WestEddy Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 35 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: And who wouldn’t want to accept a promotion from a team in which the organization has historically not fired their front office people after years of poor results? it's a weird take that some of the most competitive people on the planet walk into a job thinking, "Yeah, I can f*** up for years and still get paid to play Wordle at work". Something tells me you have no grasp of the motivation of the people who take sports front office jobs. and Jesus, how is it NOT impressive that the most coveted managerial candidate jumped at the Sox job? Just repeating the same thing multiple times across multiple threads daily doesn't make it true. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 20 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: The story was TLR got paid something like $3 mil to be here. No word on what he is doing now. The rest? Yeah, no. Yes, paying a guy $3M who would have worked for scale proves that JR is cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 15 Author Share Posted October 15 (edited) 12 minutes ago, WestEddy said: it's a weird take that some of the most competitive people on the planet walk into a job thinking, "Yeah, I can f*** up for years and still get paid to play Wordle at work". Something tells me you have no grasp of the motivation of the people who take sports front office jobs. and Jesus, how is it NOT impressive that the most coveted managerial candidate jumped at the Sox job? Just repeating the same thing multiple times across multiple threads daily doesn't make it true. Really? There were 3 openings last offseason. He was the second hired. The first one was Terry Francona. I think he's probably a better manager than Wil Venable. Not only that, but they only had to beat out the Marlins. Edited October 15 by Dick Allen 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 12 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Yes, paying a guy $3M who would have worked for scale proves that JR is cheap. Now compare him to the rest of the managers Jerry has hired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 19 minutes ago, WestEddy said: it's a weird take that some of the most competitive people on the planet walk into a job thinking, "Yeah, I can f*** up for years and still get paid to play Wordle at work". Something tells me you have no grasp of the motivation of the people who take sports front office jobs. and Jesus, how is it NOT impressive that the most coveted managerial candidate jumped at the Sox job? Just repeating the same thing multiple times across multiple threads daily doesn't make it true. The Sox hired Grifail and he was an absolute joke. I truly believe he fits your first paragraph’s narrative. Meanwhile, the Sox reportedly beat out the Marlins for Venable’s services. ***** golf clap ***** 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 40 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: Really? There were 3 openings last offseason. He was the second hired. The first one was Terry Francona. I think he's probably a better manager than Wil Venable. Not only that, but they only had to beat out the Marlins. It’s difficult to debate with such hyperbole. Apparently, Venable was “the most coveted managerial candidate” of the 2024 offseason. Not the guy who reportedly signed for $5 million a year for 3 years in Francona. Does anyone think Jerry gave Venable $15 million guaranteed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 3 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: It’s difficult to debate with such hyperbole. Apparently, Venable was “the most coveted managerial candidate” of the 2024 offseason. Not the guy who reportedly signed for $5 million a year for 3 years in Francona. Does anyone think Jerry gave Venable $15 million guaranteed? Hyperbole personified. Pretending to laugh, golf clap or being a mini-me hasn't disproven a thing I've written. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 (edited) 15 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Hyperbole personified. Pretending to laugh, golf clap or being a mini-me hasn't disproven a thing I've written. Venable was not a more coveted managerial candidate than Francona. Francona took a year off from baseball due to health issues but that didn’t automatically make Venable more desirable. Desirability is indicated by pay. Counsell got 5-years and $40 million guaranteed a year earlier. Francona is rumored to have received 3-years and $15 million guaranteed from the Reds. I’d bet that Venable is no where near either of those contracts. The Sox beat out the Marlins in the final offers. There was no massive rush from multiple teams for Venable’s services. Just offers from two of the worst and cheapest teams in baseball. Perhaps if you would have stated that Venable was “the most coveted young managerial candidate” it could have been a true statement. But you didn’t say that. Edited October 15 by WhiteSox2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 22 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Venable was not a more coveted managerial candidate than Francona. Francona took a year off from baseball due to health issues but that didn’t automatically make Venable more desirable. Desirability is indicated by pay. Counsell got 5-years and $40 million guaranteed a year earlier. Francona is rumored to have received 3-years and $15 million guaranteed from the Reds. I’d bet that Venable is no where near either of those contracts. The Sox beat out the Marlins in the final offers. There was no massive rush from multiple teams for Venable’s services. Just offers from two of the worst and cheapest teams in baseball. Perhaps if you would have stated that Venable was “the most coveted young managerial candidate” it could have been a true statement. But you didn’t say that. You would have argued with it, anyway. Sure, Francona was more coveted than Venable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 15 Author Share Posted October 15 1 hour ago, WestEddy said: Hyperbole personified. Pretending to laugh, golf clap or being a mini-me hasn't disproven a thing I've written. But this, your next post, did: You would have argued with it, anyway. Sure, Francona was more coveted than Venable. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeC Posted October 15 Share Posted October 15 Did I miss anything here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 16 Share Posted October 16 1 hour ago, JoeC said: Did I miss anything here? Francona >>> Venable White Sox maybe more desirable than Marlins for employment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrockway Posted October 16 Share Posted October 16 (edited) 4 hours ago, Dick Allen said: But this, your next post, did: You would have argued with it, anyway. Sure, Francona was more coveted than Venable. Francona wasn't a realistic option for most teams. He was retired and the Reds seemingly convinced him to come out of retirement. I'd rather have a guy like Venable who is 25 years younger and just beginning his career. I think it makes a lot more sense for the Sox to get a guy like that. The talk at the time was that Venable was the most sought after manager compared to guys like Skip Schumaker, Phil Nevin, David Ross. It's interesting that Venable chose not to interview with the Mets or Guardians the year prior and also decided not to take over for Bochy in Texas. Shouldn't the Mets gig have been a perfect opportunity for him? I can totally imagine what this board would've said if Francona was hired and the Sox performed exactly the same as they did this season. TLR part 2 sans drunkenness. Would've been called an over-the-hill flop for sure. I was a little underwhelmed by some of the choices Venable made this year, but he was so much better than Grifol in their respective rookie seasons. I think the sky is the limit for Venable especially now that he can bring in his own staff. I wish he got angrier at umpires, but his cool demeanor seems to work for the players. Edited October 16 by nrockway 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted October 16 Share Posted October 16 13 minutes ago, nrockway said: Francona wasn't a realistic option for most teams. He was retired and the Reds seemingly convinced him to come out of retirement. I'd rather have a guy like Venable who is 25 years younger and just beginning his career. I think it makes a lot more sense for the Sox to get a guy like that. The talk at the time was that Venable was the most sought after manager compared to guys like Skip Schumaker, Phil Nevin, David Ross. It's interesting that Venable chose not to interview with the Mets or Guardians the year prior and also decided not to take over for Bochy in Texas. Shouldn't the Mets gig have been a perfect opportunity for him? I can totally imagine what this board would've said if Francona was hired and the Sox performed exactly the same as they did this season. TLR part 2 sans drunkenness. Would've been called an over-the-hill flop for sure. I was a little underwhelmed by some of the choices Venable made this year, but he was so much better than Grifol in their respective rookie seasons. I think the sky is the limit for Venable especially now that he can bring in his own staff. I wish he got angrier at umpires, but his cool demeanor seems to work for the players. Venable was a great hire. There's really no arguing that. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted October 16 Share Posted October 16 19 hours ago, WestEddy said: I haven't seen anything beyond this one set of listicles dropping a bunch of names: 10 potential candidates to become the next White Sox hitting coach | Sox On 35th 10 potential candidates to become the next White Sox pitching coach | Sox On 35th Based on these list, I want the pitching coach to be either Max Weiner, Mark Lowy, or Casey Jacobson. And for the hitting coach, I'd like either of Matt Borgschulte, Joel McKeithan, or Cody Atkinson. I think that whenever a team is filling out a staff they should look for guys who have backgrounds in player development, which is something that doesn't stop at the ML level. I also think these hires should be left up to Bannister and Fuller, let Venable recommend guys but I think Fuller and Bannister (and Getz) should sign off on the hires since they're the ones who the pitching and hitting coaches will be answering to. I really hope the Sox do hire more coaches and create new positions on the staff, like quality control and player development coaches. I imagine that they'll hire another offensive coordinator. I know McKinven can do the job of a catching coach but I think they should still hire another one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 16 Share Posted October 16 2 hours ago, Boopa1219 said: Based on these list, I want the pitching coach to be either Max Weiner, Mark Lowy, or Casey Jacobson. And for the hitting coach, I'd like either of Matt Borgschulte, Joel McKeithan, or Cody Atkinson. I think that whenever a team is filling out a staff they should look for guys who have backgrounds in player development, which is something that doesn't stop at the ML level. I also think these hires should be left up to Bannister and Fuller, let Venable recommend guys but I think Fuller and Bannister (and Getz) should sign off on the hires since they're the ones who the pitching and hitting coaches will be answering to. I really hope the Sox do hire more coaches and create new positions on the staff, like quality control and player development coaches. I imagine that they'll hire another offensive coordinator. I know McKinven can do the job of a catching coach but I think they should still hire another one. Wasn't Jacobson a basketball player for the Golden Gophers? https://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2024/11/29/24309114/cubs-name-casey-jacobson-assistant-pitching-coach Apparently five years with the Cubs as asst and also Driveline before that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MnSoxFan Posted October 16 Share Posted October 16 8 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Wasn't Jacobson a basketball player for the Golden Gophers? https://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2024/11/29/24309114/cubs-name-casey-jacobson-assistant-pitching-coach Apparently five years with the Cubs as asst and also Driveline before that... Sam Jacobson was 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 16 Share Posted October 16 16 hours ago, nrockway said: I can totally imagine what this board would've said if Francona was hired and the Sox performed exactly the same as they did this season. TLR part 2 sans drunkenness. Would've been called an over-the-hill flop for sure. I was a little underwhelmed by some of the choices Venable made this year, but he was so much better than Grifol in their respective rookie seasons. I think the sky is the limit for Venable especially now that he can bring in his own staff. I wish he got angrier at umpires, but his cool demeanor seems to work for the players. Are we really comparing Tony to Tito? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted October 16 Share Posted October 16 45 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Are we really comparing Tony to Tito? Yeah, one's in the HOF, and the other probably will be. How crazy for them to be mentioned in the same string. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 16 Share Posted October 16 21 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Yeah, one's in the HOF, and the other probably will be. How crazy for them to be mentioned in the same string. One was at the top of his game in the 2020's. The other was at the bottom of his bottle. Totally the same. Let's bring back Connie Mack! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted October 16 Share Posted October 16 5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: One was at the top of his game in the 2020's. The other was at the bottom of his bottle. Totally the same. Let's bring back Connie Mack! Are we actually comparing Connie Mack to today's managers? Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 16 Share Posted October 16 1 hour ago, WestEddy said: Are we actually comparing Connie Mack to today's managers? Wow. Yes, they both won World Series and are in the HOF! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrockway Posted October 16 Share Posted October 16 3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: Are we really comparing Tony to Tito? It’s genuinely a really easy comparison to make. Two of the longest tenured managers in baseball history with a roughly equal winning percentage. Multi- time managers of the year, World Series winners. Both came out of retirement to manage again (though Tito’s retirement was considerably shorter). Terry will have to win one more WS and manager of the year to catch La Russa though. I’m unsure what point you’re trying to make. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 16 Share Posted October 16 20 minutes ago, nrockway said: It’s genuinely a really easy comparison to make. Two of the longest tenured managers in baseball history with a roughly equal winning percentage. Multi- time managers of the year, World Series winners. Both came out of retirement to manage again (though Tito’s retirement was considerably shorter). Terry will have to win one more WS and manager of the year to catch La Russa though. I’m unsure what point you’re trying to make. All depends on your feeling about winning with Canseco McGwire and Pujols. https://www.riverfronttimes.com/albert-pujols-accused-of-steroid-use-i-know-for-a-fact-he-was-says-jack-clark/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted October 16 Share Posted October 16 (edited) 25 minutes ago, nrockway said: It’s genuinely a really easy comparison to make. Two of the longest tenured managers in baseball history with a roughly equal winning percentage. Multi- time managers of the year, World Series winners. Both came out of retirement to manage again (though Tito’s retirement was considerably shorter). Terry will have to win one more WS and manager of the year to catch La Russa though. I’m unsure what point you’re trying to make. I don't think Tito retired. I think he just took a break for his health. Edited October 16 by Bob Sacamano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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