striker Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 I like the team we have now. I'd rather see how the pitchers perform in Spring Training before we do anything stupid. If it looks ugly after ST then make a move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Godfather Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 I dont trade either Paulie Or Big Hurt for perez straight up no way. I think Paulie will bounce back this season and Thomas showed the Power Numbers last year Maybe this year he gets it all back. I just dont think you trade a guy who has become The face of your franchise for the past decade for a + pitcher and nothing else maybe Edwin Jackson and Perez or Perez and Mota but not just perez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Yeah, you got a point there, you know when the sports world is down when Bobby Knight is leading Sportcenter yesterday for "almost" getting suspended for 5 days. Im sure the Score had nothing else to talk about, cause the Pro Bowl is certainly not worthy of discussion. you know, it would be helpful if ESPN ran on a contest on what my next Sox logo tattoo should be - that at least would be of more news value than what they usually do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 a lot of people seem to have missed (at least imo) on odalis perez...he is 26 , a lefty that throws 95 plus...he averaged 205 IP the last 2 years...has an icredible WHIP over that time (1.12)..his control has been impeccable...right at one walk every 4 IP...and although his numbers went down from '02 to '03 his strike out / per IP went up..indicating he didnt lose his stuff and probably just needs a slight adjustment or two to get back on track...this kid is only 26 , he's headed for his prime years.. Â of course i cant answer for his clubhouse demeanor...if he acts like d'angeloser did than id never want him... Â with that said , i would never trade him straight up for thomas...never...its important , imo , that thomas retires a white sox...it has to happen with this guy..we need some kind of positive PR out of this organization and that would be a start in the right direction... Â konerko yes...id jump on that deal....id even be willing to send a prospect with paulie...just to dump his salary..he his so overpaid is rediculous...and that 8 million minus whatever perez gets could go towards us making a deal to land a real leadoff hitter..hopefully one thats a 2nd baseman or CF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 konerko yes...id jump on that deal....id even be willing to send a prospect with paulie  See, now that's where I agree.  By trading Paulie for OP, we effectively save 12 Mill over 2 years-- history has shown that just a coupla extra Mill spent can go a long way toward putting a team over the top in an extremely close 3-way race. Let alone 6 per.  We also wash our hands of an overrated fielder, a base-clogging GIDP machine, a mental case AND we don't have to worry about Hipgate anymore.  Even given Paulie's upside (900 OPS/115 RBI), because of the above baggage, paying him 8.5 Mill per, 1/8th of the entire budget, is not wise.  Knowing that getting Maddux was a pipe dream (not that I advocate paying 18 over 2 years or whatever Bore-Us is bluffing for these days for a 38-year-old), we should pray that Dodgers steal him from the Cubs because not only would it steer the latter away from the SURE 1st place and a possible World Series appearance, but it would ALSO lower Perez's importance to Dodgers' rotation.  Konerko + Pacheco + Wright for Perez has a nice ring to it.  If Alvarez falters, Pacheco steps in as a 5th starter and bridges to Greg Miller who will be ready by 2006. Otherwise, he could be a BP man and maximize his velocity and break, making him even more effective-- see Burhle and Barcelo in 2000. Danny Wright also has a bright BP future, cheap too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Konerko + Pacheco + Wright for Perez has a nice ring to it.  If I were suicidal, that deal would put me over  In all seriousness, I think Konerko is going to really rebound. I don't know the behind the scenes in regards to Thomas, but if he is really getting in the way of things and taking off plays, etc, then I'd dump him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 First, I have to ask why is everyone so shocked? After KW said Maggs and Lee weren't going anywhere, I mentioned that Thomas and PK weren't named and with the LA ownership situation settled, if was very conceivable something could happen. Â McCourt said he was going to make splash. Wuould you consider acquiring Paul Konerko a splash? It's going to be Thomas, if anyone, imho. Â However, Thomas for Perez is nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baggio202 Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Konerko + Pacheco + Wright for Perez has a nice ring to it.  If I were suicidal, that deal would put me over  In all seriousness, I think Konerko is going to really rebound. I don't know the behind the scenes in regards to Thomas, but if he is really getting in the way of things and taking off plays, etc, then I'd dump him. even if he rebounds he aint worth 8.75 million...if we awere the yankees it wouldnt matter..but moving him and freeing up some cash could lead to another deal to help this team....replacing konerko's bat is alot easier than finding a middle infielder /cf or a real lead off hitter.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Bartman's my idol Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 I don't like the Frank for Perez deal, either, and I am not a big Frank fan, we could get more. But to play devil's advocate, most of us were hoping that Frank didn't pick up his option last year (true, we were hoping that we would spend his money if he didn't), so to get a player in return would be a bonus, then getting nothing if he opted for free agency. However, I really like the Seattle trade for Maggs, I would those three in a second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 First, I have to ask why is everyone so shocked? After KW said Maggs and Lee weren't going anywhere, I mentioned that Thomas and PK weren't named and with the LA ownership situation settled, if was very conceivable something could happen. McCourt said he was going to make splash. Wuould you consider acquiring Paul Konerko a splash? It's going to be Thomas, if anyone, imho.  However, Thomas for Perez is nuts. This was my take on the interview with KW also. It was who he didn't name as much as who he did name. No mention was made of Konerko or Thomas not being offered. However, KW has now said there was no offer for Frank and we still haven;t head that Paulie might not be going somewhere. I would still not be in favor of trading Konerko straight up for Perez. I don't care how enthralled people are with the lefty the fact remains he has had one decent year and Konerko is established. I think he is recovered from his foot problems and ready to rock 'n roll in '04. I would be happy to go into the season with the team we have rather than trade someone just for the sake of doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 In all honesty, I'd rather see Thomas dealt then Konerko. I got a feeling deep down, the reports are true and Thomas probably causes a lot of tension in the clubhouse.  I think Konerko will be back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Frank needs to rekindle his career? Does Levineline even watch baseball? That's right, he was the guy who said last May that Frank was through, and Konerko and Daubach should get all the playing time at 1B and DH. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Bruce Levine is an idiot. Ding, ding, ding, ding.. we have a winner here folks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Jim, I love you but I dissagree.      Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004      But since he met you at SoxFest, I think he you a lot more than me  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 But since he met you at SoxFest, I think he you a lot more than me  At least he talked to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 At least he talked to me  True!  My buddy had a hot date waiting for him, he didn't even want to attend the seminar!  Next year I'll drive, I'll have a little more control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafacosta Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 In all honesty, I'd rather see Thomas dealt then Konerko. I got a feeling deep down, the reports are true and Thomas probably causes a lot of tension in the clubhouse.  I think Konerko will be back. PK will make 8.5 millions in 2004 and nobody knows if he will be hitting well or will start the year like last year.  Frank will make 5 millions and he can hit IMO he will have a great season.  PK for Odalis, in a hurry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 PK for Odalis, in a hurry  The Dodgers aren't that stupid.  The only way they'd even THINK about acquiring Konerko for Perez is if they get Maddux.  Without a couple of prospects thrown in, Sox won't dumb Konerko. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillieHarris2 Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 I would rather see paul get traded hes not a consistent guy like Frank. Frank has proven that he can consistently draw walks, hit for power, and hit for average which is way better then what Konerko brings to the table. PK's hcareer avg. is only .279 compared to Franks career avg. of .310. Thats what i thought trading pk would be a much better idea then trading Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 I would rather see paul get traded hes not a consistent guy like Frank. Frank has proven that he can consistently draw walks, hit for power, and hit for average which is way better then what Konerko brings to the table. PK's hcareer avg. is only .279 compared to Franks career avg. of .310. Thats what i thought trading pk would be a much better idea then trading Frank. Plus, Konerko has still not yet had a FULL season of consistancy. He's always hit well in the first half and not hit well in the second. (or vise versa) Frank as shown in the past that he can be consistant all year. That's a big difference for maybe a playoff/division run when one is struggling alot and one who is still decent in hitting the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 See, now that's where I agree. By trading Paulie for OP, we effectively save 12 Mill over 2 years-- history has shown that just a coupla extra Mill spent can go a long way toward putting a team over the top in an extremely close 3-way race. Let alone 6 per.  We also wash our hands of an overrated fielder, a base-clogging GIDP machine, a mental case AND we don't have to worry about Hipgate anymore.  Even given Paulie's upside (900 OPS/115 RBI), because of the above baggage, paying him 8.5 Mill per, 1/8th of the entire budget, is not wise.  Knowing that getting Maddux was a pipe dream (not that I advocate paying 18 over 2 years or whatever Bore-Us is bluffing for these days for a 38-year-old), we should pray that Dodgers steal him from the Cubs because not only would it steer the latter away from the SURE 1st place and a possible World Series appearance, but it would ALSO lower Perez's importance to Dodgers' rotation.  Konerko + Pacheco + Wright for Perez has a nice ring to it.  If Alvarez falters, Pacheco steps in as a 5th starter and bridges to Greg Miller who will be ready by 2006. Otherwise, he could be a BP man and maximize his velocity and break, making him even more effective-- see Burhle and Barcelo in 2000. Danny Wright also has a bright BP future, cheap too. Brando, what are you thinking my man? You get some good ideas, but all that for Perez? Wright will be a solid bullpen guy. I would love to see what Pacheco can do. Konerko I could live with, but not those two guys plus Konerko. Not even one of them plus Konerko. Would you make that deal just to get rid of Paulie's salary? If that is what you are thinking then I can understand it a bit. That is just a bit too much for OP if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Brando, what are you thinking my man? You get some good ideas, but all that for Perez? Wright will be a solid bullpen guy. I would love to see what Pacheco can do. Konerko I could live with, but not those two guys plus Konerko. Not even one of them plus Konerko. Would you make that deal just to get rid of Paulie's salary? If that is what you are thinking then I can understand it a bit. That is just a bit too much for OP if you ask me. This is one of the rare times I agree with you SSI Maybe just konerko and wright (if that) for perez should do it. I don't think we have to move pacheco too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Brando, what are you thinking my man? You get some good ideas, but all that for Perez?  All what for Perez? Pacheco is an old NOBODY as far as Dodgers are conerned and Wright is 26 and absolutely STUNK last year, no velocity, s***ty curveball, deer-in-the-headlights look....probably injury related but who is to say he ever recovers. Dodgers aren't prescient.  Meanwhile, Perez as Baggs mentioned had excellent peripherals even when he stunk last year, leading me to believe his ERA was a bit flukey. His tools are beyond doubt. He is a risk, and I will never trade Frank for him.....but by no means is he a bum.  Wright will be a solid bullpen guy. I would love to see what Pacheco can do.  Just be f***in' happy Dodgers don't ask for Reed and Cotts. I mean....here we are DEMANDING they give up both Jackson AND Miller AND Mota in every other trade proposal, but godforbid should anyone mention a couple of NOBODIES (as far as they rest of baseball is concerned) like Wright and Pacheco and Sox fans cry foul.  . Would you make that deal just to get rid of Paulie's salary? If that is what you are thinking then I can understand it a bit. That is just a bit too much for OP if you ask me  Let's get something straight here:  --Paul Konerko was arguably THE worst everyday player in MLB last year. --He is owed 17 Mill over the next 2 years. --The Hip  We need pitching. Counting on Shownweiss to be your 4th starter is a recipe for disaster.  Worst case scenario: Gload can put up 750 OPS, with good D and solid speed for 300K....Randall Simon will be dirt cheap as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Brando, what are you thinking my man? You get some good ideas, but all that for Perez? Wright will be a solid bullpen guy. I would love to see what Pacheco can do. Konerko I could live with, but not those two guys plus Konerko. Not even one of them plus Konerko. Would you make that deal just to get rid of Paulie's salary? If that is what you are thinking then I can understand it a bit. That is just a bit too much for OP if you ask me. What Brando's thinking is(and my thinking as well) is that the Dodgers look at Konerko's $8 mill and his .235 18 65 season last year and say how do we know he is not going to duplicate that next year? It's the same thing we as Sox fans are doing to Odalis Perez. We look at his 2003 season, see 10-12 with a 4.52 ERA and hear he is bad in the clubhouse and say we don't want that s***. Â How do we know that Konerko doesn't revert back to his 02 form only he maintains that throughout the whole year and has an awesome season, putting up a .320 35 120 campaign, and Odalis Perez has an awesome year, only a little better then 02, and goes, say, 18-7 with a 2.85 ERA and a WHIP of 1.05....or maybe both remain in their 03 form and are s***ty again in 04. Maybe one is better then the other, or maybe they hit a happy medium. Who knows. Â IMO, Odalis Perez and Paul Konerko are in the same boat, that is, both are coming off of s***ty years, both are overpaid in some fashion, and both are surplus of their respective team's depth at the position. Â That being said, I think Perez is better then Konerko and has more upside then Konerko and also makes less, making a Konerko for Perez deal slightly favoring us, enough as to where LA would turn it down. We give them a decent prospect....maybe Diaz, maybe Pacheco, maybe Rauch....and they accept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 I forgot to mention that I would give Konerko away for FREE. Â Then I'd spend that 17 Mill on Maddux and be ecstatic. Â But that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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