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Love? I think the funniest part is that you guys have to pretend people who don't agree with you are "in love" and "lick boots" when they won't join your misery coven. 

I'm a Sox fan. I would like to see a trade work out. I seem to remember you having a protracted man-crush on Pedro Grifol. Are you at the "eat a gallon of ice cream when another team hires him" phase, yet?

I liked him a lot when hired,. He won his press conference.  but it wasn’t prolonged. I knew 20 games in, he was a bad hire.

[Dick Allen]

8 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

And seriously, what, honest-to-God, has me rolling on the sidewalk, gasping for breath I'm laughing so hard, is that you probably spent around $44,000 over 22 years on something that makes you so miserable. Just on tickets, mind you. And then drop $20 a game on a beer and a hot dog, that's another $36,600.

Eighty Thousand dollars you crawled over and stuck between Jerry Reinsdorf's toes after you lovingly kissed each and every one of them, and you have the balls to pretend to be laughing at me for rooting for Zach DeLoach to pull it all together and one day be a 4th OF? 

Yes, everyone who criticizes me for thinking I'm smarter than everyone, I'm smarter than this guy. 

I enjoyed going to games. When that stopped, I didn’t go anymore.You can’t think for yourself. You leave that up to Chris Getz.

Edited February 8 by Dick Allen

[WestEddy]

7 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I enjoyed going to games. When that stopped, I didn’t go anymore.You can’t think for yourself. You leave that up to Chris Getz.

I'm glad for you that you did, and sorry for you that the enjoyment went away. I'm good for up to 3 games a year, one with my friends, one with my nephews, and maybe another with the wife, if she's into it. 

I think for myself just fine. I did, just there, when I said I'm rooting for DeLoach to pull it together, and be a worthy sub. You saying you're pretending to be laughing at me really has no influence on how I feel about this team or its players. You and your little WS23 buddy desperately looking for approval by tagging onto every scolding session and pretending to be having uncontrollable fits of laughter seem to be not thinking for one's self. 

And for anyone who is going to pile on and accuse me of having a problem with how other people think, I don't and didn't. I said, "No harm, no foul. I still like DeLoach as a 4th OF, or something", and Caulfield lectured me on how I should only be wanting "stars" on this team, Dick Allen accused me of "love" that he finds "hysterical", and WS23 indicated he's laughing at me being "excited" that DeLoach passed through waivers. 

Also note how I didn't tell any of these three that they should be rooting for him, buying tickets, or otherwise being positive about this team. All I did was reiterate my original comment for those pretending I said something else. The end. 

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Exactly.  DeLoach was cut by Getz in under a year since he was acquired and just passed through waivers unclaimed and was outrighted to Charlotte.  But let’s all be excited that the Sox managed to retain such a talent.  🤣

DeLoach, Wilson…  just more Getz fails.

And Getz decided that Fajardo and Combs were reasonable prices for bullpen arms, but they suddenly became future hall-of-famers in your eyes as soon as they left the organization. We all know that if DeLoach was claimed by another team, or traded for a bullpen arm, you and Caulfield would be sitting shiva for him right now. 

You make zero sense when you fall over yourself to declare every move a failure. (Of course you had to admit the Crochet trade was a good deal, lest you look certifiably insane complaining about that one.)

[Dick Allen]

10 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

And Getz decided that Fajardo and Combs were reasonable prices for bullpen arms, but they suddenly became future hall-of-famers in your eyes as soon as they left the organization. We all know that if DeLoach was claimed by another team, or traded for a bullpen arm, you and Caulfield would be sitting shiva for him right now. 

You make zero sense when you fall over yourself to declare every move a failure. (Of course you had to admit the Crochet trade was a good deal, lest you look certifiably insane complaining about that one.)

Has Chris Getz made any mistakes ?

[WhiteSox2023]

19 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

And Getz decided that Fajardo and Combs were reasonable prices for bullpen arms, but they suddenly became future hall-of-famers in your eyes as soon as they left the organization. We all know that if DeLoach was claimed by another team, or traded for a bullpen arm, you and Caulfield would be sitting shiva for him right now. 

You make zero sense when you fall over yourself to declare every move a failure. (Of course you had to admit the Crochet trade was a good deal, lest you look certifiably insane complaining about that one.)

When did I ever say that about Fajardo and Combs?  I just argued that with where the Sox are currently at (i.e., terrible), trading any young prospects for old relievers is stupid.

And Getz has like three good trades — Crochet, DeJong, and Grossman.  Go figure, even Getz was able to get a good return for a cheap starter with control that magically turned into an ace!  Any GM could have done that.

The rest of his moves are mediocre to bad.  He ruined his Fedde acquisition by trading him for Vargas.

What is your list of all of Getz’s great trades?

Edited February 8 by WhiteSox2023

[WestEddy]

16 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Has Chris Getz made any mistakes ?

Sure. Maldonado was useless, but I understand why they brought him in. Clevenger was a disaster. Getz probably got overwhelmed with the Fedde trade and didn't hold out for the extra prospect. I'm not going to pretend that Cristian Mena or Matt Thompson were sure fire Cy Young candidates in order to criticize. I think he fell in love with the idea of signing rehabbing relievers last year, and wound up releasing all of them. 

Guys not working out isn't a "mistake". Last year's pitching plan didn't work out, but the more important job is modernizing the whole organization. 

 

[WhiteSox2023]

5 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Sure. Maldonado was useless, but I understand why they brought him in. Clevenger was a disaster. Getz probably got overwhelmed with the Fedde trade and didn't hold out for the extra prospect. I'm not going to pretend that Cristian Mena or Matt Thompson were sure fire Cy Young candidates in order to criticize. I think he fell in love with the idea of signing rehabbing relievers last year, and wound up releasing all of them. 

Guys not working out isn't a "mistake". Last year's pitching plan didn't work out, but the more important job is modernizing the whole organization. 

 

Guys not working out (especially position players) like Fletcher, Vargas, etc., means that the Sox still have no clue how to scout players.  It’s great that they can look at a top ten prospect list for the Red Sox and know who to ask for in return for Crochet but they need to be able to identify talent better than they do.

[WestEddy]

18 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

When did I ever say that about Fajardo and Combs?  I just argued that with where the Sox are currently at (i.e., terrible), trading any young prospects for old relievers is stupid.

And Getz has like three good trades — Crochet, DeJong, and Grossman.  Go figure, even Getz was able to get a good return for a cheap starter with control that magically turned into an ace!  Any GM could have done that.

The rest of his moves are mediocre to bad.  He ruined his Fedde acquisition by trading him for Vargas.

What is your list of all of Getz’s great trades?

The jury's still out on Vargas. I think Getz was probably overwhelmed by the TDL, then lied to by the Dodgers about Vargas' health. The other two players still exist, also. 

Trading from pitching prospect depth to bring in outfielders, or live bullpen arms is reasonable. If the player doesn't work out, that doesn't automatically mean the trade was a failure from the day he made it.

You're not showing you're a fair evaluator by pointing out that you didn't pull your usual nonsense on the Crochet trade. That was a very good return that took time and ability to pull off. Your own attitude about the Cease trade shows that the market, and timing can affect the return. 

I think the Bummer, Santos and Fletcher trades were reasonable., but you know all of this. Just because I don't rail on about Martin Maldonado every single day, in every thread doesn't mean that I kiss my 8x10 signed glossy photo of Chris Getz every night and silently thank him for signing Martin Maldonado. 

[WhiteSox2023]

18 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

The jury's still out on Vargas. I think Getz was probably overwhelmed by the TDL, then lied to by the Dodgers about Vargas' health. The other two players still exist, also. 

Trading from pitching prospect depth to bring in outfielders, or live bullpen arms is reasonable. If the player doesn't work out, that doesn't automatically mean the trade was a failure from the day he made it.

You're not showing you're a fair evaluator by pointing out that you didn't pull your usual nonsense on the Crochet trade. That was a very good return that took time and ability to pull off. Your own attitude about the Cease trade shows that the market, and timing can affect the return. 

I think the Bummer, Santos and Fletcher trades were reasonable., but you know all of this. Just because I don't rail on about Martin Maldonado every single day, in every thread doesn't mean that I kiss my 8x10 signed glossy photo of Chris Getz every night and silently thank him for signing Martin Maldonado. 

I have no clue what you are saying about me regarding the Crochet trade.  Go back to the trade thread — I called it a good return immediately when it happened.  But good lord, the dude was trading a starter that turned into an ace and making next to nothing.

The Bummer, Santos, and Fletcher trades were reasonable?  I disagree, as Fletcher is terrible, but regardless, reasonable still isn’t good.  I asked for your list of Getz’s good trades.  You cited one good trade that he made in Crochet and then rambled some more BS about Maldonado.  Even I managed to cite three.

Edited February 8 by WhiteSox2023

[WestEddy]

23 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I have no clue what you are saying about me regarding the Crochet trade.  Go back to the trade thread — I called it a good return immediately when it happened.  But good lord, the dude was trading a starter that turned into an ace and making next to nothing.

The Bummer, Santos, and Fletcher trades were reasonable?  I disagree, as Fletcher is terrible, but regardless, reasonable still isn’t good.  I asked for your list of Getz’s good trades.  You cited one good trade that he made in Crochet and then rambled some more BS about Maldonado.  Even I managed to cite three.

Of course, you called the Crochet trade good when it happened. That's like pointing at a car and calling it a car. Wow, good work noticing and acknowledging something that's obvious. But even then, you try to take credit away from Getz by saying "even Getz can get a good return for an ace with control". Your (incorrect) view on the Cease trade shows that you don't feel that "even Getz can get a good return for an ace with control". 

The Bummer trade was good. They got Soroka to work on and possibly fill an open rotation spot. They got a bullpen arm in Shuster, and a good pitching prospect in Gowens. Lopez made what he was worth, and looking at Shewmake being passed around the waiver wire shows that a guy with options who can play shortstop has value. The fact that Lopez played replacement level IF, and Soroka was injured at the TDL doesn't make it a "bad" trade. 

The Santos trade was good. Berroa has closer upside, and the draft pick turned into Blake Larson. The Fletcher trade was good at the time, trading from pitching depth for an outfielder. McCarthy or Fletcher was really a coin flip at the time. Fletcher was the better fielder. The DeJong, Eloy, Grossman and Banks trades were all good. 

I've explained my take on the Fedde trade. I think he got overwhelmed and was misled by the Dodgers. That trade was a prospect short. I'd like to see two of the three players recover from their injuries before I declare them to be sub-human, and Getz a complete failure. I also consider that the pro-scouting department was in flux, and who knows what info he was getting. 

The Cease trade was underwhelming, but the timing was tough, and Cease was coming off of a season where nobody knew which direction his career was heading. 

So, out of Getz's entire tenure, I'd say he made one "bad" trade, one underwhelming trade, and a couple that just didn't work out as intended. Those where he swapped equal non-entities, neither of whom worked out, are meaningless. You choose to rail on about Thompson for Horn or validate your initial take with 20/20 hindsight.