White Sox add Tanner McDougal and Duncan Davitt to 40-man, Fraser Ellard on voluntary retired list

[caulfield12]

5 hours ago, WestEddy said:

There is no active roster in the off-season, just the 40-man.

If a team takes Adams in the Rule 5, they can park him on the 60-day IL in the first week of spring training. He earns a full year of major league service time. If he doesn't make 90 days on the active 26-man roster, his Rule 5 status rolls over to the next year (if the team keeps him, or if he's waived, and another team selects him). Adams then is on the 26-man roster for the next full season, earning another year of ML service time. 

No way the White Sox will do this … not until he’s ready to pitch in the majors, when/if that ever happens in his recovery.

He wasn’t an elite prospect in the first place and he still has to beat out a lot of guys like Thorpe that Getz will want to show/prove the return on his trades was worthwhile…especially with the Dylan Cease return way under water as of today.

[WestEddy]

4 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

No way the White Sox will do this … not until he’s ready to pitch in the majors, when/if that ever happens in his recovery.

He wasn’t an elite prospect in the first place and he still has to beat out a lot of guys like Thorpe that Getz will want to show/prove the return on his trades was worthwhile…especially with the Dylan Cease return way under water as of today.

No way the Sox will claim their own player in the Rule 5? You're replying to something I didn't write. I was explaining Rule 5 restrictions regarding Mason Adams. 

The White Sox declined to add Adams to the 40-man. Period. Adams had a clear shot in the spring of 2025 until he got injured. He may have even beaten out Cannon, who was still trying to find his pitches late in ST, and never really recovered his 2023-2024 form. I have no idea where Adams fits in the hierarchy with Bush and Thorpe. You keep attributing some huge ego problem to Getz where he's going to force roster moves that there's really no evidence of. Thorpe was a top prospect. He was also showing well against middling opposition until he hurt himself. 

[WhiteSox2023]

5 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

No way the White Sox will do this … not until he’s ready to pitch in the majors, when/if that ever happens in his recovery.

He wasn’t an elite prospect in the first place and he still has to beat out a lot of guys like Thorpe that Getz will want to show/prove the return on his trades was worthwhile…especially with the Dylan Cease return way under water as of today.

Looks like you misread his post.  He was talking about a scenario in which a team took Adams in the Rule 5.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

10 hours ago, nrockway said:

"business interests"

 

just take the money, bro

He has a digital marketing company with his brother that must be doing fairly well. It's not like he was being guaranteed league minimum bouncing between Charlotte and Chicago this past season. Probably way more consistent for what he wants out of life at this point.

[mac9001]

16 hours ago, WestEddy said:

There is no active roster in the off-season, just the 40-man.

If a team takes Adams in the Rule 5, they can park him on the 60-day IL in the first week of spring training. He earns a full year of major league service time. If he doesn't make 90 days on the active 26-man roster, his Rule 5 status rolls over to the next year (if the team keeps him, or if he's waived, and another team selects him). Adams then is on the 26-man roster for the next full season, earning another year of ML service time. 

My point was if you did put him on the 40 he'd be eating up a spot most of the year without likely having any real shot at pitching at the MLB level. Even as a rule 5 if you stash him on the 60-day eventually you'd need to with roster him or return him and having him get some innings in at the MLB level just to keep him as a R5 pick seems like a stretch for most orgs. Logically managing his R5 status probably isn't worth the hassle of picking him.

[WestEddy]

41 minutes ago, mac9001 said:

My point was if you did put him on the 40 he'd be eating up a spot most of the year without likely having any real shot at pitching at the MLB level. Even as a rule 5 if you stash him on the 60-day eventually you'd need to with roster him or return him and having him get some innings in at the MLB level just to keep him as a R5 pick seems like a stretch for most orgs. Logically managing his R5 status probably isn't worth the hassle of picking him.

Two teams took pitchers recovering from TJS last offseason. I think one is still with the selecting team. It's a calculated risk a team would take to bring on a real dude. 

Selecting a player, they take up a 40-man spot for 2 months. Once spring training opens, they can stow them on the 60-day IL. They have a period of time to rehab them in the minors before they have to put them on the 26-man roster, and if they make 90 days on that, they belong to the new team, no strings attached. 

A team like the White Sox (I stress "like") could certainly spare a 40-man spot for a rehabbing pitcher. We already have 3. 

Edited November 20 by WestEddy

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

10 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

No way the White Sox will do this … not until he’s ready to pitch in the majors, when/if that ever happens in his recovery.

He wasn’t an elite prospect in the first place and he still has to beat out a lot of guys like Thorpe that Getz will want to show/prove the return on his trades was worthwhile…especially with the Dylan Cease return way under water as of today.

Why do you always mention showing or proving the trade returns are legit ? Thorpe's been injured . He'd get a chance to prove hes healthy and/or good anyway. He's got a lot of eligibility . If he's worthy eventually he'll be an MLB pitcher if not i doubt his leash would be much longer than any other AAAA guy seeing if he can bounce back from TJ surgery  while he was trying to pitch after bone spurs got shaved down in his right elbow. He likely won't pitch til June or July. He's basically in the same boat Crochet was without Crochet stuff. He may get thrown into AAA 1st .He should get real chances in '26 and '27 . It has nothing to do with the trade. He's just another arm trying to prove something. He still has 3 options and is Arb. eligible in 2028.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Why do you always mention showing or proving the trade returns are legit ? Thorpe's been injured . He'd get a chance to prove hes healthy and/or good anyway. He's got a lot of eligibility . If he's worthy eventually he'll be an MLB pitcher if not i doubt his leash would be much longer than any other AAAA guy seeing if he can bounce back from TJ surgery  while he was trying to pitch after bone spurs got shaved down in his right elbow. He likely won't pitch til June or July. He's basically in the same boat Crochet was without Crochet stuff. He may get thrown into AAA 1st .He should get real chances in '26 and '27 . It has nothing to do with the trade. He's just another arm trying to prove something. He still has 3 options and is Arb. eligible in 2028.

We shall see if Getz ultimately has the same amount of loyalty to Quero/Sosa as newer guys like Teel Meidroth Thorpe Vargas and Mead... 

Think all you want that GM's are completely objective and never would even consider factors like this (how their own trade returns ultimately pan out in the media and with fanbases), all other things being equal. 

Is it not the least bit curious how almost any former Sox player or coach connected to Rick Hahn was summarily dumped and the majority were bad mouthed on the way out (see Andrew Vaughn this year)? 

For example, how many times have Sosa and Robert been labeled as low baseball IQ guys around here? Too many times to count.  Coincidence? 

Otoh let's say Miguel Vargas or Chase Meidroth is usually described as a gamer/clubhouse leader/diligent worker? 

 

It's like saying first and sixth round draftees have the same likelihood of making the big league team if the MiLB results and position profile are similar. 

Edited November 20 by caulfield12

[WestEddy]

14 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

We shall see if Getz ultimately has the same amount of loyalty to Quero/Sosa as newer guys like Teel Meidroth Thorpe Vargas and Mead... 

Think all you want that GM's are completely objective and never would even consider factors like this (how their own trade returns ultimately pan out in the media and with fanbases), all other things being equal. 

Is it not the least bit curious how almost any former Sox player or coach connected to Rick Hahn was summarily dumped and the majority were bad mouthed on the way out (see Andrew Vaughn this year)? 

For example, how many times have Sosa and Robert been labeled as low baseball IQ guys around here? Too many times to count.  Coincidence? 

Otoh let's say Miguel Vargas or Chase Meidroth is usually described as a gamer/clubhouse leader/diligent worker? 

 

It's like saying first and sixth round draftees have the same likelihood of making the big league team if the MiLB results and position profile are similar. 

This is a unique collection of nonsense musings. 

Getz doesn't seem to be hung up on forcing guys into the lineup who just aren't producing, even if they're one of his acquisitions. He cut bait pretty quickly on Dominic Fletcher and Zach DeLoach. Flexen, Cannon there's a bunch of guys who got demoted to the bullpen or minors to work on their craft. That doesn't mean we don't think a GM could be non-objective, no GM is completely objective. They're human. But Getz' teams have been pretty quick to pull the plug on his own dudes who drowned. 

Any former player or coach connected to Hahn? Summarily dumped? What team were you watching? Everybody here complained about how Grifol was kept, along with almost an entire coaching staff. Katz and Thames made two years. Vaughn and Robert got every chance to produce. Robert still is. Some unnamed person dishing to Liptak isn't "the organization bad-mouthing them" on the way out. Vaughn bad-played. Nobody needed to bad-mouth him. 

But you keep making up these little conspiracy theories. Are you actually saying the Sox org is seeding bad thoughts into SoxTalk about Lenyn Sosa? That is 2 funny. I don't recall anybody calling Robert "low IQ" beyond his swing decisions. 

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

This is a unique collection of nonsense musings. 

Getz doesn't seem to be hung up on forcing guys into the lineup who just aren't producing, even if they're one of his acquisitions. He cut bait pretty quickly on Dominic Fletcher and Zach DeLoach. Flexen, Cannon there's a bunch of guys who got demoted to the bullpen or minors to work on their craft. That doesn't mean we don't think a GM could be non-objective, no GM is completely objective. They're human. But Getz' teams have been pretty quick to pull the plug on his own dudes who drowned. 

Any former player or coach connected to Hahn? Summarily dumped? What team were you watching? Everybody here complained about how Grifol was kept, along with almost an entire coaching staff. Katz and Thames made two years. Vaughn and Robert got every chance to produce. Robert still is. Some unnamed person dishing to Liptak isn't "the organization bad-mouthing them" on the way out. Vaughn bad-played. Nobody needed to bad-mouth him. 

But you keep making up these little conspiracy theories. Are you actually saying the Sox org is seeding bad thoughts into SoxTalk about Lenyn Sosa? That is 2 funny. I don't recall anybody calling Robert "low IQ" beyond his swing decisions. 

I thought the story was that Getz wasn't allowed to dump guys on multi-year contracts and this was his first chance to shape his coaching staff with Venable?  At least that's what we were told six weeks ago.

[caulfield12]

11 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

This is a unique collection of nonsense musings. 

Getz doesn't seem to be hung up on forcing guys into the lineup who just aren't producing, even if they're one of his acquisitions. He cut bait pretty quickly on Dominic Fletcher and Zach DeLoach. Flexen, Cannon there's a bunch of guys who got demoted to the bullpen or minors to work on their craft. That doesn't mean we don't think a GM could be non-objective, no GM is completely objective. They're human. But Getz' teams have been pretty quick to pull the plug on his own dudes who drowned. 

Any former player or coach connected to Hahn? Summarily dumped? What team were you watching? Everybody here complained about how Grifol was kept, along with almost an entire coaching staff. Katz and Thames made two years. Vaughn and Robert got every chance to produce. Robert still is. Some unnamed person dishing to Liptak isn't "the organization bad-mouthing them" on the way out. Vaughn bad-played. Nobody needed to bad-mouth him. 

But you keep making up these little conspiracy theories. Are you actually saying the Sox org is seeding bad thoughts into SoxTalk about Lenyn Sosa? That is 2 funny. I don't recall anybody calling Robert "low IQ" beyond his swing decisions. 

Getz doesn't seem to be hung up on forcing guys into the lineup who just aren't producing... 

See Curtis Mead down the stretch. 

Everyone else in baseball doesn't see anything there... and moved on in their evaluations. 

Right now, there are 9 spots and the only players who look like they have more than a 50/50 chance to be a part of the next Sox playoff team based on last year are Colson and Teel... and Braden coming fast in the minors. 

Nobody else, including guys like Bonemer or Antonacci, are close to a "sure thing" right now. 

 

On the coaching side, Grady Sizemore would be one obvious example. 

Base running and outfield defense should be two of his core competencies, and exactly what he will be doing in Minnesota.  But he was exiled to offensive coordinator, which is a fancy way of saying he had no power or influence over anything at all. 

Edited November 20 by caulfield12

[WestEddy]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I thought the story was that Getz wasn't allowed to dump guys on multi-year contracts and this was his first chance to shape his coaching staff with Venable?  At least that's what we were told six weeks ago.

I'm not sure what the conspiratorial narrative you're pushing here is. That Getz is a puppet, or that he fired every Hahn person in a rage? Caulfield seems to be saying that EVERY PLAYER and EVERY COACH has been summarily dumped and besmirched on their way out. They weren't. Most were kept for a year. Venable seemed to have to speak up to voice a change in focus on the hitting side, that wasn't happening, and Katz's bullpens can speak for themselves. 

[Dick Allen]

6 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I'm not sure what the conspiratorial narrative you're pushing here is. That Getz is a puppet, or that he fired every Hahn person in a rage? Caulfield seems to be saying that EVERY PLAYER and EVERY COACH has been summarily dumped and besmirched on their way out. They weren't. Most were kept for a year. Venable seemed to have to speak up to voice a change in focus on the hitting side, that wasn't happening, and Katz's bullpens can speak for themselves. 

If the bullpen is on the coach, how did the bullpen coach survive?

[WestEddy]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Getz doesn't seem to be hung up on forcing guys into the lineup who just aren't producing... 

See Curtis Mead down the stretch. 

Everyone else in baseball doesn't see anything there... and moved on in their evaluations. 

Right now, there are 9 spots and the only players who look like they have more than a 50/50 chance to be a part of the next Sox playoff team based on last year are Colson and Teel... and Braden coming fast in the minors. 

Nobody else, including guys like Bonemer or Antonacci, are close to a "sure thing" right now. 

Dude, should a team not get a look at a new acquisition during garbage time? And with the injuries they had, whom was Mead taking playing time from who truly deserved it? You seem to just spew nonsense and pretend it fits your narrative. 

Do you have money on the Sox making the playoffs in 2026? If not, I wouldn't expect the entire next playoff team to be the opening day lineup just yet. And what about Shane Smith? I thought you were starting multiple threads opining about how he was going to be the next perennial superstar. 

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I'm not sure what the conspiratorial narrative you're pushing here is. That Getz is a puppet, or that he fired every Hahn person in a rage? Caulfield seems to be saying that EVERY PLAYER and EVERY COACH has been summarily dumped and besmirched on their way out. They weren't. Most were kept for a year. Venable seemed to have to speak up to voice a change in focus on the hitting side, that wasn't happening, and Katz's bullpens can speak for themselves. 

Obviously it can't be EVERY single guy. 

Colson Montgomery's comeback is his crowning achievement so far, for example.  Inherited, like Quero. 

But certainly a strong strong majority of Hahn players. 

And we still don't know what leeway if any he has to deal with the Robert and Benintendi contracts.  Clearly Getz thought Robert was worth doubling down on to maximize the trade return after two consecutive rough seasons. 

 

[WestEddy]

6 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

If the bullpen is on the coach, how did the bullpen coach survive?

Do you think that relief pitchers came into games not sufficiently warmed up? Because that's pretty much what the bullpen coach is responsible for. The pitching coach works with them on their pitches and mechanics. 

[caulfield12]

10 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Dude, should a team not get a look at a new acquisition during garbage time?

Do you have money on the Sox making the playoffs in 2026? If not, I wouldn't expect the entire next playoff team to be the opening day lineup just yet. And what about Shane Smith? I thought you were starting multiple threads opining about how he was going to be the next perennial superstar. 

"And with the injuries they had, whom was Mead taking playing time from who truly deserved it? You seem to just spew nonsense and pretend it fits your narrative."

 

Every single player on the position player side right now looks like glue or complementary players other than the obvious ones like Colson Teel and Braden. 

That lineup is still miles and miles away from being competitive... and those same 3 players will be into years 2-3-4 of their careers before they see any major changes in FA spending in 2028 and most likely years 3-4-5 in 2029. 

Ofc then the Pirates' or Rays' way would be to trade/retool rather than extend them. 

And there's zero hint of a young pitcher right now who would be anywhere close to an extension...if JR even still believes in such a thing anymore. 

Edited November 20 by caulfield12

[WestEddy]

5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Obviously it can't be EVERY single guy. 

Colson Montgomery's comeback is his crowning achievement so far, for example.  Inherited, like Quero. 

But certainly a strong strong majority of Hahn players. 

And we still don't know what leeway if any he has to deal with the Robert and Benintendi contracts.  Clearly Getz thought Robert was worth doubling down on to maximize the trade return after two consecutive rough seasons. 

 

Getz has been GM since August of 2023. The team was horrible. Are you saying they should have kept and resigned every player Hahn left behind? You would have to make individual arguments on why you think that guys like Seby Zavala, Grandal and Oscar Colas deserved new multi-year contracts to continue the elite baseball playing they were doing under Rick Hahn. Why do you think the White Sox should have resigned Yoan Moncada? Jesse Scholtens?

[WestEddy]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

"And with the injuries they had, whom was Mead taking playing time from who truly deserved it? You seem to just spew nonsense and pretend it fits your narrative."

 

Every single player on the position player side right now looks like glue or complementary players other than the obvious ones like Colson Teel and Braden. 

That lineup is still miles and miles away from being competitive... and those same 3 players will be into years 2-3-4 of their careers before they see any major changes in 2028 and most likely years 3-4-5 in 2029. 

Ofc then the Pirates' or Rays' way would be to trade rather than extend them. 

And there's zero hint of a pitcher right now who would be anywhere close to an extension...if JR even still believes in such a thing anymore. 

So anybody besides Teel or Colson being in the lineup means that Getz is on the phone to the dugout, tearing Venable a new one to put each player in the lineup on a daily basis? Please make it make sense. You seem to be saying that unless Getz is bullying the entire organization into doing his bidding, or unless Getz is a puppet of JR doing just that, Venable would only write up line-ups with two players in them every day? Because the only way players are written into starting lineups is for Getz to go all Cray brothers on the clubhouse? 

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Getz has been GM since August of 2023. The team was horrible. Are you saying they should have kept and resigned every player Hahn left behind? You would have to make individual arguments on why you think that guys like Seby Zavala, Grandal and Oscar Colas deserved new multi-year contracts to continue the elite baseball playing they were doing under Rick Hahn. Why do you think the White Sox should have resigned Yoan Moncada? Jesse Scholtens?

This is totally pointless. 

Let's wait until 2028 or 2029 before we can properly evaluate Chris Getz as a GM. 

You and Cali if you had to bet your houses on Getz still being around as GM in 2029 would likely be the ONLY two yes votes on the entire site. 

And why do you think that is? 

Well the very obvious conspiracy to hold back the greatest young GM in the game since Branch Rickey with the Brooklyn Dodgers. 

[caulfield12]

11 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

So anybody besides Teel or Colson being in the lineup means that Getz is on the phone to the dugout, tearing Venable a new one to put each player in the lineup on a daily basis? Please make it make sense. You seem to be saying that unless Getz is bullying the entire organization into doing his bidding, or unless Getz is a puppet of JR doing just that, Venable would only write up line-ups with two players in them every day? Because the only way players are written into starting lineups is for Getz to go all Cray brothers on the clubhouse? 

JR >>>>> Getz

Both are terrible, and Venable might have a chance to survive all this. 

Maybe. Maybe not. 

Getz and Venable are merely puppets or figureheads to deflect blame and criticism directed at JR from the fans, in the same way Robin Ventura's sterling reputation was sullied by his almost forced association with the team post KW/Ozzie. 

And the wheels on the bus go round and round... with JR the one holding the entire franchise in limbo for over a decade due to capital gains taxes. 

Just like the Pohlads in Minnesota. 

Edited November 20 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

28 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I'm not sure what the conspiratorial narrative you're pushing here is. That Getz is a puppet, or that he fired every Hahn person in a rage? Caulfield seems to be saying that EVERY PLAYER and EVERY COACH has been summarily dumped and besmirched on their way out. They weren't. Most were kept for a year. Venable seemed to have to speak up to voice a change in focus on the hitting side, that wasn't happening, and Katz's bullpens can speak for themselves. 

It has been said multiple times that Getz was not allowed to fire anyone who was under a multi-year contract, and that was why these guys were just now fired.  It was being used as an excuse that these guys didn't have their people, and that's what these changes were about, and why this was the timing.  If you want to dismiss that a "conspiracy" I suppose you go girl.

 

[WestEddy]

45 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

It has been said multiple times that Getz was not allowed to fire anyone who was under a multi-year contract, and that was why these guys were just now fired.  It was being used as an excuse that these guys didn't have their people, and that's what these changes were about, and why this was the timing.  If you want to dismiss that a "conspiracy" I suppose you go girl.

 

Yes, I believe we all agree that Getz probably wanted his own coaching hires, and JR probably told him to slow his roll, they can't pay two staffs. So they hired Venable, he worked with the old guard for a year, picked a couple who he worked well with, the other contracts weren't renewed, the end. 

Or we can frame it in the world of puppets, and agendas, and besmirching, and all that. 

There was a pretty stark situation with Thames at the ASB where Venable announced to the press that he wanted a change in focus for hitting. I don't think anybody disputes that. Not that Thames sucked. Not that Venable is a despicable human, just didn't work well together or something, but once Venable got his way, the team broke out. Thames is still recognized as a good hitting coach, nobody spit on his back as he left. 

I also feel the pitching staff under-performed. Some of the guys pitched to their ceilings, but some others didn't. 

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Yes, I believe we all agree that Getz probably wanted his own coaching hires, and JR probably told him to slow his roll, they can't pay two staffs. So they hired Venable, he worked with the old guard for a year, picked a couple who he worked well with, the other contracts weren't renewed, the end. 

Or we can frame it in the world of puppets, and agendas, and besmirching, and all that. 

There was a pretty stark situation with Thames at the ASB where Venable announced to the press that he wanted a change in focus for hitting. I don't think anybody disputes that. Not that Thames sucked. Not that Venable is a despicable human, just didn't work well together or something, but once Venable got his way, the team broke out. Thames is still recognized as a good hitting coach, nobody spit on his back as he left. 

I also feel the pitching staff under-performed. Some of the guys pitched to their ceilings, but some others didn't. 

You can do whatever you want.

[Dick Allen]

5 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Yes, I believe we all agree that Getz probably wanted his own coaching hires, and JR probably told him to slow his roll, they can't pay two staffs. So they hired Venable, he worked with the old guard for a year, picked a couple who he worked well with, the other contracts weren't renewed, the end. 

Or we can frame it in the world of puppets, and agendas, and besmirching, and all that. 

There was a pretty stark situation with Thames at the ASB where Venable announced to the press that he wanted a change in focus for hitting. I don't think anybody disputes that. Not that Thames sucked. Not that Venable is a despicable human, just didn't work well together or something, but once Venable got his way, the team broke out. Thames is still recognized as a good hitting coach, nobody spit on his back as he left. 

I also feel the pitching staff under-performed. Some of the guys pitched to their ceilings, but some others didn't. 

Thames was a Getz hire I believe.