Sox fire Katz and Thames

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Meanwhile, 83 wins for the Reds this year along with a playoff berth wasn’t a tough path, yet you praise Getz for helping to “improve” the Sox record from 41 wins to 60.  You and most other Sox fans would literally cream in their pants if Getz managed to put up an 83 win season within the next 3 seasons.

A postseason berth is phenomenal for the Reds, and would be for the White Sox, too. You should probably take pictures of these strings, then take notes on the Polaroids and keep them in your pocket, as we have to tell you the same thing over and over and over. 60 wins is a benchmark, it was my highest expectation for the season, and they met it. I don't know why I should think that's bad. 

You seem to think mocking simple facts cancels them out, but this is a rebuild. If you thought the organization Getz took over in August of 2023 was capable of posting a .500 record in 2024, and of making the playoffs this season, I can't fathom the level of delusional you occupy. 

 

[WestEddy]

19 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

He’s the hottest minor league pitching coach candidate the world has ever seen. The White Sox beat everyone out because this guy wants to work with the great Chris Getz. Just ask Westeddy.

 

Where has anybody said any of that? If you want to get on me for anything I said, like saying the 2024 bullpen was "lockdown", or calling Shane Drohan a pitching prospect (although you should look at his line at AAA for the Red Sox before you make fun of that), have at it. 

I don't think the guy's salivating at putting Chris Getz' name on his resume, but I could see working in a wide open environment under Brian Bannister as an exciting career move, and why wouldn't it be?

Oh, Drohan - Shane Drohan College, Amateur & Minor Leagues Statistics | Baseball-Reference.com

Edited October 17 by WestEddy

[WhiteSox2023]

48 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Where has anybody said any of that? If you want to get on me for anything I said, like saying the 2024 bullpen was "lockdown", or calling Shane Drohan a pitching prospect (although you should look at his line at AAA for the Red Sox before you make fun of that), have at it. 

I don't think the guy's salivating at putting Chris Getz' name on his resume, but I could see working in a wide open environment under Brian Bannister as an exciting career move, and why wouldn't it be?

Oh, Drohan - Shane Drohan College, Amateur & Minor Leagues Statistics | Baseball-Reference.com

I guess Getz and his staff didn’t think Drohan was worth retaining.  Getz DFA’ed Drohan last year to make room for the great Sammy Peralta.  Getz DFA’ed Peralta twice during the same season.

[Bob Sacamano]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

Where has anybody said any of that? If you want to get on me for anything I said, like saying the 2024 bullpen was "lockdown", or calling Shane Drohan a pitching prospect (although you should look at his line at AAA for the Red Sox before you make fun of that), have at it. 

I don't think the guy's salivating at putting Chris Getz' name on his resume, but I could see working in a wide open environment under Brian Bannister as an exciting career move, and why wouldn't it be?

Oh, Drohan - Shane Drohan College, Amateur & Minor Leagues Statistics | Baseball-Reference.com

Legit pitching prospects usually aren't unprotected.

Edited October 17 by Bob Sacamano

[Timmy U]

17 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I guess Getz and his staff didn’t think Drohan was worth retaining.  Getz DFA’ed Drohan last year to make room for the great Sammy Peralta.  Getz DFA’ed Peralta twice during the same season.

There’s a lot to criticize the Getz regime on, but their performance in the Rule 5 draft seems to be a pretty thin reed. Drohan wasn’t a sexy pick, but a lefty with starter traits who had success at AAA isn’t a horrible gamble for essentially nothing. Real problem there was health. Obviously they did much better this year.

Also, why are people dogging on some JC pitching coach for getting his dream job? Seems kinda extreme, but I suppose there’s not a lot of news until after the WS.

 

[WhiteSox2023]

18 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Legit pitching prospects usually aren't unprotected.

He’s also turning 27 in January and has yet to pitch in the majors.  Is he even really a “prospect” at this point?

[WestEddy]

23 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Legit pitching prospects usually aren't unprotected.

Apparently, they are. 

  

Edited October 17 by WestEddy

[WestEddy]

6 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

He’s also turning 27 in January and has yet to pitch in the majors.  Is he even really a “prospect” at this point?

He's a lefty who put up a WHIP of 1.007 and an ERA of 2.27 at AAA. Yes, he's a pitching prospect. 

[caulfield12]

21 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Apparently, they are. 

  

What percentage of Rule 5 guys even stick?

Does this means S.Smith will have a HoF track until being derailed by injuries?

And the Brewers rode guys like Priester Patrick and Misiorowski all the way to the doorstep of the World Series.  They simply had a pitching logjam in AA/AAA because of their quality depth.

[WhiteSox2023]

20 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

He's a lefty who put up a WHIP of 1.007 and an ERA of 2.27 at AAA. Yes, he's a pitching prospect. 

I just looked at the Red Sox top 30 prospect list and didn’t see Drohan.  However, I did see Yhoiker Fajardo at #25.  Getz strikes again!

[WestEddy]

9 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

And the Brewers rode guys like Priester Patrick and Misiorowski all the way to the doorstep of the World Series.  They simply had a pitching logjam in AA/AAA because of their quality depth.

Thus, proving my point that some pitching prospects go unprotected. Thank you, Holden. 

[WestEddy]

9 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I just looked at the Red Sox top 30 prospect list and didn’t see Drohan.  However, I did see Yhoiker Fajardo at #25.  Getz strikes again!

FanGraphs had him at #41 on their Red Sox prospects list. Thanks for pointing out another Getz development success. I hope he does better than Matthew Thompson or Cristian Mena, your last guaranteed ROY candidates. 

[WhiteSox2023]

26 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

FanGraphs had him at #41 on their Red Sox prospects list. Thanks for pointing out another Getz development success. I hope he does better than Matthew Thompson or Cristian Mena, your last guaranteed ROY candidates. 

I never said that about Thompson and Mena, but nice try putting words in my mouth like you always do to everyone.

But if Getz gets credit for the developmental success of players he DFA’s or trades away, shouldn’t he also be blamed for not keeping said prospects?

Afterall, Getz chose to add Sammy Peralta to the roster in 2024 rather than retaining Rule 5 pick Shane Drohan in a season his team lost a record-setting 121 games.  That is the type of season in which a Rule 5 pick can easily be retained, had Getz thought Drohan was worth keeping.  Getz DFA’ed Peralta twice that same season and he left via free agency at the end of the season.

Getz also thought that 33-year old, -0.5 bWAR, lefty reliever Cam Booser was worth trading away Fajardo for.

This is like praising Hahn and the Sox for signing and developing Fernando Tatis Jr. only for Hahn to trade him away for a washed-up bum in James Shields.  Congrats, I guess?

Edited October 17 by WhiteSox2023

[WestEddy]

51 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I never said that about Thompson and Mena, but nice try putting words in my mouth like you always do to everyone.

But if Getz gets credit for the developmental success of players he DFA’s or trades away, shouldn’t he also be blamed for not keeping said prospects?

Afterall, Getz chose to add Sammy Peralta to the roster in 2024 rather than retaining Rule 5 pick Shane Drohan in a season his team lost a record-setting 121 games.  That is the type of season in which a Rule 5 pick can easily be retained, had Getz thought Drohan was worth keeping.  Getz DFA’ed Peralta twice that same season and he left via free agency at the end of the season.

Getz also thought that 33-year old, -0.5 bWAR, lefty reliever Cam Booser was worth trading away Fajardo for.

This is like praising Hahn and the Sox for signing and developing Fernando Tatis Jr. only for Hahn to trade him away for a washed-up bum in James Shields.  Congrats, I guess?

Having dudes to pitch in the major league bullpen probably trumps a guy who was coming back slow from his injury, and most probably would have not lasted 90 days on the major league roster, thus pushing his Rule 5 status to the next season. I'm guessing Getz decided to cut bait. Perhaps you would have rather the Sox lost 125 games because they were short a man in the bullpen. Seeing how that 121 losses eats at you on a daily basis, I'm sure you'd appreciate Getz trying to get a better option on the major league roster than a rehabbing Rule 5 pick who wasn't tearing it up at the moment. 

But by all means, please tell me how a guy who was walking 9 per 9 IP at AAA could have been easily retained. 

I'm not sure what Cam Booser has to do with this. As far as the rest, you seem to be throwing sand in the sandbox because you don't want anybody comparing Will Venable to Terry Francona. I'll put the same question to you, Do you actually think that Terry Francona would have taken the 2025 White Sox team to the playoffs? That seems silly. 

[Tnetennba]

4 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

 

Has to be a minor league position, right?

These are the White Sox afterall.

Inexperienced at the MLB level and therefore cheap? Welcome aboard!

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, WestEddy said:

FanGraphs had him at #41 on their Red Sox prospects list. Thanks for pointing out another Getz development success. I hope he does better than Matthew Thompson or Cristian Mena, your last guaranteed ROY candidates. 

 

I keep hearing how prospect ratings don't really matter that much.

That pretty much only leaves the record of the big league team as the ultimate arbiter of success.

 

Nobody thinks Francona would have led the Sox anywhere besides last.

But a good number would question whether Venable could have gotten the Reds to the postseason in similar fashion.

 

Edited October 18 by caulfield12

[WestEddy]

9 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

 

I keep hearing how prospect ratings don't really matter that much.

That pretty much only leaves the record of the big league team as the ultimate arbiter of success.

 

Nobody thinks Francona would have led the Sox anywhere besides last.

But a good number would question whether Venable could have gotten the Reds to the postseason in similar fashion.

 

Ratings are a snapshot. They're not something to be attained, they're just a photo of what some "scouts" think of your system. Fajardo, matt Thompson, Cristian Mena, Aaron Combs, Luis Rodriguez, - none of these guys would have helped this team, and none have helped their new teams yet. 

I haven't seen anybody wonder here whether Will Venable could have motivated that Reds team to finish four games over 500 and make the playoffs on a participation seed. I may even be the first here to suggest that Francona's "manager's war" added a win to the Red's effort and got them past the Mets. 

Again, the discussion was that when Francona managed the Sox to a 60-102 record, or a 61-101 record, the usual suspects would not have praised Francona for his managerial prowess, and Getz for his wisdom in hiring Francona. 

[caulfield12]

48 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Ratings are a snapshot. They're not something to be attained, they're just a photo of what some "scouts" think of your system. Fajardo, matt Thompson, Cristian Mena, Aaron Combs, Luis Rodriguez, - none of these guys would have helped this team, and none have helped their new teams yet. 

I haven't seen anybody wonder here whether Will Venable could have motivated that Reds team to finish four games over 500 and make the playoffs on a participation seed. I may even be the first here to suggest that Francona's "manager's war" added a win to the Red's effort and got them past the Mets. 

Again, the discussion was that when Francona managed the Sox to a 60-102 record, or a 61-101 record, the usual suspects would not have praised Francona for his managerial prowess, and Getz for his wisdom in hiring Francona. 

FG has never been considered as good as Baseball America or Law or MLB Pipeline for prospect rankings btw.

Nobody on this site believes the Sox could have done anything other than  maybe beaten out the Twins for fourth.. which would have negatively impacted the draft odds for 2026 anyway.

[WestEddy]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

FG has never been considered as good as Baseball America or Law or MLB Pipeline for prospect rankings btw.

Nobody on this site believes the Sox could have done anything other than  maybe beaten out the Twins for fourth.. which would have negatively impacted the draft odds for 2026 anyway.

What are you even talking about? None of this has anything to do with my comment you're responding to. 

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

What are you even talking about? None of this has anything to do with my comment you're responding to. 

You keep quoting FG prospects ratings in this discussion back and forth.

Why why why?

 

Here's your direct quote...

"FanGraphs had him at #41 on their Red Sox prospects list. Thanks for pointing out another Getz development success. I hope he does better than Matthew Thompson or Cristian Mena, your last guaranteed ROY candidates"

Edited October 18 by caulfield12

[WestEddy]

11 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

You keep quoting FG prospects ratings in this discussion back and forth.

Why why why?

 

Here's your direct quote...

"FanGraphs had him at #41 on their Red Sox prospects list. Thanks for pointing out another Getz development success. I hope he does better than Matthew Thompson or Cristian Mena, your last guaranteed ROY candidates"

They're all "prospect rankings". I'm not sure where your question comes from. No rankings guarantee success. Yet, while claiming a prospect is a "bum", just because, the rankings do introduce an air of credibility around a player's prospect. But because a player isn't rank high doesn't mean he can't develop. 

[WhiteSox2023]

3 hours ago, WestEddy said:

Having dudes to pitch in the major league bullpen probably trumps a guy who was coming back slow from his injury, and most probably would have not lasted 90 days on the major league roster, thus pushing his Rule 5 status to the next season. I'm guessing Getz decided to cut bait. Perhaps you would have rather the Sox lost 125 games because they were short a man in the bullpen. Seeing how that 121 losses eats at you on a daily basis, I'm sure you'd appreciate Getz trying to get a better option on the major league roster than a rehabbing Rule 5 pick who wasn't tearing it up at the moment. 

But by all means, please tell me how a guy who was walking 9 per 9 IP at AAA could have been easily retained. 

I'm not sure what Cam Booser has to do with this. As far as the rest, you seem to be throwing sand in the sandbox because you don't want anybody comparing Will Venable to Terry Francona. I'll put the same question to you, Do you actually think that Terry Francona would have taken the 2025 White Sox team to the playoffs? That seems silly. 

Getz already set the record with 121 losses in 2024.  It’s funny that you actually care that he might have prevented the Sox from losing 125.  But fine, I’ll roll with that assumption.  So Sammy Peralta’s mediocre 15 innings pitched in 2024 prevented 4 more losses?  Okay…

You were actually trying to give props to Getz for his Rule 5 drafting of Drohan, just because Drohan pitched better for the Red Sox this year AFTER Getz DFA’ed him, and he is now Boston’s 41st ranked prospect.  Meanwhile, your same favorite GM traded away the Red Sox currently #25 ranked prospect in Fajardo for an old garbage lefty reliever in Cam Booser.

Are you still confused by my post?  I’m not sure how you can’t comprehend your own hypocrisy in your efforts to fluff up one Chris Getz.

Edited October 18 by WhiteSox2023

[WestEddy]

4 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Getz already set the record with 121 losses in 2024.  It’s funny that you actually care that he might have prevented the Sox from losing 125.  But fine, I’ll roll with that assumption.  So Sammy Peralta’s mediocre 15 innings pitched in 2024 prevented 4 more losses?  Okay…

You were actually trying to give props to Getz for his Rule 5 drafting of Drohan, just because Drohan pitched better for the Red Sox this year AFTER Getz DFA’ed him, and he is now Boston’s 41st ranked prospect.  Meanwhile, your same favorite GM traded away the Red Sox currently #25 ranked prospect in Fajardo for a garbage lefty reliever in Cam Booser.

Are you still confused by my post?  I’m not sure how you can’t comprehend your own hypocrisy in trying to fluff Getz.

1) Drohan is a starting pitching prospect. Which means, if he develops, they'll push him into starting. Of course, this is two years later. Prove me wrong or stop dragging this out. I'm guessing Getz acted on the old guard's scouting when they chose him. Bold choice, didn't work out. 

2) You incessantly whine about the losses record. I don't care about it. So if you think anything's funny, it's the guy in the mirror you're laughing at. 

3) The major league team matters. The GM tries to get players for the major league team. I'm not sure what you're not understanding about this. A pitcher who might contribute to the bullpen matters more than next year's Rule 5 dude. If you're going to declare victory every time a waiver wire pitcher doesn't come in and dominate, you're going to wear Canaan Smith-Nigba, Joey Bart and Alexander Canario. Weird how the Pirates aren't on the precipice of repeating as World Series champions on your guaranteed stud acquisitions. 

 

[WhiteSox2023]

25 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

1) Drohan is a starting pitching prospect. Which means, if he develops, they'll push him into starting. Of course, this is two years later. Prove me wrong or stop dragging this out. I'm guessing Getz acted on the old guard's scouting when they chose him. Bold choice, didn't work out. 

2) You incessantly whine about the losses record. I don't care about it. So if you think anything's funny, it's the guy in the mirror you're laughing at. 

3) The major league team matters. The GM tries to get players for the major league team. I'm not sure what you're not understanding about this. A pitcher who might contribute to the bullpen matters more than next year's Rule 5 dude. If you're going to declare victory every time a waiver wire pitcher doesn't come in and dominate, you're going to wear Canaan Smith-Nigba, Joey Bart and Alexander Canario. Weird how the Pirates aren't on the precipice of repeating as World Series champions on your guaranteed stud acquisitions. 

 

1)  “I’m guessing Getz acted on...”  Discussion over right there, but I’ll humor you.  Regardless, Shane Drohan is no longer with the White Sox so no matter how well he performs going forward, it won’t be for the White Sox.

2)  Once again, Getz DFA’ing Drohan to bring up Sammy Peralta did not prevent 4 more losses for the 2024 White Sox team, which was your claim.  The dude pitched only 15 innings and finished the season with an 0-0 record and a 4.80 ERA.

3)  Getz traded away a more valuable prospect in Fajardo than Drohan for an old garbage reliever in Cam Booser.  I have no idea why you are referencing the Pirates.  Chris Getz is not the GM of the Pirates.  Once again, you continue to misrepresent transactions as if I ever said guys like Smith-Nigba, Bart, or Canario would lead the Pirates, or the White Sox, to a World Series.  They were always flier acquisitions that the most losingest (is that even a word?) record-setting White Sox team could have given at bats to in 2024.  So basically that’s more obvious hyperbole from WestEddy when he is losing a discussion.  Get a new gimmick other than putting words in everyone else’s mouth as if it actually happened on this board, WE.  It didn’t.

So one again, where did Getz win in any of these three discussion points?  Can’t you simply call a spade a spade?

Edited October 18 by WhiteSox2023

[WestEddy]

4 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

1)  “I’m guessing Getz acted on...”  Discussion over right there, but I’ll humor you.  Regardless, Shane Drohan is no longer with the White Sox so no matter how well he performs going forward, it won’t be for the White Sox.

2)  Once again, Getz DFA’ing Drohan to bring up Sammy Peralta did not prevent 4 more losses for the 2024 White Sox team, which was your claim.

3)  Getz traded away a more valuable prospect in Fajardo than Drohan for an old garbage reliever in Cam Booser.

So where did Getz win in any of these three discussion points?  Can’t you simply call a spade a spade?

In that you're no longer a Sox fan. Good riddance to bad garbage. Good luck rooting for the Marlins. LOL.