20 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

It's not a poor comparison. The Vargas trade wasn't "bad", then it became "good" when Vargas started hitting. We all knew what the point of that trade was. Post-hype player, work with him to regain his prospect. To say Vargas stunk during 2025 is ludicrous. He put up 1.9 bWAR in his first full MLB season. That's an average major league player.

But you're doing just what I'm talking about, pretending a trade was bad because what everybody planned on happened. Is there a contest I don't know about where people who are the fastest to declare a trade bad win something? Because I can't think of another reason why people scream about Getz messing up, not knowing talent, then all that garbage, then dig in and declare they were right all along, even as the object of their wrath is hitting home runs in the All Star game.

It is an awful comparison. The Sox acquired Vargas because they weren’t vying for a playoff spot, Vargas had multiple years of control remaining, and they had time to try to fix him.

Castillo was acquired to improve the rotation right now in a playoff run, as well as improve it for next season, because he’s gone after next season. He doesn’t have much time to figure it out. And thus far, he has been awful through 5 starts with 1 good start. There is no guarantee that the Sox are in this same position next season, so Castillo’s starts right now are even more vital to the team since next year is not guaranteed.

It isn’t a good comparison of trades at all.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/shielja02.shtml

Total Sox bWAR -0.3

Well Tatis Jr. and Sosa were cheaters anyway so those two trades don't count and Chicago baseball history can just be rewound/rewritten

And ofc Hahn's kid Jacob (Rice Univ) is now working as an intern in analytics (baseball ops analyst) for the Cubs of all teams. Looks like it turned into a permanent gig.

Edited 13 hours ago13 hr by caulfield12

Also looks like the Sox need to send just a few more scouts to Curacao.

Jurdrick Profar ... not so good.

Edited 13 hours ago13 hr by caulfield12

30 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Ladies and gentlemen, this has to be the first defense of the Shields trade in history with the benefit of hindsight. Good lord…

I guess it depends on your definition of 'serviceable' doesn't it? 🙂

Shields 5.31 ERA ranks second only to Jaime Navarro for highest in team history among pitchers allowed to throw at least 400 innings for the club."

From the Sun-Times postgame story Sunday:

No panic for Castillo

"General manager Chris Getz hasn’t exactly gotten what he ordered with trade-deadline prize Luis Castillo, who has posted a 6.45 ERA in five starts for the Sox.

After his latest clunker in Minneapolis on Friday, said his struggles have come when he’s “trying to be perfect with every pitch.”

“Pitching for this team gives me a lot of confidence because I know that I’m on a good team,” Castillo said via interpreter Billy Russo. “Those guys have my back and every time I go there, they’re going to try to perform and do their best with every at-bat.

“I’ve been feeling pretty comfortable here. We’ve created a good relationship with my teammates and the manager and of course the pitching coach. We’re in a good spot and we’re always in communication, trying to get better and improve.”

51 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Ladies and gentlemen, this has to be the first defense of the Shields trade in history with the benefit of hindsight. Good lord…

Are you saying he didn't throw 204 innings in 2018? When you don't have an argument, you make up things to mock.

4 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Are you saying he didn't throw 204 innings in 2018? When you don't have an argument, you make up things to mock.

Shields wasn’t acquired to have a mediocre season in the third year of the trade. But then again, you already knew this. It’s actually hard to tell that you aren’t @ron883-rolling me right now with this troll-job, because it is laughable at best.

Edited 12 hours ago12 hr by WhiteSox2023

50 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

The Sox acquired Vargas because they weren’t vying for a playoff spot, Vargas had multiple years of control remaining, and they had time to try to fix him.

Have you gone back and edited the thousands of posts that screamed that Vargas sucked and Getz made a horrible trade to now include this newfound wisdom? Because you never mentioned this in your thousands of posts. I seem to remember your assertion being that Vargas was "bad", would never be "good", and that Getz made a horrible trade because Reinsdorf's cheap. Maybe you can get to this place a little faster for Castillo.

They traded for a guy who as recently as last year had good success. They probably see a few changes that may take a series of starts to implement and get working consistently. The Sox pretty much have a playoff spot sewn up with other pitchers who have been as bad as Castillo's 4 of 5 starts. So he has about another 5 starts to right the ship.

Frankly, I don't get the notion that a bunch of guys here saw a pitcher who sucked all year, and are now surprised that he's struggling to implement his changes.

5 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Shields wasn’t acquired to have a mediocre season in the third year of the trade. But then again, you already knew this. It’s actually hard to tell that you aren’t @ron883-rolling me right now with this troll-job, because it is laughable at best.

Do you need somebody to congratulate you on noticing that the Shields trade was a "bad" trade"? Attaboy!! I haven't seen somebody take a victory lap in a while over the Shields trade, but sometimes we all need a validating jog.

17 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Have you gone back and edited the thousands of posts that screamed that Vargas sucked and Getz made a horrible trade to now include this newfound wisdom? Because you never mentioned this in your thousands of posts. I seem to remember your assertion being that Vargas was "bad", would never be "good", and that Getz made a horrible trade because Reinsdorf's cheap. Maybe you can get to this place a little faster for Castillo.

They traded for a guy who as recently as last year had good success. They probably see a few changes that may take a series of starts to implement and get working consistently. The Sox pretty much have a playoff spot sewn up with other pitchers who have been as bad as Castillo's 4 of 5 starts. So he has about another 5 starts to right the ship.

Frankly, I don't get the notion that a bunch of guys here saw a pitcher who sucked all year, and are now surprised that he's struggling to implement his changes.

Vargas was bad when he was first acquired, but he was at least still young with several years of control. I’m still not sure what this has to do with Castillo being Shields v2.0. Shields and Castillo were both old and bad when acquired. There’s a difference. The Vargas trade and the trades for Shields and Castillo are not in anyway similar.

Regarding your last paragraph, your comments make the trade and Getz look even worse if he acquired a starting pitcher that he didn’t think could help the team for the playoff stretch.

Edited 11 hours ago11 hr by WhiteSox2023

15 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Do you need somebody to congratulate you on noticing that the Shields trade was a "bad" trade"? Attaboy!! I haven't seen somebody take a victory lap in a while over the Shields trade, but sometimes we all need a validating jog.

Yep, and here’s where you start to veer off course as usual because even you are realizing that your argument is weak. I’m not taking a victory lap over the Shields trade. Meanwhile, you are arguing that it wasn’t that bad because he ate some innings in the final season of his career before being forced into retirement. 🤣

Edited 12 hours ago12 hr by WhiteSox2023

"The Sox pretty much have a playoff spot sewn up with other pitchers who have been as bad as Castillo's 4 of 5 starts. So he has about another 5 starts to right the ship."

Serviceable WE quote.

Surely, the networks will run this in their promotional pieces for when the Sox face Houston or WC #3 in the ALDS.

15.333 ip 16 er four other "serviceable" Castillo starts

9.39 ERA

"You're likeable enough, HRC."

Edited 11 hours ago11 hr by caulfield12

The stars at night

Are big and bright

Castillo gets it done in Texas.

Edited 11 hours ago11 hr by Falstaff

1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Vargas was bad when he was first acquired, but he was at least still young with several years of control. I’m still not sure what this has to do with Castillo being Shields v2.0. Shields and Castillo were both old and bad when acquired. There’s a difference. The Vargas trade and the trades for Shields and Castillo are not in anyway similar.

Regarding your last paragraph, your comments make the trade and Getz look even worse if he acquired a starting pitcher that he didn’t think could help the team for the playoff stretch.

But that didn't make the trade "bad". They knew what they were getting. They traded accordingly, and the very next season, they had an average major leaguer putting up 2 WAR on their hands. But you called it a horrible trade and rode anyone who made this distinction. You mocked everyone who called it a rebuilding year. You're doing the same thing here. I get it. I'd like Castillo to have thrown 5 complete games here already. He hasn't. They knew they were trading for a project. I believe that was all that was available for anything less than their top tier of prospects.

Edited 10 hours ago10 hr by WestEddy

15 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

But that didn't make the trade "bad". They knew what they were getting. They traded accordingly, and the very next season, they had an average major leaguer putting up 2 WAR on their hands. But you called it a horrible trade and rode anyone who made this distinction. You mocked everyone who called it a rebuilding year. You're doing the same thing here. I get it. I'd like Castillo to have thrown 5 complete games here already. He hasn't. They knew they were trading for a project. I believe that was all that was available for anything less than their top tier of prospects.

That’s a more reasonable take, but in that case you may as well pay the smaller cost for a rental and look to sign a starter in the offseason.

8 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

That’s a more reasonable take, but in that case you may as well pay the smaller cost for a rental and look to sign a starter in the offseason.

Absolutely, now we have a guy that is sucking this season and way overpaid for next year.

3 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

That’s a more reasonable take, but in that case you may as well pay the smaller cost for a rental and look to sign a starter in the offseason.

It's still dumb as hell. Why are we trading for a supposed 33 year old "project" who was one of the worst pitchers in the MLB when we are trying to make a playoff run? It doesn't help up this year and probably hurts is next year given his salary. Trying to justify the trade is pure cope. Getz got too cute and got taken advantage of.

1 minute ago, fathom said:

Absolutely, now we have a guy that is sucking this season and way overpaid for next year.

And why are we taking on risky "projects" when we're trying to make a pennant run? It's so stupid.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/player/gamelog/_/id/33773/foster-griffin

4 good starts out of 5 3.96 era

not a risky contract, either

Pretty sure Skubal Mahle and Griffin are the only three deadline guys with under 4 era's at this point...

The White Sox couldn't beat that package???

MLB Trade Rumors

Guardians Acquire Foster Griffin

Washington's surprise ace is on his way to Cleveland. MLB Trade Rumors has the latest on the Guards' big deadline swing.

Edited 10 hours ago10 hr by caulfield12

15 minutes ago, ron883 said:

And why are we taking on risky "projects" when we're trying to make a pennant run? It's so stupid.

I promise you if Getz could get a mulligan on that trade, he would

Plus the Guardians are getting $2.8 million back to spend on the overage/faked identity LA intl signing...

Marco Paddy - Baseball Operations Leader | Latin America Scouting ...

"Excited to share that I’ve officially started as a Financial Services Business Development Representative at Salesforce! A huge thank you..."

25	CHW	72-63	$102,161,232
26	WSH	65-73	$98,225,193
27	ATH	53-83	$97,339,345
28	STL	68-69	$91,836,093
29	MIA	68-68	$82,145,481
30	CLE	68-68	$77,648,749

Edited 9 hours ago9 hr by caulfield12

14 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/player/gamelog/_/id/33773/foster-griffin

4 good starts out of 5 3.96 era

not a risky contract, either

Pretty sure Skubal Mahle and Griffin are the only three deadline guys with under 4 era's at this point...

The White Sox couldn't beat that package???

MLB Trade Rumors

Guardians Acquire Foster Griffin

Washington's surprise ace is on his way to Cleveland. MLB Trade Rumors has the latest on the Guards' big deadline swing.

Agree with you but I also have to say, and I can't believe I'm doing this, that we don't know what restrictions or conditions Getz was put into by JR regarding the deadline.

Maybe JR had nothing to do with things, in which case it's completely on Getz for the stupidity, but based on past history I wouldn't put it past JR to be involved in matters and decision this past end of July.

1 minute ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Agree with you but I also have to say, and I can't believe I'm doing this, that we don't know what restrictions or conditions Getz was put into by JR regarding the deadline.

Maybe JR had nothing to do with things, in which case it's completely on Getz for the stupidity, but based on past history I wouldn't put it past JR to be involved in matters and decision this past end of July.

Except Griffin is basically as cheap as they come.

There's no world where JR wants to add a $20+ million commitment for next year unless

A. it provides a tax write off advantage

B. JR believes a minimum salary floor is coming and they need to start adding to get to let's say $130-140 million with a very limited number of quality FA's to bid upon

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Except Griffin is basically as cheap as they come.

There's no world where JR wants to add a $20+ million commitment for next year unless

A. it provides a tax write off advantage

B. JR believes a minimum salary floor is coming and they need to start adding to get to let's say $130-140 million with a very limited number of quality FA's to bid upon

Anything is possible but I'd say the odds of the MLBPA accepting a salary cap (which would trigger a floor) are slim and none.

If we had a poll of who is more deserving of a contract extension, Venable or Getz, does anyone believe Chris would come close to winning?

Edited 8 hours ago8 hr by caulfield12